Brentford to stop taking a knee

[Heisenberg]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

Great decision well, done the brave Bees , when you consider they in particular have developed and have a lot of good young black players .

Think it all as to end , before crowds return .

Iwonder if the 6 nation Rugby players divided response provide a catalyst to change ?

In response to each of your sentences:

Why?

Why?

And, finally, why?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

I think if clubs and players feel at individual clubs that they are no longer going to take the knee then that's fine . However if a player of whatever colour wants to take the knee before a game from now until eternity I thinks that's up to him . I wouldn't boo a player taking the knee .

I agree with it in principle but understand why people who are clearly not racists do not agree with it or did but now feel it has made its mark .

[B. Oddie]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

I think its probably lost it's meaning now and it will eventually become an empty gesture, if it isn't already.

I've seen plenty of "Black Lives Matter....so (you're saying) white lives don't!?" etc over social media, so the BLM movement is just giving racist idiots something identifiable to attack.

What I have never been able to fathom in a racism within football context is that a black player from an opposing team is racially abused, but the black players on your own team aren't? The fact that there isn't any consistency in racism demonstrates how ridiculous it is.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

I think its probably lost it's meaning now and it will eventually become an empty gesture, if it isn't already.

I've seen plenty of "Black Lives Matter....so (you're saying) white lives don't!?" etc over social media, so the BLM movement is just giving racist idiots something identifiable to attack.

What I have never been able to fathom in a racism within football context is that a black player from an opposing team is racially abused, but the black players on your own team aren't? The fact that there isn't any consistency in racism demonstrates how ridiculous it is.

We were playing Stoke at home several years back , Stoke forward was time wasting some cretin from the bob bank shouts out you black see you next Tuesday, he gets plenty of stick from fellow fans

But our side that day had several black players

What would they have made of that nonsense

These people are a combination of thick , ignorant and sly

[stan butler]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

Is this a good or a bad thing? Will other clubs follow on from this?

Your views please gents. Let's have a good old fashioned debate without slagging any other posters political views off....

Brentford will no longer take a knee before games because they feel the gesture against discrimination no longer has the required impact.

Sunday's game against Barnsley will be the first in which they have not taken part in the pre-match kneel.

In a statement, the Championship side's squad said racism was "the opposite of what we stand for".

"There is a clear need to continue to push for an end to all discrimination," the statement added.

"We believe we can use our time and energies to promote racial equality in other ways."

They also reiterated support for the club's #BeeTogether inclusivity drive, and would continue to support clubs who did wish to take a knee at games.

West London neighbours Queens Park Rangers had already stopped taking the knee as the club felt the effect was "diluted", although they did join Millwall in doing so in a fixture after players had been booed in the Lions' previous match.

Middlesbrough stopped doing so for similar reasons as captain Britt Assombalonga said change was now required after the initial success of the gesture, while Crystal Palace winger Wilfried Zaha said the knee gesture was "degrading" in a recent newspaper interview.

The taking a knee gesture was inspired by NFL player Colin Kaepernick, who decided on the silent protest against racial oppression by kneeling during the national anthem.

"Taking a knee is just one way our players have been showing their commitment," Brentford chief executive Jon Varney said.

"We supported their desire to do it and we now support their desire to focus on other ways to show this commitment. We have been very clear in our ambition to be the most inclusive club in the country and our players want to and will play a big part on this journey."

Players should be allowed to decide if they do it or not without the idiots accusing them of being racist if they decide against it.

[stan butler]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

The way it's happened, kneeling is seen as BLM.
Making the point about equality and moving on:
Before kick-off, each team to stand shoulder to shoulder with their teammates to show it doesn't(shouldn't) matter.
Form a circle with alternating members of each team to to show it doesn't (shouldn't) matter.

all post-covid of course

Good idea.

[life on mars]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

Intresting article sure to upset some:


The rather talented Crystal Palace winger, Wilfried Zaha, has said that he finds being cajoled into taking a knee before matches “degrading”. He has also objected to wearing T-shirts supportive of Black Lives Matter. He is “fed up” of “charades that mean nothing”, believing that the kneeling business is simply a kind of virtue signalling which hides a lack of real action on the part of the authorities. He also refuses to put his name to BLM campaigns, believing it to be simply a “box-ticking” exercise.

Zaha is not alone among players who feel uneasy about the whole knee business, apparently. The elder statesman Les Ferdinand, now director of football at Queens Park Rangers, has said that the impact of taking a knee was “diluted”*and QPR didn’t do it. (Until recently, when they started again. I don’t know why.)

