Covid Rules Collapsing

[blue matt]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

The statistics are damning for the UK compared to nearly all other Western European democracies and there are still hundreds of people dying every day from Covid and yet we get rubbish about cancer deaths from Government apologists :facepalm:

Deaths from cancer are, nearly always, unavoidable, deaths from any contagious disease are not, your chances of not catching a potentially deadly virus are lessened by taking realistic precautions, but the "it's time to move on" mob talk as if anyone advocating that wants us back in a full lockdown and all they're doing really is showing their I'm all right Jack attitude.

I posted about cancer deaths ( which were nearly avoidable before covid, now I am not sure, with doctors appointments hard to get, and hospital appointments even harder, mainly due to departments being closed / not seeing the same amount of patients, are these the restrictions people want to keep long term ? ? a doctors appointment over the phone ? :facepalm:? ) to put the covid figures into perspective ( it appears the people who are happy to stay indoors moaning about the government have little sense of perspective about covid now, as its a great tool to bash the government with :facepalm:)

not sure its the " I'm alright jack attitude " either, at some point we need to move on with life, will we always be in fear of another variant arriving, so never get back to pre C19 days, personally I dont want that for myself or my girls

if you want to stay home, stay home, if you want to wear a face mask, wear a face mask, you dont need the government to tell you to do it, personally, I wear a face mask In shops and when walking into cafes, why, because it might mean a elderly person feels more comfortable ( though they seem to be the worse at wearing them now ), but then I sit down with my coffee and I take the mask off, the table next to me ( under 1M away ) have done the same, so its all a bit of a farce now, I go to the cinema, sat next to a stranger with strangers in front and behind me for 2 hours, but guess who, we all know the risks now

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

This place has become much more political ( anything non-football is quickly turned into a political post , it never used to be like that ), I often pop on before I head out for work, one day soon I expect to see a post " its my daughters wedding day today and its lashing down, Boris should have acted sooner / Well Boris had a garden party blah blah blah "

It's funny, the overwhelming majority of this thread is a debate between those who welcome the lifting of restrictions and those who are more cautious. There are a few passing references to the underlying politics of the timing of the announcement.

I have seen a few threads recently which weren't overly political until you chipped in with something along the lines of "I'm going out on a limb here, all of the above is the Tories fault, mostly Boris but past tories should also be blamed".

Perhaps the physician could heal himself on such matters.

[blue matt]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

It's funny, the overwhelming majority of this thread is a debate between those who welcome the lifting of restrictions and those who are more cautious. There are a few passing references to the underlying politics of the timing of the announcement.

I have seen a few threads recently which weren't overly political until you chipped in with something along the lines of "I'm going out on a limb here, all of the above is the Tories fault, mostly Boris but past tories should also be blamed".

Perhaps the physician could heal himself on such matters.

the 3rd post is political , but yes the early posts were a discussion without the political interference ( though it was always going to happen )

my occasional posts about " blaming Boris " are purely a bit of a joke, lighthearted humour, nothing more, nothing less

[Hilts]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

This place has become much more political ( anything non-football is quickly turned into a political post , it never used to be like that ), I often pop on before I head out for work, one day soon I expect to see a post " its my daughters wedding day today and its lashing down, Boris should have acted sooner / Well Boris had a garden party blah blah blah "

Matt what do you expect? Virtually every morning theres a Tory MP giving interviews trying to defend Boris over something.

No point going over old ground with the endless list of issues. Even within his party plenty want him gone.

This messageboard is a reflection of the street.

Keep defending him all you like. Youd probably do youself a favour not getting all wound up with the criticism though because its deserved and he needs to go.

[TWGL1]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

I agreed back in March 2020 and was determined not to be too critical of the UK Government, but that was before the "libertarian" Government we have started making decisions based on party politics rather than public health and, as yesterday showed, they still are doing that.

The statistics are damning for the UK compared to nearly all other Western European democracies and there are still hundreds of people dying every day from Covid and yet we get rubbish about cancer deaths from Government apologists :facepalm:

Deaths from cancer are, nearly always, unavoidable, deaths from any contagious disease are not, your chances of not catching a potentially deadly virus are lessened by taking realistic precautions, but the "it's time to move on" mob talk as if anyone advocating that wants us back in a full lockdown and all they're doing really is showing their I'm all right Jack attitude.

