Gas and Electric fix?

[life on mars]

Re: Gas and Electric fix?

Privatisation has introduced a lot of choice (under the guise of increased competition to benefit consumers), but it also means a lot of hassle sorting through the options!

If it was nationlised or had remained as so , we would still pay the wholesale price , plus the cost of the workforce, pensions structure costs , somewhere it cost someone or something..

The government will create a long term subisdy cap via suppliers to benefit consumers, discusions already on going .. however it will require payback ..

Nothing is for nothing in this take energy for granted world , to be fair we could all stop some waste..

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Gas and Electric fix?

Privatisation has introduced a lot of choice (under the guise of increased competition to benefit consumers), but it also means a lot of hassle sorting through the options!

I find it hard to believe all these companies offer the consumer better value

I think privatisation was a way to save money in the short term ......for the government ....and make huge amounts of profit .....for the companies and shareholders .......

The ordinary member of the public ? .....bottom of the list and totally ripped off

Piss off Thatcher

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Gas and Electric fix?

If it was nationlised or had remained as so , we would still pay the wholesale price , plus the cost of the workforce, pensions structure costs , somewhere it cost someone or something..

The government will create a long term subisdy cap via suppliers to benefit consumers, discusions already on going .. however it will require payback ..

Nothing is for nothing in this take energy for granted world , to be fair we could all stop some waste..

Are you working for the Conservative party ?

[JumpersforGoalposts]

Re: Gas and Electric fix?

I find it hard to believe all these companies offer the consumer better value

I think privatisation was a way to save money in the short term ......for the government ....and make huge amounts of profit .....for the companies and shareholders .......

The ordinary member of the public ? .....bottom of the list and totally ripped off

Piss off Thatcher

Fair point well made!

[JamesWales]

Re: Gas and Electric fix?

the price cap is for people on a variable rate

If you choose to switch to a different rate there is no cap and it will be a lot higher

ah okay, thank you.

[Rjk]

Re: Gas and Electric fix?

I find it hard to believe all these companies offer the consumer better value

I think privatisation was a way to save money in the short term ......for the government ....and make huge amounts of profit .....for the companies and shareholders .......

The ordinary member of the public ? .....bottom of the list and totally ripped off

Piss off Thatcher

Privatisation works if there is a competitive market.

The further you get from a "perfect" market the less efficient privatisation becomes.

Some markets are never likely to be a perfect market.

The rail network - only one company runs the trains on the tracks near me. Every 20 years or so they bid for a franchise, but that is an isolated amount of competition and the rest of the time it is an inefficient market.

The utilities are a slightly more compicated situation - I think there is pretty good competition in the front end of the industry - the customer facing bit that basically only reads your meters and gives you your bills. That offers very little value to the country though.
The behind the scenes parts are - like the trains - on long franchises I think and there is no competition. This is where you could make a real difference to people. This is what Ed Milliband was talking about when he was Labour leader.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Gas and Electric fix?

Privatisation has introduced a lot of choice (under the guise of increased competition to benefit consumers), but it also means a lot of hassle sorting through the options!

It's not real 'choice' though. It's the identical product with - in normal times - thousands of different options, or more accurately, permutations, to choose from. For those acting diligently and getting the lowest tariff and changing when needed, it's fine. But for folk who aren't too clever with IT or might not even have a computer, they'll end up paying over the odds. It's these people who subsidize those who shop around. If everyone opted for the cheapest tariff available to them the energy companies would go bust.

[Rjk]

Re: Gas and Electric fix?

It's not real 'choice' though. It's the identical product with - in normal times - thousands of different options, or more accurately, permutations, to choose from. For those acting diligently and getting the lowest tariff and changing when needed, it's fine. But for folk who aren't too clever with IT or might not even have a computer, they'll end up paying over the odds. It's these people who subsidize those who shop around. If everyone opted for the cheapest tariff available to them the energy companies would go bust.

All you are choosing between is who gives you a bill and takes your money for exactly the same gas or electricity. It is not real choice, it is a veneer of choice.
Yes that side of things is run with very low margins typically, but the majority of the issues are with the rest of the market.

[JamesWales]

Re: Gas and Electric fix?

Privatisation works if there is a competitive market.

The further you get from a "perfect" market the less efficient privatisation becomes.

Some markets are never likely to be a perfect market.

The rail network - only one company runs the trains on the tracks near me. Every 20 years or so they bid for a franchise, but that is an isolated amount of competition and the rest of the time it is an inefficient market.

The utilities are a slightly more compicated situation - I think there is pretty good competition in the front end of the industry - the customer facing bit that basically only reads your meters and gives you your bills. That offers very little value to the country though.
The behind the scenes parts are - like the trains - on long franchises I think and there is no competition. This is where you could make a real difference to people. This is what Ed Milliband was talking about when he was Labour leader.

This is a very good summary I think.

I think a lot of it comes down to the amount of shared infrastructure needed to make the system work. So roads for example could never be privatised (en masse) due to the shared maintenance and infrastructure needed.

Inter city Buses on the other hand, which obviously use roads, have been privatised well. There is genuine competition, and the idea of a single nationalised National Express seems absurd. Car manufacturing also. There is no need for a nationalised body.

Water and utilities are different perhaps. They need enormous infrastructure and have to serve the national need. I would say electric and gas have worked well so far, and water perhaps, but we are learning that they have not been investing as well as they should.

For me though, the issue is not one of public v private. As fo today, The european wholesale price of gas is up 575% year on year. The UK price is up nearly 400%. Governments cannot control that, they can only mitigate against it, and that cost will have to come from somewhere whoever owns the companies. France may be reducing the price, but it will come from using money elsewhere which is ultimately raised in taxes.

The UK is knocking £66 a month off every bill (my electricity will essentially be free this winter as a result) so intervention can occur irrespective of ownership.

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