Time to Move

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Time to Move

Has there ever been any trouble at the ccs? Or outside more likely? Anywhere in the city in the last 15/20 years football related? There will always be a group of young idiots at every ground but like SP says, who cares? You going to get angry and jump over the seats and through the stewards to get them? Of course not….those days have gone, long gone.

Not wishing to stoke this up but yes, there has. When we were in the PL there were a few incidents (against Man United I think) in the ground and there's been scuffles with stewards at the away end.

I walk to matches from Grangetown and during the PL season's big matches Mrs Citizen was targeted with sexual, verbal abuse and no longer wears Cardiff colours. We've seen scuffles outside on Sloper road and there's been more of them. I've seen young Cardiff fans throwing coins at away fans coming out of CCS.

I've seen police drag middle-aged men off each other on Sloper road after matches. It's slowly started to get worse over the last decade imo. There's something wrong when a decade ago we both felt comfortable walking home but feel less so now. That feeling of vulnerability (especially being disabled) is amplified when you see violence or are on the end of verbal abuse.

To put some perspective on this, we'll walk to matches there and back around 30+ times over a season so we get to see and hear quite a bit. I'm not saying it's a massive problem, but I am concerned enough to feel a bit nervous these days when I didn't a few years ago.

[dml1954]

Re: Time to Move

But other clubs have shown that a safe stadium is still possible with opposing fans next to each other. Unless you think Cardiff City would be the exception?

Back when our hooligan element was at its worst we were getting ~4k at games. Now we get 20k. Our club has (thankfully) become much more accessible to families and younger fans and our hooligan element is all but gone. Not only that, the idiots that used to enjoy getting into fights and running riot with the police are in their 50’s and 60’s now. I’d imagine they’re all bark and no bite these days.

I would argue any trouble from our fans is more likely to happen at away games than home games as that’s the more hardcore support and they’re more drunk and drugged up. How many away games in the past decade have had trouble? Bristol last year, Man City in 2014 and a bit further back, Chelsea in 2010. That’s all I can recall at the moment, perhaps there’s others.

These days fans drink in the same pubs and walk down the same streets after games and mingle. I don’t expect simply switching the ends would change that.

The reason that there is a lot less trouble at home games nowadays is almost entirely down to the layout and management of the new stadium, which was purpose built to provide a safe/secure and easily ‘policed’ environment for fans. Putting opposing fans right next to each other would drive a horse and cart through the whole system. There is evidence of bad behaviour by some City fans but especially other teams fans, in recent years as well, usually fuelled by alcohol. What about when someone scores at the Grange end and celebrates in front of their own fans - right next to the opposition fans !! Why anyone would want to change a system that works and encourage fan confrontation, is beyond me. Perhaps the people now complaining the loudest are part of the original problem and miss ‘the good old days’ ?

[Canton Kev]

Re: Time to Move

The reason that there is a lot less trouble at home games nowadays is almost entirely down to the layout and management of the new stadium, which was purpose built to provide a safe/secure and easily ‘policed’ environment for fans. Putting opposing fans right next to each other would drive a horse and cart through the whole system. There is evidence of bad behaviour by some City fans but especially other teams fans, in recent years as well, usually fuelled by alcohol. What about when someone scores at the Grange end and celebrates in front of their own fans - right next to the opposition fans !! Why anyone would want to change a system that works and encourage fan confrontation, is beyond me. Perhaps the people now complaining the loudest are part of the original problem and miss ‘the good old days’ ?

Except lots of stadiums, modern and old, manage just fine with away fans next to the vocal home supporters. Unless you think Cardiff would be the one exception and we’d revert back to the days of 80’s style hooliganism?
Which was before I was born I’ll add, so your last point is incorrect in my case.

[splott parker]

Re: Time to Move

The reason that there is a lot less trouble at home games nowadays is almost entirely down to the layout and management of the new stadium, which was purpose built to provide a safe/secure and easily ‘policed’ environment for fans. Putting opposing fans right next to each other would drive a horse and cart through the whole system. There is evidence of bad behaviour by some City fans but especially other teams fans, in recent years as well, usually fuelled by alcohol. What about when someone scores at the Grange end and celebrates in front of their own fans - right next to the opposition fans !! Why anyone would want to change a system that works and encourage fan confrontation, is beyond me. Perhaps the people now complaining the loudest are part of the original problem and miss ‘the good old days’ ?

I’m in the Grandstand and your ‘miss the good old days’ is a ridiculous quote. Someone has mentioned that Swansea & Millwall fans have caused a bit of trouble at the away end, so I’ll put another spin on it, is it wise to have our family stand so close to potential trouble? Or should we have our kids & families as far away as possible?