The obsession with just one virus is the problem though , and it seems to me that regardless of lockdowns , masks, social distancing and arbitrary rules it makes little or no difference. I know people who have been terrified of Covid , wore masks , stayed in doors and still caught it. Nearly 40m people in the Uk have tested positive, at some stage

Apparently 90% of Welsh people have antibodies.

Covid was even downgraded as a High Consequence Infectious Disease in March 2020, so on that basis there are more severe viruses is circulation which nobody even thinks about and we carry on as normal in respect of the majority of them.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid

.

[blue matt]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

The obsession with just one virus is the problem though , and it seems to me that regardless of lockdowns , masks, social distancing and arbitrary rules it makes little or no difference. I know people who have been terrified of Covid , wore masks , stayed in doors and still caught it. Nearly 40m people in the Uk have tested positive, at some stage

Apparently 90% of Welsh people have antibodies.


.

:thumbup:

This is a great point, even with face masks etc etc, it still spread, the only way to stop C19 is to have a full lockdown, as soon as things slightly opened up, the virus spread, look at Australia for proof of that, lockdown for long periods of time, as soon as they opened up, it spread ( they just brought themselves time and get jabs in arms )

We have all had the opportunity for the 3 jabs, this is as good as it gets, but its your choice, if you feel happy and safer staying in, stay in

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

The obsession with just one virus is the problem though , and it seems to me that regardless of lockdowns , masks, social distancing and arbitrary rules it makes little or no difference. I know people who have been terrified of Covid , wore masks , stayed in doors and still caught it. Nearly 40m people in the Uk have tested positive, at some stage

Apparently 90% of Welsh people have antibodies.

Covid was even downgraded as a High Consequence Infectious Disease in March 2020, so on that basis there are more severe viruses is circulation which nobody even thinks about and we carry on as normal in respect of the majority of them.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid

.

You say 40 million people have had it (and over 170k have died)? What are the comparable figures for the 16 diseases currently listed as HCIDs, (Ebola, SARS, MERS, monkeypox, plague and four severe strains of bird flu)?

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

I often pop on before I head out for work, one day soon I expect to see a post " its my daughters wedding day today and its lashing down, Boris should have acted sooner / Well Boris had a garden party blah blah blah "

In fairness, that’s simply because you’re an idiot.

[JamesWales]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

I agreed back in March 2020 and was determined not to be too critical of the UK Government, but that was before the "libertarian" Government we have started making decisions based on party politics rather than public health and, as yesterday showed, they still are doing that.

The statistics are damning for the UK compared to nearly all other Western European democracies and there are still hundreds of people dying every day from Covid and yet we get rubbish about cancer deaths from Government apologists :facepalm:

Deaths from cancer are, nearly always, unavoidable, deaths from any contagious disease are not, your chances of not catching a potentially deadly virus are lessened by taking realistic precautions, but the "it's time to move on" mob talk as if anyone advocating that wants us back in a full lockdown and all they're doing really is showing their I'm all right Jack attitude.

This is the problem though TOBW, what you say isn't correct. You may want them to be politically, but they aren't. I'll repeat them again:

On deaths; as of yesterday the UK is 31st in the world per capita for Covid deaths. We are 23rd in Europe. And it's worth noting that Covid probably hit us sooner than most in Europe

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?tab=table&zoomToSelection=true&time=2022-02-02..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=total_cases&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false&country=IND~USA~GBR~CAN~DEU~FRA

On vaccines; whilst the vaccine rollout is harder to come to a definitive opinion on, it is generally recognised that in terms of development and roll out we are world-leading. Others have caught up, but as is generally recognised, speed matters in these things, and the percentage of our population booster vaccinated is even now a good 10% above the EU average.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?tab=table&zoomToSelection=true&time=2022-02-02..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=total_cases&Metric=Vaccine+booster+doses&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false&country=IND~USA~GBR~CAN~DEU~FRA

On economic support; again, this is harder still to compare, but I see very little evidence that the UK has underperformed here. At the very least we have spent £199bn on supporting peoples jobs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52663523

And thats not mentioning the speed of coming out of restrictions, or economic growth or numerous other factors to take into account.

