Yma O Hyd

[UNDERHILL1927]

Re: Yma O Hyd

Having a mare here Sludge.

The ridiculous nature of the situation was summed up for me yesterday when for a reason to get on a Welsh language course I wrote, “I’m embarrassed that I don’t know my mother tongue “. I don’t know the language of the country that I’ve lived in for 42 years, how mental is that?

As for getting rid of Welsh literature etc, that’s only going to marginalise Welsh speakers even more and make the language less visible.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Yma O Hyd

Yeah let's have GSTQ instead unless you have a better suggestion. which I doubt.

What a strange thing to say. You sound a bit confused. You know that Yma O Hyd isn't our national anthem, right?

As for me coming up with 'a better suggestion', the fact is I couldn't care less what Wales fans sing before international matches. Whatever makes them happy is fine is fine by me. I think Yma O Hyd is utter garbage, but if other people like it then so be it.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Yma O Hyd

The Welsh Language is massively important to Wales.
I went to Mr Urdd at Llangranog, learned to the best of my shitty ability taught by Mr Robert's at a school in Newport.

Even went to see the Cardiff Tigers (I think) American Football team at Ninian Park followed by Cefyl Pren at The Newport Centre that evening.

On the flip side, been ****ed off by the staff at Ifor Bach for rudimentary knowledge of the Welsh Language which just made me resentful rather than understanding.

Super Furry Animals have been amazing at building personal bridges for me.

I hope that the language flurries and that at some point in time the majority of people in Wales will have a better command of the language than me.

I totally agree with you that the Welsh language is very important . But it's made stronger by helping people to speak welsh . These forms don't do that .

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Yma O Hyd

Public money is spent on football and fishing.
Probably more than on these forms you keep banging on about.
Council tax forms ate once a year.
Maintaing parks and sporting areas are all year round.
Fishing is expensive to maintain and keep the rivers and lakes unpolluted.

I pay for fishing through my rod licence and fishing permit . That money goes towards keeping the rivers and lakes clean . It's completely irrelevant .

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Yma O Hyd

So basically **** the Welsh speaking people in these areas then because they are such a minority its pointless. Sounds like a tory attitude to things.

No it was a Labour government that gave Wales devolution and massively invested in the Welsh language and I voted for that .

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Yma O Hyd

Having a mare here Sludge.

The ridiculous nature of the situation was summed up for me yesterday when for a reason to get on a Welsh language course I wrote, “I’m embarrassed that I don’t know my mother tongue “. I don’t know the language of the country that I’ve lived in for 42 years, how mental is that?

As for getting rid of Welsh literature etc, that’s only going to marginalise Welsh speakers even more and make the language less visible.

I think you are being very precious . Since the Industrialisation of South Wales and the rapid growth of population English has become the dominant language . We know that 100 years ago the language was persecuted .

It's in a far better state these days thanks to the 1997 devolution and investment since then .

What people I think should be able to differentiate between is kids being beaten with a stick for speaking Welsh and the almost zealot like March towards Wales becoming a country where only 10 percent of a town like Bridgend speak welsh but the only way of getting a decent education is sending children to a Welsh school where it appears the use of the language drops out after school as the parents don't speak welsh .

Now clearly if the language for future generations can be encouraged by welsh schools and welsh education then it makes sense to analyse whether money is being spent on areas that matter .

I think that spending money on helping people to speak welsh is a good idea . I think spending money on bilingual services is a waste of money because very very few people in Wales who speak welsh as their first language are not able for the purposes of a form to understand English.

I think the pro welsh language lobby are completely over the top . Welsh is in a far better state these days and it's got nothing to do with bilingual council forms .

[Rjk]

Re: Yma O Hyd

Well I don't think it's as clear cut as that

The vast majority of forms in Welsh from government agencies that arrive on the doorstep in South East Wales go in the recycling

In South West Wales it's almost certainly going to be that a fair amount are used as Welsh is the dominant language in Carmarthenshire etc

I think in an area where Welsh is spoken hugely as a living language Welsh speakers should be provided with Welsh forms

But what's the point of spending money on Welsh council forms where the language isn't used on a day to day basis

Apart from the pontcanna taffia District where in Cardiff are people conversing in Welsh on a level that justifies spending money on forms , signage etc ?

