Covid Rules Collapsing

[JamesWales]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

The argument is about whether Covid mitigations have any effect. It has nothing to do with borders.

The difference between the UK and NZ on Covid is that NZ's mitigation measures have been extreme but very effective.

Mate NZ is hundreds of miles away from its nearest border. We have a free market agreement with countries 25 miles away. ****sake. Mad.

[az city]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Mate NZ is hundreds of miles away from its nearest border. We have a free market agreement with countries 25 miles away. ****sake. Mad.

Irrelevant. Idiotic.

[JamesWales]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Irrelevant. Idiotic.

Well it's not is it. How many lorries, drivers, planes, deliveries enter NZ each day Vs the UK?

Whether it's correct or not, NZ has adopted a zero covid strategy. No other western countries have, apart perhaps for large periods Australia. Obviously it's just a massive coincidence that these are countries with no land borders and hundreds of miles from anywhere else.

Again, we can debate whether it's the right policy or not but quite obviously it's easier for NZ to implement it than the UK or Germany or France or Canada or almost anywhere else. To ignore that is to ignore geography.

[TWGL1]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Well it's not is it. How many lorries, drivers, planes, deliveries enter NZ each day Vs the UK?

Whether it's correct or not, NZ has adopted a zero covid strategy. No other western countries have, apart perhaps for large periods Australia. Obviously it's just a massive coincidence that these are countries with no land borders and hundreds of miles from anywhere else.

Again, we can debate whether it's the right policy or not but quite obviously it's easier for NZ to implement it than the UK or Germany or France or Canada or almost anywhere else. To ignore that is to ignore geography.

New Zealand has only just opened its borders though ,and it only has a small population, will be interesting to revisit the statistics in a few months , and I’m led to believe they only include “of Covid” in their statistics not “with Covid”

Florida with its population full of retired people opted for a no restriction policy and the statistics are not much different to states who applied authoritarian measures

[JamesWales]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Wales latest..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-60332835

[delmbox]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Again, we can debate whether it's the right policy or not but quite obviously it's easier for NZ to implement it than the UK or Germany or France or Canada or almost anywhere else. To ignore that is to ignore geography.

I hate to say it but JamesWales is right about this.

I feel dirty

[JamesWales]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

I hate to say it but JamesWales is right about this.

I feel dirty

Second time this month you've agreed with me now. Do you want my number?

[delmbox]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Second time this month you've agreed with me now. Do you want my number?

Give it to me one agreed post at a time, if we get to the full number I think it's meant to be

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

I hate to say it but JamesWales is right about this.

I feel dirty

So you’re agreeing that if the UK Government was in charge of New Zealand over the past two years and the New Zealand Government in charge here, the total deaths figures in each country would be the same as they are now? James Wales is right to say there are advantages that New Zealand has over us when it comes to coping with a pandemic, but I don’t believe they are the sole reason for the vast difference in numbers of deaths in the two countries.

[delmbox]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

So you’re agreeing that if the UK Government was in charge of New Zealand over the past two years and the New Zealand Government in charge here, the total deaths figures in each country would be the same as they are now? James Wales is right to say there are advantages that New Zealand has over us when it comes to coping with a pandemic, but I don’t believe they are the sole reason for the vast difference in numbers of deaths in the two countries.

No not at all, I think that New Zealand have a competent Government and a leader who actually gives a shit about her people whereas the Covid response here has been a disastrous mix of incompetence and fraud. The bit I agree with is that it's easier to control the amount of people in and out of New Zealand because we're not only a lot closer to our neighbours but also a far busier international hub

[lardy]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

For the benefit of those who don't visit the politics boards, this is the car crash thread

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.ph...nshuman-babies

We've reached the stage where Organ is claiming that the covid virus, in fact any virus, doesn't actually exist.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

So you’re agreeing that if the UK Government was in charge of New Zealand over the past two years and the New Zealand Government in charge here, the total deaths figures in each country would be the same as they are now? James Wales is right to say there are advantages that New Zealand has over us when it comes to coping with a pandemic, but I don’t believe they are the sole reason for the vast difference in numbers of deaths in the two countries.

