Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

[Rjk]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

That's a good question - I hope the ridiculous decision to bring Isaak Davies, recently recovered from injury, on in the meaningless final game of last season at Derby was not down to the medical staff at City - Davies had to go off within five minutes and has not been seen in the first team since. I've always assumed that was a decision solely down to Steve Morison who early in 2022 was leaving Rubin Colwill out of the squad at a time when there was no talk of his growing pains and, as far as could be told, he was available every week (he was playing for the under 23s during that time).

I'm not sure who the three coaches the OP refers to are - Mick McCarthy was clearly a fan of Colwill and he was a regular in the squad at eighteen - I also can't remember him being out injured much under McCarthy, The same applies with Morison, he got Covid at the start of last season, but he was available all season apart from that and it was down to Mosison that he spent so long our of the the first team (Morison clearly didn't think he could have Colwill and the somewhat over rated, based on his performances for City, Tommy Doyle in the same starting line up).

Colwill's growing pains have only been an issue this season since he broke into first team contention and so I am still somewhat cynical about the whole thing because, first, I see no evidence of Colwill having "shot up" in the last few months and, second, because it appears that he's at an age where it's very rare to get growing pains.

In saying that, the OP makes some interesting points and it's clear that he knows more about how fitness is analysed in modern day players, but, when it comes down to it, he's only guessing like the rest of us are even if his guesses may be more well informed ones than most of us can manage.

One thing I didn't see in the OP's long analysis was a reference to Wales - there seems to be a difference approach adopted between club and country when it comes to Colwill.

I don't think growing pains are the correct term here, my kids had growing pains aged about 10, and it would never have stopped them from playing football.

[Bobby Dandruff]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

I was surprised when at kick off RC was talking to Kion Etete who looked an inch taller but probably well over a stone lighter. He is far broader and showed signs of using that size on boxing day. He'll end up a center-forward or 10 in a system that plays it on the ground but over time will get better in the air as he is a baby now in centre-forward terms.

We need to bring in a specialist coach to convert him from an aged group midfielder to a men's football center forward.

I can’t ever see Colwill as a centre forward. He has almost none of the required skills.

He is a number 10.

[Keyser Soze]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

It is easy to dismiss stuff as "over thinking" or "too old for growing pains". If you are medical or sport science minded here, are open-minded, and interested in latest research, this is just one medical reference you can find online which discussed hip pain in athletes.

https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2000/0401/p2109.html

Here it echoes what my chiropractor said to me, with a reference to the age of 25 being the final settling of growth plates, not the age of 18 as many used to assume:

"Usually, the last area to mature is the anterior superior iliac spine apophysis, which may be susceptible to injury up to age 25.Active young adults who are skeletally mature are at increased risk for stress fracture of the femoral neck.3 Older adults are at risk for degenerative arthritis4 and fracture of the femur and pelvis."

Several areas of the pelvis and the femur are likely to sustain injuries. In younger patients, nonossified bone present at growth plates such as the femoral head epiphysis and the anterior superior iliac spine apophysis is susceptible to injury until the skeleton matures (Figure 1). Maturation of these growth plates varies by site and among patients.

Comparing "what my boy had at 10" doesn't really help to analyse any player. Every player has different DNA, different bones / muscles sizes and ratios, different mental profile etc. On top of that, unless they were put through the same rigour and routine physical stress of a modern footballer no sensible comparison can be made.

It is a subject that goes into a lot of depth and can never be covered here for sure, but what we see as fans or even parents of children just isn't helpful in assessing the situation of a modern day professional footballer.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

I don't think growing pains are the correct term here, my kids had growing pains aged about 10, and it would never have stopped them from playing football.

Okay then, call them growth spurts or if the club are calling them something else then use that. Whatever they’re being called, it’s hard to see any evidence of them compared to last season. My doubts about all of this arise from us being told something which does not tie in with what I’m seeing.

[Rjk]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

Okay then, call them growth spurts or if the club are calling them something else then use that. Whatever they’re being called, it’s hard to see any evidence of them compared to last season. My doubts about all of this arise from us being told something which does not tie in with what I’m seeing.

well we can all only call it as we see it I suppose.

obviously the club aren't saying that every time he's picked up another injury he's grown another inch or two, but he's clearly has a late growth spurt and it seems to be causing him to pick up niggling injuries until his body gets used to itself, there may also be a psychological factor as Hudson was mentioning he needs to learn to trust his body again.

in the distant past he probably would have been thrown straight back in and picked up some bad injuries and have been washed up out of the game by 25 or something like that.

[Hilts]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

When I first saw him this season I thought he looked a lot bigger.

[Former Labour leader]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

Okay then, call them growth spurts or if the club are calling them something else then use that. Whatever they’re being called, it’s hard to see any evidence of them compared to last season. My doubts about all of this arise from us being told something which does not tie in with what I’m seeing.

Much of what the op said seems logical. I know things have been hinted at before about Colwill, but perhaps now it's the time to spill the beans?

[Rjk]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

When I first saw him this season I thought he looked a lot bigger.

yeah I think he's probably 6'3 or 6'4 now

[tomcat]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

You were doing well until I read the word "chiropractor" ...

