Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

The United Kingdom is rotting from the southeast. The idea of a Kingdom is medieval let alone a united one. I'll never support a UK model of governance ever.

[life on mars]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

Devolution in my humble opinion is a waste of Welsh tax payers money that just creates another layer of bureaucracy and cost .

I can think of better ways of spending £58m each year , if they get they there way and add another 20 AM's with support costs it will rise again and only 46.6% of the population vote for the leaders we have ?

This article is from 2013

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cost-running-assembly-soars-13m-2224322

[WJ99mobile]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

This 100%, completely agree. Agree with every single point, how a government can make another countries taxpayer pay for its own rail network is frankly absurd but people just accept it and complain we are too weak, poor etc. The furlough disaster in 2020 when Wales was rejected an extension only for it to be put in place a week later when England needed it showed exactly the pecking order of the UK, regardless if Wales pays in more/less tax, Wales should be able to access Welsh taxpayers funds, especially in the middle of a pandemic.

Thinly veiled ‘I didn’t support Brexit’

[NYCBlue]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

Devolution in my humble opinion is a waste of Welsh tax payers money that just creates another layer of bureaucracy and cost .

I can think of better ways of spending £58m each year , if they get they there way and add another 20 AM's with support costs it will rise again and only 46.6% of the population vote for the leaders we have ?

This article is from 2013

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...rs-13m-2224322

Creates another level of bureaucracy? Aren't you forgetting something? It replaces an incompetent one with a successful one.

[NYCBlue]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

Well thats one take on it I suppose! I don't see how you can accuse Wales of having too many people afraid to do anything when we voted to leave the EU which quite clearly was quite a radical thing to do - and will result in a lot more powers for the senedd too as in devolved areas, Wales will gain what Brussels had. Farming for example.

As one of Western Europe's poorer areas we would get some EU invetsmebt but it would absolutely pale into insignificance compared to UK finding, which people never seem to mention btw.

Wales has public expenditure of 11,000 per head. England is £9,600. The sad reality is we spend far more than we earn, so leaving the UK and joining the EU absolutely would not deliver what you say and it most definitely is not a 'no brainer'

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...-november-2020

This just supports my original argument. They just went along with what the English were doing. Scotland didn't.

As for public expenditure, of course it's higher in Wales than in England. England is where all the money is. If Wales became part of the world's second-largest GDP, expenditure becomes investment.

[JamesWales]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

the economic arguments against independence for Wales would have applied equally, if not more so to Ireland 100 years ago.
they were the poorest part of the UK, today they are richer than the UK.
if they had not become independent they would prit still be the poorest part of the UK.

the additional spend Wales gets compared to the rest of the UK is because we are older, poorer and in worse health. but none of that money is going to change that. only infrastructure and transformational spending will achieve that and Wales are always a forgotten child when it comes to that.

That is a valid point about Ireland. However it took Ireland about 80 years to overtake the UK. So maybe it will benefit out great great great grandkids.

I'm not anti devolution at all. I think English regions should get more powers too, but I think the economic arguments for independence are very weak. Whatever they are however, it most definitely is not a 'no brainer' in any direction of argument.

[Rjk]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

That is a valid point about Ireland. However it took Ireland about 80 years to overtake the UK. So maybe it will benefit out great great great grandkids.

I'm not anti devolution at all. I think English regions should get more powers too, but I think the economic arguments for independence are very weak. Whatever they are however, it most definitely is not a 'no brainer' in any direction of argument.

yes it took 80 years to overtake the UK.

Wales has been a poor relation of England since it fell into English control what 7 or 8 hundred years ago. and it always will be.

[JamesWales]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

yes it took 80 years to overtake the UK.

Wales has been a poor relation of England since it fell into English control what 7 or 8 hundred years ago. and it always will be.

I don't believe it always will be. Would help if we didn't elect politicians who are happy with endless queues and a two lane motorway into our country of course.

[Rjk]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

I don't believe it always will be. Would help if we didn't elect politicians who are happy with endless queues and a two lane motorway into our country of course.

I'm sure the local politicians would love there to be no queues anywhere, but we only have a small amount of money available for infrastructure projects and solving the M4 congestion has a really poor payback.
London meanwhile runs multiple multi Billion pound projects concurrently

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

I don't believe it always will be. Would help if we didn't elect politicians who are happy with endless queues and a two lane motorway into our country of course.

It's difficult to practice what you preach isn't it Mr. J? Acceptance is a bitch!

[JamesWales]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

It's difficult to practice what you preach isn't it Mr. J? Acceptance is a bitch!

I fully accept it! I'm not trying to overturn the last senedd election result.

I do think we have had an elected government in Wales for 23 years though (and I've had many dealings with them) and they should take some responsibility for the state of Wales, both good and bad.

[az city]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

That is a valid point about Ireland. However it took Ireland about 80 years to overtake the UK. So maybe it will benefit out great great great grandkids.

I'm not anti devolution at all. I think English regions should get more powers too, but I think the economic arguments for independence are very weak. Whatever they are however, it most definitely is not a 'no brainer' in any direction of argument.

80 years? Come off it. Fantasy again. Ireland joined the EU in 1974 I believe. There's a pretty decent case to be made that 1974 would be the date on which Ireland's economy started to speed up to eventually zoom past jolly old England's.

It seems a perfect role model for Wales. Facing an economic catastrophe conjoined with Brexit England versus independence within the EU is no dilemma. Choosing the latter is a no brainer.

[Wozza16]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

Anti devolution/independence people say the Welsh economy is too weak, poor, lacking any meaningful industry to go it alone or have more devolution etc. If that is true then what the hell is the point of being in this 'great' union for the past 500 years?

Being in the UK has hardly got us into such a powerful and affluent position that we would be crazy to at least look and consider any other options. More devolution for me, to at least match Scotland and N.I, and urgently.

[JamesWales]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

80 years? Come off it. Fantasy again. Ireland joined the EU in 1974 I believe. There's a pretty decent case to be made that 1974 would be the date on which Ireland's economy started to speed up to eventually zoom past jolly old England's.

It seems a perfect role model for Wales. Facing an economic catastrophe conjoined with Brexit England versus independence within the EU is no dilemma. Choosing the latter is a no brainer.

You are a bizarre man a sometimes and a bit of a gaslighter tbh. How can you label what I said 'fantasy' when the Irish free state was created in 1922 and their GDP per capita overtook the UK in the mid 1990s? By almost any definition going what I said is correct.

And then you go on to use hyperbolic language like 'catastrophe' (with zero evidence) and present a solution that is a 'no brainer' as if there is universal agreement that Wales would be wealthier under independence, which there certainly isn't.

Mad.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Devolution Wales v Scotland/NI

You are a bizarre man a sometimes and a bit of a gaslighter tbh. How can you label what I said 'fantasy' when the Irish free state was created in 1922 and their GDP per capita overtook the UK in the mid 1990s? By almost any definition going what I said is correct.

And then you go on to use hyperbolic language like 'catastrophe' (with zero evidence) and present a solution that is a 'no brainer' as if there is universal agreement that Wales would be wealthier under independence, which there certainly isn't.

Mad.

Out of interest, how much does the UK's superior GDP help Wales? You could also ask the same question of similar areas in England. Does the UK's large economy help all parts of the UK or does it mainly help those more affluent areas, rivers flowing into the sea etc.