Brave Lady

[blue matt]

Re: Brave Lady

I agree with most of that, but not all of 'us' share what you call 'our values' either. There have been a few reports in the last few days of Ukranian neo-Nazi groups recruiting volunteer fighters in the UK, and a raft of European and American far right nationalists (some of them white supremacists) piling in to Ukraine. Russia is in the wrong and Russia is the aggressor this time, but this is not the simplistic goodies v baddies conflict that much of the media and political caste are presenting.

.

We all know that the Ukraine ( and a fair few countries in that region ) have a issue with the far-right , the AZOV battalion was formed from them, we know that, its not a secret

BUT lets be honest here, Russia are the baddies ( and you have acknowledged that ), they have invaded a country and are bombing crap out of residential area's, they are murdering people, its a fairly simple thing to understand, one country invades another and continues to commit war crimes / bombing and shelling residential areas without a second thought for civilian life, that country are the baddies, the Ukrainian civilians ( many who are decent people ) Have little say on who is turning up to try and defend them ( and we have seen, they need defending ), so surely the goodies ( Ukrainian civilians ) can't be responsible for that

[Raymond Holt]

Re: Brave Lady

Firmly back on topic now; any journalist willing to defy a government to expose the truth is a hero. Imagine what would happen to her if she exposed Russia's war crimes. A brutal authoritarian state like Russia would force her into hiding no doubt, then the first chance it got it would lock her in a maximum security prison for life. Oh wait, that's us with Julian Assange.

[Tuerto]

Re: Brave Lady

I agree with most of that, but not all of 'us' share what you call 'our values' either. There have been a few reports in the last few days of Ukranian neo-Nazi groups recruiting volunteer fighters in the UK, and a raft of European and American far right nationalists (some of them white supremacists) piling in to Ukraine. Russia is in the wrong and Russia is the aggressor this time, but this is not the simplistic goodies v baddies conflict that much of the media and political caste are presenting.

It also exposes new depths of hypocrisy by the authorities. Celtic are fined by FIFA for their fans displaying Palestinian flags. No one will be fined for showing Ukranian flags anywhere. We have bucket collections for Ukraine (quite rightly) but no public/press/political outcry about Yemen where the death toll is massively higher. And our Prime Minister flies into Saudi Arabia to smooch with the regime in the middle of a new state bloodbath of executions (including those convicted after torture, as children, for political or religious opposition and for 'deviant' beliefs). If 'our values' also includes Boris Johnson and his gang then include me out!

However, from what I have seen and read I would happily endorse and support the values of Marina Ovsyannikova. I hope she gets some protection from the scale of international media and social media coverage of her brave action.

Well said. The other big problem is that the West will arm these Nazi-Extremist groups, as well as the Ukrainian Army, who will have no problem fighting alongside the Fascists. Arming Extremists does not work out well, as History shows us.

[Rjk]

Re: Brave Lady

Firmly back on topic now; any journalist willing to defy a government to expose the truth is a hero. Imagine what would happen to her if she exposed Russia's war crimes. A brutal authoritarian state like Russia would force her into hiding no doubt, then the first chance it got it would lock her in a maximum security prison for life. Oh wait, that's us with Julian Assange.

we aren't trying to lock up assange are we?
and to compare that to what Russia does to journalists is frankly ridiculous.
dozens of journalists have been murdered for daring to question the Putin regime

[jon1959]

Re: Brave Lady

we aren't trying to lock up assange are we?

Not trying - no. The trying stage is over.

He's pretty securely locked up in Belmarsh prison and facing extradition to the USA where they plan to lock him up again and throw away the keys. For industrial scale whistle blowing.

If only he had concentrated on exposing the crimes and lies of Putin he would have been given a peerage not a small cell.

But true of course that journalists in Russia (or Mexico etc) who offend the regime risk worse than imprisonment.

[NYCBlue]

Re: Brave Lady

In 2014 there was a democratically elected leader who was pro Russian who was then ousted in an uprising which was driven by the west via social media and backed by neo - nazi Ukrainian groups. It’s a long and complicated history between the two nations , who were the same country 33 years ago.

Have a look a Oliver Stones documentary which was produced in 2016

What do you think we were doing in Afghanistan, Iraq ,and Syria for balance ?

There is a wealth if information out there if you’re prepared to look.

He was ousted by the Ukrainian government after a people's revolution against him being a puppet of Putin. (he now resides in Russia) There was no military action. (I'm not suggesting outside forces had nothing to with it) but since then two democratic elections have taken place. Are you suggesting that the people of Ukraine (and Russia for that matter) prefer authoritarian governments as opposed to living in a democracy? And that the will of people to govern themselves is a result of western disinformation? People prefer democracy to tyranny.