I think you have to factor in chronology as well as geography when assessing the import and circulation of the virus in the UK. For some reason the UK closed its borders in the first half of 2020 three months after countries such as Germany. A tad ironic using JamesWales's parlance given that Germany was in the continental centre of the EU single market and Schengen and we had just taken back control of ours after decades of EU hegemony.

Similarly when Delta first appeared on the Indian sub-continent we red listed Bangladesh and Pakistan but did not shut our borders to India for another two weeks. This was despite India having higher percentage of cases at the time we embargoed the other countries. Of course the impending visit of Boris Johnson (subsequently cancelled) was in no way a contributory factor to that decision.

[goats]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

No not at all, I think that New Zealand have a competent Government and a leader who actually gives a shit about her people whereas the Covid response here has been a disastrous mix of incompetence and fraud. The bit I agree with is that it's easier to control the amount of people in and out of New Zealand because we're not only a lot closer to our neighbours but also a far busier international hub

Clearly the Tories care more about the economic issues/money etc than NZ did. The furlough was good but we will be paying for it for years to come. Got a few mates in NZ who tell me things aren’t too great as it’s a country that relies heavily on tourism and no one’s been there for almost 2 years….as well as being very remote it has a small population to take care of also, just 5 million.

[az city]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Just to clarify (mainly, it appears, for Jimbo's sake).

TWGL1: "... it seems to me that regardless of lockdowns , masks, social distancing and arbitrary rules it makes little or no difference."

Az City: "... that's weapons grade bollocks."

TWGL1 asks for evidence of mitigation strategies making a difference.

Az City: China and its extreme lockdowns suppressing the virus.

Few different posters: Don't believe Chinese statistics.

Az City: Compare NZ with UK.

So, to summarize for the slow ones at the back (Jimbo), the argument is whether mitigation strategies for Covid 19 have made any difference. If you take the cases of NZ (instituted swift and comprehensive lockdown including an almost complete ban on travel) and the UK (did not have such stringent measures), I think it's fairly obvious that measures to mitigate the spread of the virus DO work.

Is it easier for NZ to do what it did compared with the UK because of its physical geography? Probably but that's irrelevant (Jimbo).

[JamesWales]

Re: Covid Rules Collapsing

Just to clarify (mainly, it appears, for Jimbo's sake).

TWGL1: "... it seems to me that regardless of lockdowns , masks, social distancing and arbitrary rules it makes little or no difference."

Az City: "... that's weapons grade bollocks."

TWGL1 asks for evidence of mitigation strategies making a difference.

Az City: China and its extreme lockdowns suppressing the virus.

Few different posters: Don't believe Chinese statistics.

Az City: Compare NZ with UK.

So, to summarize for the slow ones at the back (Jimbo), the argument is whether mitigation strategies for Covid 19 have made any difference. If you take the cases of NZ (instituted swift and comprehensive lockdown including an almost complete ban on travel) and the UK (did not have such stringent measures), I think it's fairly obvious that measures to mitigate the spread of the virus DO work.

Is it easier for NZ to do what it did compared with the UK because of its physical geography? Probably but that's irrelevant (Jimbo).

I see the sun has risen in Arizona and the lord has awoken..

You miss my point. No one doubts that with hindsight the UK locked down too late initially - that was probably the big covid error that no one really disputes.

My point is that if any country could adopt a 'zero covid' strategy it is New Zealand. It simply wouldn't have worked almost anywhere else given the amount it was already spreading in Europe, given europes open borders given the UKs open borders, given the extent of international travel in the UK. How many Brits had travelled to Italy in early March 2021 compared to how many kiwis?

Even the European countries that perhaps are comparable to NZ demographically such as Norway (who also handled the pandemic very well) still have a detah rate more than ten times greater than NZ.

The point isnt whether NZ's policies reduced deaths and the spread of Covid, because it undoubtedly did, the point is that NZ could adopt those policies whereas most other countries realistically could not, without extraordinary disruptions to supply chains, the economy, etc etc.

Basically it's not a coincidence that the only country to adopt this method is New Zealand.