Bale and Ramsey, a question.

[the other bob wilson]

There has been a lot of criticism of the decision to include Chris Gunter and Jonny Williams in the World Cup squad. It would appear that the pair of them have been picked mainly for their influence within the squad. So, say that there was a widespread acceptance, including from the players themselves, that Bale and Ramsey did not merit automatic selection in the starting line up any more after this tournament, but they both wanted to keep on playing for Wales (not impossible given the almost unique atmosphere within Welsh squads in recent years and the commitment to the cause shown by both players throughout their careers), how would you feel about them eventually being selected in squads just for their influence?

I find it a tough one to answer because I wouldn't rule it out that the other players would want that to happen, but, on balance, I think I'd go for a clean break with the past - although if their ambitions stretched to managing the national team (unlikely in both cases I'd guess), I'd have a different opinion.

[llan bluebird]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

I believe the last five days have been a unique experience for Bale and Rambo, up to that point, even when returning from a long layoff, they have been able to affect games. Ramsey had an incredible natural fitness and Bale just imposed himself at key moments. Big decisions for the pair of them.

I think everyone accepts this is the end of an era, but I don't think any of them will retire from international football, although it can't be about them anymore. Whether they are robust enough to regularly play at a decent level is another question though.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

I believe the last five days have been a unique experience for Bale and Rambo, up to that point, even when returning from a long layoff, they have been able to affect games. Ramsey had an incredible natural fitness and Bale just imposed himself at key moments. Big decisions for the pair of them.

I think everyone accepts this is the end of an era, but I don't think any of them will retire from international football, although it can't be about them anymore. Whether they are robust enough to regularly play at a decent level is another question though.

You make a good point, Bale looked devastated after the game, when you're as good as he's been, it must hard to accept that you're in the process of becoming a "mere mortal". -

[Harry Bosch]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

There has been a lot of criticism of the decision to include Chris Gunter and Jonny Williams in the World Cup squad. It would appear that the pair of them have been picked mainly for their influence within the squad. So, say that there was a widespread acceptance, including from the players themselves, that Bale and Ramsey did not merit automatic selection in the starting line up any more after this tournament, but they both wanted to keep on playing for Wales (not impossible given the almost unique atmosphere within Welsh squads in recent years and the commitment to the cause shown by both players throughout their careers), how would you feel about them eventually being selected in squads just for their influence?

I find it a tough one to answer because I wouldn't rule it out that the other players would want that to happen, but, on balance, I think I'd go for a clean break with the past - although if their ambitions stretched to managing the national team (unlikely in both cases I'd guess), I'd have a different opinion.

It is extremely tough to answer, especially as I have enthusiastically endorsed the likes of Williams and Gunter being part of the squad as a thank you for what they have both done for Welsh football. I am still finding it difficult to accept that both Bale and Ramsey are completely spent. I really do think the conditions in Qatar are playing into the hands of the fitter teams. Last night I believe that England fans found out that it is not so easy to play at 10pm in Qatar, whether there is pitch side air conditioning or not. I do think that other countries are naturally fitter or take their general fitness and stamina more seriously than we do in the UK, and I believe the USA showed themselves to be fitter. Thus I wonder if Bale and Ramsey’s lack of game time going into the tournament has been exacerbated by the conditions. It may be wishful thinking but they have another game to show us that there is still something in the tank, if they are picked of course.

On balance I think that there now needs to be a transition period rather than a complete overhaul and knee jerk reaction. I do feel that we, as fans, overlook the importance of experience and leadership, and both players bring experience that the Welsh coaching team just do not have. I’d also credit both of them with being able to know when they are not affecting games like they once did, and be aware of what the Welsh squad needs, as opposed to hanging on in their own self interests.

So, on reflection, I see no issue with Bale and Ramsey being part of the Euro 2024 qualifying campaign provided that we have a solid plan for ushering in the next generation.

[BLUETIT]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

It’s like an ageing boxer, they always want one last fight.

Thanks for the memories boys, stay with the squad to help bring on the youngsters, but please, for your own bodies sake, give up attempting 90 minutes of TOP CLASS FOOTBALL :wales::wales::wales:

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

My post in other thread this morning :

I can't get my head around why two internationally -reknowned footballers aged 31 and 33, could be so completely anonymous against average opponents for 90 minutes. When you're legs are going, you're off the pace, yes, the game is a struggle. But neither Bale or Ramsey could said to 'struggling' yesterday, they looked completely frozen.

Which brings me to my point. Yesterday was also a very sad day for all the players, many - maybe all - who may never go to another World Cup. As fellow professional footballers I wonder what their private thoughts might be. I think Bale, Ramsey, even Joe Allen possibly, have been nailed on to play whatever the circumstances, injury permitting - not to have played Bale or Ramsey for say, 45 minutes, would have been almost sacrilege to the 'together stronger' concept, and the media hype around Bale especially. But sadly, I don't think it was ever going to happen. In normal circumstances Bale and/or Ramsey would have been subbed at the latest by half time, but Page neither commands the authority, has the confidence, or probably both, to do that.