Anyway I only started this thread because I was impressed by the way Reading have sorted their atmosphere out with no trouble whatsoever. Fans of both sides post match chatting and catching the football buses back into town with no bother at all. Some of our fans seem to love harking back to, as you say ‘the good old days’, they may have been good old days to you dml1954 but they certainly weren’t to the majority of us.

I’ll tell you what wasn’t a good old day, ‘Play Up Pompey’ ringing around our ground last Tuesday.

[goats]

Re: Time to Move

The reason that there is a lot less trouble at home games nowadays is almost entirely down to the layout and management of the new stadium, which was purpose built to provide a safe/secure and easily ‘policed’ environment for fans. Putting opposing fans right next to each other would drive a horse and cart through the whole system. There is evidence of bad behaviour by some City fans but especially other teams fans, in recent years as well, usually fuelled by alcohol. What about when someone scores at the Grange end and celebrates in front of their own fans - right next to the opposition fans !! Why anyone would want to change a system that works and encourage fan confrontation, is beyond me. Perhaps the people now complaining the loudest are part of the original problem and miss ‘the good old days’ ?

Can’t say I particularly enjoy sitting next to them with my two boys (8 and 10)…luckily they couldn’t understand a word the northerners, brummies or cockneys were saying…..

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Time to Move

I’m in the Grandstand and your ‘miss the good old days’ is a ridiculous quote. Someone has mentioned that Swansea & Millwall fans have caused a bit of trouble at the away end, so I’ll put another spin on it, is it wise to have our family stand so close to potential trouble? Or should we have our kids & families as far away as possible?

Anyway I only started this thread because I was impressed by the way Reading have sorted their atmosphere out with no trouble whatsoever. Fans of both sides post match chatting and catching the football buses back into town with no bother at all. Some of our fans seem to love harking back to, as you say ‘the good old days’, they may have been good old days to you dml1954 but they certainly weren’t to the majority of us.

I’ll tell you what wasn’t a good old day, ‘Play Up Pompey’ ringing around our ground last Tuesday.

I think this is the strongest argument tbh Mr P. I've often thought exactly that. So, ironically, there is a H&S element to it and I think that's worthy of discussion in its own right.

Maybe my own vulnerability is contributing to my caution.

We went to Birmingham away last season and had a great time. Met some lovely Brum fans and shared a cab to the ground. Apart from the overwhelming police presence and some issues getting out it was a really good day.

[goats]

Re: Time to Move

The reason that there is a lot less trouble at home games nowadays is almost entirely down to the layout and management of the new stadium, which was purpose built to provide a safe/secure and easily ‘policed’ environment for fans. Putting opposing fans right next to each other would drive a horse and cart through the whole system. There is evidence of bad behaviour by some City fans but especially other teams fans, in recent years as well, usually fuelled by alcohol. What about when someone scores at the Grange end and celebrates in front of their own fans - right next to the opposition fans !! Why anyone would want to change a system that works and encourage fan confrontation, is beyond me. Perhaps the people now complaining the loudest are part of the original problem and miss ‘the good old days’ ?

And just by co incidence not outside or anywhere in the city on match day either? That’s down to the stadium layout? That’s remarkable

[dml1954]

Re: Time to Move

Except lots of stadiums, modern and old, manage just fine with away fans next to the vocal home supporters. Unless you think Cardiff would be the one exception and we’d revert back to the days of 80’s style hooliganism?
Which was before I was born I’ll add, so your last point is incorrect in my case.

I wasn't aiming it at you to be fair.

[dml1954]

Re: Time to Move

And just by co incidence not outside or anywhere in the city on match day either? That’s down to the stadium layout? That’s remarkable

I don’t know if you are being deliberately obtuse but Its down to the way that the stadium is policed and stewarded and the fact that rival fans are generally kept well apart. Its not rocket science really is it. The incidence of bad behaviour at our home games reduced considerably when we moved to the new stadium.

[Canton Kev]

Re: Time to Move

I don’t know if you are being deliberately obtuse but Its down to the way that the stadium is policed and stewarded and the fact that rival fans are generally kept well apart. Its not rocket science really is it. The incidence of bad behaviour at our home games reduced considerably when we moved to the new stadium.

Or society has moved on from those days? Cardiff City included. What about all the teams that haven’t moved stadiums in the last ~30 years?
Why don’t we have hooligan issues when we travel to these old stadiums without the modern stadium safety features?

Our crowds are 5 to 6 times bigger than back in the hooligan days and the football has become a family day out for many. What percentage of the crowds were women and children back in the 80’s compared to now?