Lyle Taylor, the Nottingham Forest striker, is eloquent on the matter, stressing his opposition to racism in all its manifestations, but saying: “I do not support Black Lives Matter as an institution, as an organisation. I’d request anyone who blindly supports Black Lives Matter to have a look to what that organisation does and what it stands for, because it’s scandalous the fact that the whole world and the whole world’s media got behind Black Lives Matter. Standing behind Black Lives Matter, all the big institutions, all of them sitting there saying Black Lives Matter — not a good idea.”

Zaha, despite his unease still takes the knee

Every week, however, the Premier League clubs are seen kneeling. It is unclear if any degree of coercion is involved: Zaha, for example, still kneels down despite his complaint. That it has gone on so long is at least partly a consequence of fans being absent from matches and therefore unable to make their feelings heard.

While there is near unanimous support for the English Football League’s “Kick It Out” campaign and a disgust at racism, there is no great love for BLM among fans. During that brief interregnum when small quantities of fans were allowed in to a minority of grounds (largely in the south of the country), there was booing from the stands when kneeling took place at Millwall, West Ham Unted and Colchester United. My lot, Millwall, no longer take a knee, but stand in solidarity with “Kick It Out” and were warmly applauded when they did so by fans.

The kneeling has spread, meanwhile. The England rugby team now do it, or some of them do. Not Billy Vunipola, however. The Saracens forward, of Tongan ancestry, is a devout Christian and objects to the policies of BLM. “They were burning churches and Bibles — I can’t support that,” he said. “Even though I am a person of colour, I’m still more a person of, I guess, Jesus.”

And you wonder: were the team asked to kneel? Was it an imperative or simply a matter of choice? In the event, six did not kneel before the Scotland defeat and none of their opponents did so. The Irish team did not kneel before their game against Wales and an opinion poll suggested that 85 per cent of their fellow countrymen thoroughly approved of this radical, er, inaction.

Devout Rugby Player* Christian Billy Vunipola chose to stand

Meanwhile, in cricket, the England players knelt in last July’s series against West Indies but did not do so against Australia. The Australians themselves didn’t kneel either but stood in a circle or something to express their solidarity with indigenous Australians. It has become something of a pantomime.

So, you can see what both Zaha and Sir Les mean when they suggest that the message has become diluted, or is a “charade”. Perhaps more to the point it might also be seen as divisive, given that some players are doing it and others are not — while others are doing it and hating every second.

The obsessed left would have you believe that those who don’t kneel are unsupportive of the fight against racism — but that is a difficult accusation to make of players who are black and have actually experienced that racism first hand.

I would maintain that it is impossible to separate taking a knee from BLM, as supporters of the kneeling business now (rather late in the day) suggest we should. Nor was there any attempt to separate the two back in the summer when the Premier League was handing out BLM T-shirts and TV pundits were wearing BLM badges.

Perhaps if Fifa and the Premier League had done even half as much research as Lyle Taylor into BLM the “charade” might never have started.

Rod Liddle

[splott parker]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

After today they want to start thinking about taking the knee again:hehe:

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

The way it's happened, kneeling is seen as BLM.
Making the point about equality and moving on:
Before kick-off, each team to stand shoulder to shoulder with their teammates to show it doesn't(shouldn't) matter.
Form a circle with alternating members of each team to to show it doesn't (shouldn't) matter.

all post-covid of course

Good idea. And players of both sides should wear rainbow 'coloured' socks.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

Intresting article sure to upset some:


The rather talented Crystal Palace winger, Wilfried Zaha, has said that he finds being cajoled into taking a knee before matches “degrading”. He has also objected to wearing T-shirts supportive of Black Lives Matter. He is “fed up” of “charades that mean nothing”, believing that the kneeling business is simply a kind of virtue signalling which hides a lack of real action on the part of the authorities. He also refuses to put his name to BLM campaigns, believing it to be simply a “box-ticking” exercise.

Zaha is not alone among players who feel uneasy about the whole knee business, apparently. The elder statesman Les Ferdinand, now director of football at Queens Park Rangers, has said that the impact of taking a knee was “diluted”*and QPR didn’t do it. (Until recently, when they started again. I don’t know why.)

Lyle Taylor, the Nottingham Forest striker, is eloquent on the matter, stressing his opposition to racism in all its manifestations, but saying: “I do not support Black Lives Matter as an institution, as an organisation. I’d request anyone who blindly supports Black Lives Matter to have a look to what that organisation does and what it stands for, because it’s scandalous the fact that the whole world and the whole world’s media got behind Black Lives Matter. Standing behind Black Lives Matter, all the big institutions, all of them sitting there saying Black Lives Matter — not a good idea.”