I just think it's daft and doesn't do anything to strengthen the language

Welsh will never die now , it will always be here as the song says , like the country but the way to keep it growing is by teaching people how to speak it in English speaking Wales in schools , night classes etc

We are not going to preserve Welsh by having council tax forms sent out in Welsh

It's just a waste of money that could be spent on teaching or promoting the language . Having a form come through your door in Welsh isn't going to do that .

I think the point you make that "Welsh will never die now" is completely incorrect.

without significant efforts to keep it going it could easily die out within a few generations.
it is held up as a model of how to maintain a minority language by many countries.

there are languages in China with tens of millions of speakers that you've never heard of, that are dying out rapidly because the Chinese government want mandarin to be the only language

[delmbox]

Re: Yma O Hyd

I have always thought that the provision of services should be determined by the demand for that service .

Wow, I thought you were a socially conscious liberal, the mask has well and truly slipped

[dembethewarrior]

Re: Yma O Hyd

Wow, I thought you were a socially conscious liberal, the mask has well and truly slipped

Sludge facTORY


Been staring us in the face.

[The Bloop]

Re: Yma O Hyd

Sludge facTORY


Been staring us in the face.

Ha ha. Good spot.

[bobh]

Re: Yma O Hyd

I recall an incident reported a couple of years ago.

Two women of let's say foreign appearance, were chatting on a bus.

A man of far right views couldn't understand their language and took exception
and berated them saying something like
"you're in England now - you should be speaking English!"

One of them replied, in English,

Actually, we're in Wales and we are speaking Welsh - what's your problem?"

There wasn't a hole deep enough for him to crawl into.

[dembethewarrior]

Re: Yma O Hyd

I recall an incident reported a couple of years ago.

Two women of let's say foreign appearance, were chatting on a bus.

A man of far right views couldn't understand their language and took exception
and berated them saying something like
"you're in England now - you should be speaking English!"

One of them replied, in English,

Actually, we're in Wales and we are speaking Welsh - what's your problem?"

There wasn't a hole deep enough for him to crawl into.

I'm not disputing if it happened or not, but doesn't this sound like one of them urban myths you read online?!

[JamesWales]

Re: Yma O Hyd

In defence of Sludge...

And bearing in mind I haven't read everything here.

But it is possible to be critical of some pro-welsh language policies and that not mean you don't support the language. Same way you can be a christian and criticise some church policies. For example, the language needs to 'win around' people if it is to have popular support. Spending money on bilingual signage may not be the best way to do that. Sludge's comments are very common in Cardiff.

Sometimes less is more and 'shoving things down peoples throats' (not my words) isn't always the best thing to do.

Personally I have no issue at all with bilingual general information as it's cheaper than an opt out system and tends to lead to more concise communication (ie, you keep it to one side of paper, so the Welsh/English is reversible).

One thing I would change is the requirement for kids to study Welsh until 16. I think after 14 it should be optional, by which time you have gained an awareness of the cultural and linguistic elements of the language but you are unlikely to become fluent in it compared to kids at Welsh language schools and it does impact upon other subjects given there are only so many hours in the day. I'm a big believer in learning foreign languages (ich kann Deutsche sprechen...) and I don't want us to fall further behind on that.

Anecdotally I think that policy does build some resentment towards the language, including amongst young people 'made' to learn it.

[dembethewarrior]

Re: Yma O Hyd

In defence of Sludge...

And bearing in mind I haven't read everything here.

But it is possible to be critical of some pro-welsh language policies and that not mean you don't support the language. For example, the language needs to 'win around' people if it is to have popular support. Spending money on bilingual signage may not be the best way to do that. Sludge's comments are very common in Cardiff.

Sometimes less is more and 'shoving things down peoples throats' (not my words) isn't always the best thing to do.

Personally I have no issue at all with bilingual general information as it's cheaper than an opt out system and tends to lead to more concise communication (ie, you keep it to one side of paper, so the Welsh/English is reversible).

One thing I would change is the requirement for kids to study Welsh until 16. I think after 14 it should be optional, by which time you have gained an awareness of the cultural and linguistic elements of the language but you are unlikely to become fluent in it compared to kids at Welsh language schools and it does impact upon other subjects given there are only so many hours in the day.

Anecdotally I think that policy does build some resentment towards the language, including amongst young people 'made' to learn it.

I had 1 hour of Welsh a week after 14

My daughter is 15 and gets the same one whole hour a week.

[bobh]

Re: Yma O Hyd

duplicate post