[Raymond Holt]

Re: Brave Lady

we aren't trying to lock up assange are we?
and to compare that to what Russia does to journalists is frankly ridiculous.
dozens of journalists have been murdered for daring to question the Putin regime

He's effectively been imprisoned in London for 10 years. 7 in the Ecuadorian embassy, where conversations with his lawyer were spied on by the CIA. He's been in Belmarsh for almost three years and his fate now rests in the hands of Priti Patel after being denied an appeal against his extradition to the US. Once there he'll face a show trial and a 175-year sentence in a concrete cell in a US super-max. The CIA have already plotted to assassinate him and I'm sure once he's on American soil it won't take long for them to finish him off. The parallels with Russia, in this case, are clear.

[Raymond Holt]

Re: Brave Lady

Well said. The other big problem is that the West will arm these Nazi-Extremist groups, as well as the Ukrainian Army, who will have no problem fighting alongside the Fascists. Arming Extremists does not work out well, as History shows us.

You're spot on. These weapons which are being funnelled into Ukraine will be staying there when the conflict is over. There will be far-right battalions armed to the teeth with UK-made weapons.

https://questions-statements.parliam...2-03-14/139582

Interesting also that the sanctions on Russia could have such a large effect on UK living standards, on top of the challenges we already face over the energy crisis. Expect corporate media support for the Ukrainian cause to go into overdrive to counteract this.

http://web.archive.org/web/202203170...-2500-a-person

[TWGL1]

Re: Brave Lady

You're spot on. These weapons which are being funnelled into Ukraine will be staying there when the conflict is over. There will be far-right battalions armed to the teeth with UK-made weapons.

https://questions-statements.parliam...2-03-14/139582

Interesting also that the sanctions on Russia could have such a large effect on UK living standards, on top of the challenges we already face over the energy crisis. Expect corporate media support for the Ukrainian cause to go into overdrive to counteract this.

http://web.archive.org/web/202203170...-2500-a-person

Good Post

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Brave Lady

Good Post

How was clown school today little Vlad?

[blue matt]

Re: Brave Lady

You're spot on. These weapons which are being funnelled into Ukraine will be staying there when the conflict is over. There will be far-right battalions armed to the teeth with UK-made weapons.

https://questions-statements.parliam...2-03-14/139582

when the invasion is over, most wouldn't want the Ukrainians to have no way to defend themselves from another attack from Russia,

a far-right battalion ( AZOV ) have been well armed since 2014 whilst fighting the Russian backed ( and even better armed ) separatists, so nothing will change in that aspect

Interesting also that the sanctions on Russia could have such a large effect on UK living standards, on top of the challenges we already face over the energy crisis. Expect corporate media support for the Ukrainian cause to go into overdrive to counteract this.

The world had to do something and sanctions were one of the easier options, personally, I would prefer for the UK to try and put pressure on Russia with sanctions than do nothing, unless you think that asking Putin politely would have been enough to get him to turn around the tanks

[TWGL1]

Re: Brave Lady

How was clown school today little Vlad?

Making assumptions again , I’m not taking sides , and there is no need to get personal and start insulting other posters who present a different opinion to yours.

What’s your views on the UK Government’s interventions in Iraq , Afghanistan and Syria and what’s your view of Saudi Weapons systems being used against Yemen being manufactured in Wales along with pilot training?

[Rjk]

Re: Brave Lady

Making assumptions again , I’m not taking sides , and there is no need to get personal and start insulting other posters who present a different opinion to yours.

What’s your views on the UK Government’s interventions in Iraq , Afghanistan and Syria and what’s your view of Saudi Weapons systems being used against Yemen being manufactured in Wales along with pilot training?

it has been shown that the Kremlin has been flooding some of this kind of whatabouttery onto various social media channels in the last few weeks.

sure criticise western governments for the things they do as well, but maybe that deserves its own thread?

[TWGL1]

Re: Brave Lady

it has been shown that the Kremlin has been flooding some of this kind of whatabouttery onto various social media channels in the last few weeks.

sure criticise western governments for the things they do as well, but maybe that deserves its own thread?

I thought this was old news , nothing to do with what you are saying regarding Russia, here is a news item from September and there is plenty online.

https://www.voice.wales/welsh-government-attacked-for-brushing-shoulders-with-human-rights-abusers-at-notorious-arms-fair-again/

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Brave Lady

Making assumptions again , I’m not taking sides , and there is no need to get personal and start insulting other posters who present a different opinion to yours.

What’s your views on the UK Government’s interventions in Iraq , Afghanistan and Syria and what’s your view of Saudi Weapons systems being used against Yemen being manufactured in Wales along with pilot training?

Some of your recent posts have been tinged with pro Kremlin sympathies imo.
Apologies if I get you wrong and my apologies for the personal dig.

I was massively against Iraq, it was a disaster.
Bush, Blair, Chaney, Rumsfeld etc should face justice.

I was pro going into Afghanistan after 9/11 and was sad to see it abandoned how it was.

Saudi is a reprehensible Kingdom.
I view the conflict in Syria as a proxy war another reprehensible regime, in Iran.