[dml1954]

Re: Time to Move

I’m in the Grandstand and your ‘miss the good old days’ is a ridiculous quote. Someone has mentioned that Swansea & Millwall fans have caused a bit of trouble at the away end, so I’ll put another spin on it, is it wise to have our family stand so close to potential trouble? Or should we have our kids & families as far away as possible?

Anyway I only started this thread because I was impressed by the way Reading have sorted their atmosphere out with no trouble whatsoever. Fans of both sides post match chatting and catching the football buses back into town with no bother at all. Some of our fans seem to love harking back to, as you say ‘the good old days’, they may have been good old days to you dml1954 but they certainly weren’t to the majority of us.

I’ll tell you what wasn’t a good old day, ‘Play Up Pompey’ ringing around our ground last Tuesday.

The fact that the words ‘good old days’ in my previous post were in inverted commas should have given you a clue to the fact that I didn't enjoy them either. You seem to be pining after them though to me. I attended games at Ninian Park in the 70’s and 80’s where I was literally afraid for my life (Leeds fans infiltrating the main grandstand in disguise right behind me to attack City fans in the enclosure, Millwall fans taking over the ground after a game, wrecking it and trying to get into the dressing rooms, Swansea fans in the grandstand ripping out seats and throwing them into the Cardiff fans in the grange end and enclosure etc etc etc). Anyone wanting to go back to those sorts of thing happening (which putting fans right next to each other would encourage) is frankly mad.

[goats]

Re: Time to Move

I don’t know if you are being deliberately obtuse but Its down to the way that the stadium is policed and stewarded and the fact that rival fans are generally kept well apart. Its not rocket science really is it. The incidence of bad behaviour at our home games reduced considerably when we moved to the new stadium.

So tell me when you have seen rival fans fighting each other inside Ninian Park? It was lively sometimes I know in the Sam hammam era with away fans surrounded so to speak but it rarely got out of control (Leeds fa cup for ie but no fighting) It’s a bit of a myth really, plenty of trouble away caused by our fans but not here, not for a long time. I get the club might want to reduce the likelihood of it happening but apart from the odd idiot ( which will always be in society) I don’t think there would be any trouble at the ground.

[dml1954]

Re: Time to Move

I think this is the strongest argument tbh Mr P. I've often thought exactly that. So, ironically, there is a H&S element to it and I think that's worthy of discussion in its own right.

Maybe my own vulnerability is contributing to my caution.

We went to Birmingham away last season and had a great time. Met some lovely Brum fans and shared a cab to the ground. Apart from the overwhelming police presence and some issues getting out it was a really good day.

I think that you are missing the point as well. Having the family stand next to the away fans area actually helps control the whole system. There is no intimidatory behaviour being aimed at away fans and no missiles being thrown either. No one but the sickest away fan would therefore start reciprocation in the opposite direction and it rarely, if ever, appears to happen. This considerably reduces the intimidatory atmosphere within the stadium and reduces the risk of any violence or other problems occurring.

[goats]

Re: Time to Move

The fact that the words ‘good old days’ in my previous post were in inverted commas should have given you a clue to the fact that I didn't enjoy them either. You seem to be pining after them though to me. I attended games at Ninian Park in the 70’s and 80’s where I was literally afraid for my life (Leeds fans infiltrating the main grandstand in disguise right behind me to attack City fans in the enclosure, Millwall fans taking over the ground after a game, wrecking it and trying to get into the dressing rooms, Swansea fans in the grandstand ripping out seats and throwing them into the Cardiff fans in the grange end and enclosure etc etc etc). Anyone wanting to go back to those sorts of thing happening (which putting fans right next to each other would encourage) is frankly mad.

Millwall? In 2000 was it? There was no one in the ground, I know because me and a few others were the last to leave on the Bob bank that day. The idiots got their arses handed back to them on a plate under the grandstand I believe, that’s the only time I’ve heard of actual fighting in the ground this century……

[dml1954]

Re: Time to Move

So tell me when you have seen rival fans fighting each other inside Ninian Park? It was lively sometimes I know in the Sam hammam era with away fans surrounded so to speak but it rarely got out of control (Leeds fa cup for ie but no fighting) It’s a bit of a myth really, plenty of trouble away caused by our fans but not here, not for a long time. I get the club might want to reduce the likelihood of it happening but apart from the odd idiot ( which will always be in society) I don’t think there would be any trouble at the ground.

Your comments in this post beggar belief. Did you ever go to a game at Ninian Park ? I refer you to my reply to SP above which contains three occasions when I was in fear of my safety and there were many other occasions both inside and outside the ground, all caused by fans being allowed in close proximity to each other.