No one should give the UK Govt, or the Welsh Govt, or any Govt a free pass, and ALL have made mistakes, but it's important to look at the data and come to a rounded conclusion, rather than starting with this partisan party-political position and then skew the facts to make it fit that.

[blue matt]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

In fairness, that’s simply because you’re an idiot.

as always, thanks for your razor wit reply to the discussion

[TWGL1]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

You say 40 million people have had it (and over 170k have died)? What are the comparable figures for the 16 diseases currently listed as HCIDs, (Ebola, SARS, MERS, monkeypox, plague and four severe strains of bird flu)?

The figures for the HCID’ s above as far as I know are not mass tested and any death recorded is not within 28 days of a positive test.

Let’s not forget that even before vaccination take up Covid had a 99.5% survival rate.

[lardy]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

The obsession with just one virus is the problem though , and it seems to me that regardless of lockdowns , masks, social distancing and arbitrary rules it makes little or no difference. I know people who have been terrified of Covid , wore masks , stayed in doors and still caught it. Nearly 40m people in the Uk have tested positive, at some stage

Apparently 90% of Welsh people have antibodies.

Covid was even downgraded as a High Consequence Infectious Disease in March 2020, so on that basis there are more severe viruses is circulation which nobody even thinks about and we carry on as normal in respect of the majority of them.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid

.

Always nice to see the old favourites resurfacing. I've always had a soft spot for the infectious diseases one because it sounds so convincing. Why else would the government downgrade it, right?

But the reason was that anyone infected with a virus/disease on that list (ebola, monkeypox, etc) had to go to a specific treatment centre which would have soon been overwhelmed, so downgrading it meant that ordinary hospitals could treat it.

[TWGL1]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Always nice to see the old favourites resurfacing. I've always had a soft spot for the infectious diseases one because it sounds so convincing. Why else would the government downgrade it, right?

But the reason was that anyone infected with a virus/disease on that list (ebola, monkeypox, etc) had to go to a specific treatment centre which would have soon been overwhelmed, so downgrading it meant that ordinary hospitals could treat it.

So you don’t think that Covid has overwhelmed the NHS , and they don’t have specific Covid wards making bed capacity reduced ?

[lardy]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

So you don’t think that Covid has overwhelmed the NHS , and they don’t have specific Covid wards making bed capacity reduced ?

What point are you trying to make here? If it hadn't been downgraded, that would have been much worse!

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

This is the problem though TOBW, what you say isn't correct. You may want them to be politically, but they aren't. I'll repeat them again:

On deaths; as of yesterday the UK is 31st in the world per capita for Covid deaths. We are 23rd in Europe. And it's worth noting that Covid probably hit us sooner than most in Europe

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?tab=table&zoomToSelection=true&time=2022-02-02..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=total_cases&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false&country=IND~USA~GBR~CAN~DEU~FRA

On vaccines; whilst the vaccine rollout is harder to come to a definitive opinion on, it is generally recognised that in terms of development and roll out we are world-leading. Others have caught up, but as is generally recognised, speed matters in these things, and the percentage of our population booster vaccinated is even now a good 10% above the EU average.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?tab=table&zoomToSelection=true&time=2022-02-02..latest&facet=none&pickerSort=desc&pickerMetric=total_cases&Metric=Vaccine+booster+doses&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false&country=IND~USA~GBR~CAN~DEU~FRA

On economic support; again, this is harder still to compare, but I see very little evidence that the UK has underperformed here. At the very least we have spent £199bn on supporting peoples jobs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52663523

And thats not mentioning the speed of coming out of restrictions, or economic growth or numerous other factors to take into account.

No one should give the UK Govt, or the Welsh Govt, or any Govt a free pass, and ALL have made mistakes, but it's important to look at the data and come to a rounded conclusion, rather than starting with this partisan party-political position and then skew the facts to make it fit that.

Ah statistics. From the list you provided the UK is 21st in Europe (Georgia and Armenia are in Asia, this isn't UEFA), two countries listed in that are Gibraltar and San Marino. The overwhelming majority of the rest are in Eastern Europe.

Here's my statistic based on the same evidence.

Apart from Italy and Belgium, the UK has the highest number of deaths per capita of the high income countries of Western Europe and Scandanavia. It's also worth noting that Covid probably hit Italy sooner than the UK.