When all's said and done, this is a professional game being played at top level, but sentiment won the day

[goats]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

You make a good point, Bale looked devastated after the game, when you're as good as he's been, it must hard to accept that you're in the process of becoming a "mere mortal". -

Would be be better without them? After all they have done for us, maybe they deserve to be there for their one and only World Cup even though it’s clear that the glory days are over. Despite not playing well, things could have easily gone a bit differently at this level, a late winner v the USA? Keifers effort goes in early v Iran there heads might well have gone….? Ah well….I think we will lose to England as they will be bang up for it but you never know…..

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

Not for me and I don’t agree with the likes of Williams and Gunter being in the squad either.

Bale should surely now retire from international football. Ramsey is a different case for now as we have so few options in midfield.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

It is extremely tough to answer, especially as I have enthusiastically endorsed the likes of Williams and Gunter being part of the squad as a thank you for what they have both done for Welsh football. I am still finding it difficult to accept that both Bale and Ramsey are completely spent. I really do think the conditions in Qatar are playing into the hands of the fitter teams. Last night I believe that England fans found out that it is not so easy to play at 10pm in Qatar, whether there is pitch side air conditioning or not. I do think that other countries are naturally fitter or take their general fitness and stamina more seriously than we do in the UK, and I believe the USA showed themselves to be fitter. Thus I wonder if Bale and Ramsey’s lack of game time going into the tournament has been exacerbated by the conditions. It may be wishful thinking but they have another game to show us that there is still something in the tank, if they are picked of course.

On balance I think that there now needs to be a transition period rather than a complete overhaul and knee jerk reaction. I do feel that we, as fans, overlook the importance of experience and leadership, and both players bring experience that the Welsh coaching team just do not have. I’d also credit both of them with being able to know when they are not affecting games like they once did, and be aware of what the Welsh squad needs, as opposed to hanging on in their own self interests.

So, on reflection, I see no issue with Bale and Ramsey being part of the Euro 2024 qualifying campaign provided that we have a solid plan for ushering in the next generation.

Spain were an exception (but I wonder If Costa Rica were another team in a Wales type situation) to a rule whereby I've thought a lot of European sides have looked less fit and dynamic compared to sides from other continents, so I think where the tournament is taking place is having an effect, but, in Wales' case, I believe we would have struggled wherever it was played, because we had a lot of players without regular game time. It's strange, play a tournament in the summer and they saw the Europeans are tired after a long season, but, if anything, they look more lethargic in this competition being played half way through their season.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

It’s like an ageing boxer, they always want one last fight.

Thanks for the memories boys, stay with the squad to help bring on the youngsters, but please, for your own bodies sake, give up attempting 90 minutes of TOP CLASS FOOTBALL :wales::wales::wales:

Well put.

[blue matt]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

Would be be better without them? After all they have done for us, maybe they deserve to be there for their one and only World Cup even though it’s clear that the glory days are over. Despite not playing well, things could have easily gone a bit differently at this level, a late winner v the USA? Keifers effort goes in early v Iran there heads might well have gone….? Ah well….I think we will lose to England as they will be bang up for it but you never know…..

Im not sure we have better players than them, we have players who " might " turn into decent prem league players, but to take them instead of Bale and Rambo is just crazy, it would have been " for the experience " but why shouldn't Bale and Rambo have gone " for the World Cup experience and out of respect for all they have done " , its the same edge of the coin imho

football is a game of fine margins, Keifers early effort, Ben Davis shot right at the end, In they had gone in we are on 4 points and out of this group ( unless USA beat Iran )

[blue matt]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

as for the original question, I cant see a issue of them both being in the squad for the next campaign if they are playing, its not like Wales has a massive pool of players to pick from

[Hilts]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

Im not sure we have better players than them, we have players who " might " turn into decent prem league players, but to take them instead of Bale and Rambo is just crazy, it would have been " for the experience " but why shouldn't Bale and Rambo have gone " for the World Cup experience and out of respect for all they have done " , its the same edge of the coin imho

football is a game of fine margins, Keifers early effort, Ben Davis shot right at the end, In they had gone in we are on 4 points and out of this group ( unless USA beat Iran )

I think its straw clutching mentioning our 2 chances. Less face it they shoud have been comfortably ahead before their first.

[Des Parrot]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a glut of retirements after this tournament, I think we’re going to enter a long fallow period as we have a lot of good youngsters but no outstanding ones.

I think a few will want a last home farewell during the first few Euro qualifiers and then stop playing international football.

Bale, Rambo, Gunter, Williams, Hennessy, Allan may all decide to go.

[Hilts]

Re: Bale and Ramsey, a question.

My main concern isnt Bale and Ramsey its those coming through.

On the pair of them Ramsey if its any plus he seemed to be in the game and was running around a lot. The issue was dreadful passing , too many bad decisions. If he keeps match fit then I dont see why he cant continue. Lets face it we dont have any PL standard midfielders and arguably no championship standard central midfielders. Lets face it yesterday Ampadu our "best " young central midfielders passing was worse than Ramseys.

Bale is a different matter. Hes been anonymous. He will know himself the reasons. Is he carrying an injury where if he plays at 100% or even near 100% he will break down or has he just protected himself so much and hes just totally not match fit. Maybe its both. Is his heart in playing top level football anymore and Im sure it is for Wales but he needs to play for his club as well.

If he thinks his body can cope and he plays reguarly without injury then we would be mad to axe him. Thats a very big if though and if hes just going to be inactive like the last few seasons then it should be over.

It will be interesting the England line up and subs. I hope some younger players get an opportunity. We need to start seeing what theyve got.