Zaha, despite his unease still takes the knee

Every week, however, the Premier League clubs are seen kneeling. It is unclear if any degree of coercion is involved: Zaha, for example, still kneels down despite his complaint. That it has gone on so long is at least partly a consequence of fans being absent from matches and therefore unable to make their feelings heard.

While there is near unanimous support for the English Football League’s “Kick It Out” campaign and a disgust at racism, there is no great love for BLM among fans. During that brief interregnum when small quantities of fans were allowed in to a minority of grounds (largely in the south of the country), there was booing from the stands when kneeling took place at Millwall, West Ham Unted and Colchester United. My lot, Millwall, no longer take a knee, but stand in solidarity with “Kick It Out” and were warmly applauded when they did so by fans.

The kneeling has spread, meanwhile. The England rugby team now do it, or some of them do. Not Billy Vunipola, however. The Saracens forward, of Tongan ancestry, is a devout Christian and objects to the policies of BLM. “They were burning churches and Bibles — I can’t support that,” he said. “Even though I am a person of colour, I’m still more a person of, I guess, Jesus.”

And you wonder: were the team asked to kneel? Was it an imperative or simply a matter of choice? In the event, six did not kneel before the Scotland defeat and none of their opponents did so. The Irish team did not kneel before their game against Wales and an opinion poll suggested that 85 per cent of their fellow countrymen thoroughly approved of this radical, er, inaction.

Devout Rugby Player* Christian Billy Vunipola chose to stand

Meanwhile, in cricket, the England players knelt in last July’s series against West Indies but did not do so against Australia. The Australians themselves didn’t kneel either but stood in a circle or something to express their solidarity with indigenous Australians. It has become something of a pantomime.

So, you can see what both Zaha and Sir Les mean when they suggest that the message has become diluted, or is a “charade”. Perhaps more to the point it might also be seen as divisive, given that some players are doing it and others are not — while others are doing it and hating every second.

The obsessed left would have you believe that those who don’t kneel are unsupportive of the fight against racism — but that is a difficult accusation to make of players who are black and have actually experienced that racism first hand.

I would maintain that it is impossible to separate taking a knee from BLM, as supporters of the kneeling business now (rather late in the day) suggest we should. Nor was there any attempt to separate the two back in the summer when the Premier League was handing out BLM T-shirts and TV pundits were wearing BLM badges.

Perhaps if Fifa and the Premier League had done even half as much research as Lyle Taylor into BLM the “charade” might never have started.

Rod Liddle

Ron Adolf Liddle

Hates the Welsh

[Its been emotional]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

Any sporting event should not be used as a political tool just because of it's world wide audience.
Sport has and always will be popular with supporters because of its escapism of the political world and what's going on in supporters personal lives.
If politics creeps into sport which it has began too, sport is finished.

[delmbox]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

If politics creeps into sport which it has began too, sport is finished.

It's not though is it, that's just an empty broad statement based on nothing

[UNDERHILL1927]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

It's not though is it, that's just an empty broad statement based on nothing

Yeah absolute bollox and people that use the "shouldn't bring politics into it" are usually just avoiding facing up to the issue.

The fight against racism is not political, it's a basic human right that everyone be treated equally.

[jon1959]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

Sport and politics have been entwined for ever. The first marathon was an anti-Persian propaganda exercise! Berlin Olympics 1936. The 1980 Olympic boycott. The white South African cricket and rugby tours and the opposition to them. Sport used to legitimise or promote different regimes or ideologies. Sport tied up with commerce and used to resist regulation (alcohol and gambling especially). Sports crowds as recruiting grounds for political groups (sometimes from the left in Germany and east Asia, but usually from the right or far right). Now in the age of social media most sportspeople have an on-line profile and identity that cannot be cut loose from their identity (and sometimes example) as a player or competitor. If politics creeping into sport is going to finish it - it would have been finished before it started!

[delmbox]

Re: Brentford to stop taking a knee

Sport and politics have been entwined for ever. The first marathon was an anti-Persian propaganda exercise! Berlin Olympics 1936. The 1980 Olympic boycott. The white South African cricket and rugby tours and the opposition to them. Sport used to legitimise or promote different regimes or ideologies. Sport tied up with commerce and used to resist regulation (alcohol and gambling especially). Sports crowds as recruiting grounds for political groups (sometimes from the left in Germany and east Asia, but usually from the right or far right). Now in the age of social media most sportspeople have an on-line profile and identity that cannot be cut loose from their identity (and sometimes example) as a player or competitor. If politics creeping into sport is going to finish it - it would have been finished before it started!

yeah but that's all a lot less catchy than a vacuous dramatic soundbite