[StraightOuttaCanton]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

You were doing well until I read the word "chiropractor" ...

I just read the thread from start to finish and I thought exactly the same thing when I got to that word.

[tomcat]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

I was talking to Darren Campbell years ago at one of my son's football games as his son and mine are friends. He had done some fitness training with some of the city players and was happy to discuss his findings, presumably as he wasn't involved any more. He was asked to do some speed work with Andrew Taylor, who flatly refused and rudely told him where to go. This was witnessed by the coaches, who did nothing 🤦*♂️. He was asked to work one on one with Rudy, dismantling his running style and movement rebuilding it slowly. He was jumping in the air awkwardly, jarring his back each time and they resolved that. He was getting him to jump over increasingly bigger hurdles and his balance was getting better and better. Part way through, that he was told that Rudy being sold. He told the coaches that there was great progress being made and that it was maybe a mistake as he was improving dramatically but nobody listened. Professional clubs don't use chiropractors, they use medically trained physiotherapists and doctors.

[Keyser Soze]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

I was talking to Darren Campbell years ago at one of my son's football games as his son and mine are friends. He had done some fitness training with some of the city players and was happy to discuss his findings, presumably as he wasn't involved any more. He was asked to do some speed work with Andrew Taylor, who flatly refused and rudely told him where to go. This was witnessed by the coaches, who did nothing 🤦*♂️. He was asked to work one on one with Rudy, dismantling his running style and movement rebuilding it slowly. He was jumping in the air awkwardly, jarring his back each time and they resolved that. He was getting him to jump over increasingly bigger hurdles and his balance was getting better and better. Part way through, that he was told that Rudy being sold. He told the coaches that there was great progress being made and that it was maybe a mistake as he was improving dramatically but nobody listened. Professional clubs don't use chiropractors, they use medically trained physiotherapists and doctors.

I am afraid you are out of your depth. In fact, Cardiff City use this one:

https://www.c3chiropractic.co.uk/conditions-we-treat/sports-injuries/

Whether a professional club uses a physio or a chiropractor depends on finances, severity of the injury, or how much demand is placed on a physio. If there is a big injury list they may outsource basic re-alignment activities to a chiropractor whilst they focus physios on rehabilitation or diagnostic activites. No two clubs are the same. Within sports nor across sports.

You also fluffed up on another point: if you read the original post carefully it was I that was visiting a chiropractor, not a professional player or a youth player that I coach. I am way beyond the age of a professional sports player and nor was I good enough to be one.

But a small tip from me. Do some basic diligence before throwing bombs eh? Especially in an area where, as it appears, you appear light on experience shall we say. You will only make yourself look a little silly. Waddle on.

[life on mars]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

The same demands and protocols would be applied to the lad whoever the physio or manager is , if they have it wrong as per the OP insightful post suggests , perhaps the club need to step back up and send him to a top class USA fitness / dietary centres for a season , or follow this lad advise

https://jackedgorilla.com/cristiano-ronaldo-workout-routine/

What seems key you need to exercise all parts of you body , sleep well , at least 8 hours , rest , work on weak areas, i.e. hamstrings ,cardio ,fat free diet boost metabolism ,

[dembethewarrior]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

I was talking to Darren Campbell years ago at one of my son's football games as his son and mine are friends. He had done some fitness training with some of the city players and was happy to discuss his findings, presumably as he wasn't involved any more. He was asked to do some speed work with Andrew Taylor, who flatly refused and rudely told him where to go. This was witnessed by the coaches, who did nothing 🤦*♂️. He was asked to work one on one with Rudy, dismantling his running style and movement rebuilding it slowly. He was jumping in the air awkwardly, jarring his back each time and they resolved that. He was getting him to jump over increasingly bigger hurdles and his balance was getting better and better. Part way through, that he was told that Rudy being sold. He told the coaches that there was great progress being made and that it was maybe a mistake as he was improving dramatically but nobody listened. Professional clubs don't use chiropractors, they use medically trained physiotherapists and doctors.

KS doesn't post unless it's informed, and he's got the info. Didn't you read the first post ;)

[tomcat]

Re: Rubin Colwill: A science-based view from an experienced coach

I am afraid you are out of your depth. In fact, Cardiff City use this one:

https://www.c3chiropractic.co.uk/conditions-we-treat/sports-injuries/

Whether a professional club uses a physio or a chiropractor depends on finances, severity of the injury, or how much demand is placed on a physio. If there is a big injury list they may outsource basic re-alignment activities to a chiropractor whilst they focus physios on rehabilitation or diagnostic activites. No two clubs are the same. Within sports nor across sports.

You also fluffed up on another point: if you read the original post carefully it was I that was visiting a chiropractor, not a professional player or a youth player that I coach. I am way beyond the age of a professional sports player and nor was I good enough to be one.

But a small tip from me. Do some basic diligence before throwing bombs eh? Especially in an area where, as it appears, you appear light on experience shall we say. You will only make yourself look a little silly. Waddle on.

You are aware that a chiropractor isn't medically qualified are you? A highly qualified spinal surgeon contact would like them to be banned from laying a finger on anyone. You seem to take yourself very seriously and love bigging yourself up in your posts though .