And so it goes on ( Sala )

[dml1954]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

I think it’s in no doubt that Sala was our player when the plane crashed

What is in question is possible illegal 3rd party involvement, banned agents, unlicensed pilots etc

Just highlights the murky world of international transfers

Sorry but what you say in the first sentence is just nonsense. If there was no doubt, do you really think that things would have gone on like this for so long. The advice City are receiving is obviously that there is considerable doubt whose player he was and also that there were other irregularities with the transfer.

[life on mars]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

We should show a sizable generosity to the family, that will not be seen as us admitting liability .

[xsnaggle]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

I know it will sound cold but I really don't get the comments about the family being poor and itb is City's fault. Why is it? they may have inherited more if the fee had been paid and he had died some time in the future but if he hadn't taken steps to provide for his family anyway why should that burden fall to CCFC?
I beleive the club agrred to set up some kind of tust and I think that is now going ahead after the removal of some obstructive lawyers, but that was the club being supportive.
I cannot see there is any legal obligation to give the family anything. Any insurance policy will be paid out once the matter is settled. In the mean time they are no worse off than they were.
I get the emotional thing and it's nice to be nice but I disagrre with people implying we 'must' do something.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

I know it will sound cold but I really don't get the comments about the family being poor and itb is City's fault. Why is it? they may have inherited more if the fee had been paid and he had died some time in the future but if he hadn't taken steps to provide for his family anyway why should that burden fall to CCFC?
I beleive the club agrred to set up some kind of tust and I think that is now going ahead after the removal of some obstructive lawyers, but that was the club being supportive.
I cannot see there is any legal obligation to give the family anything. Any insurance policy will be paid out once the matter is settled. In the mean time they are no worse off than they were.
I get the emotional thing and it's nice to be nice but I disagrre with people implying we 'must' do something.

it does sound cold.

[xsnaggle]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

it does sound cold.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be nasty but even saying it sounds cold would intimate that anythin would be a gesture and not a legal obligation.
That's the point I'm trying to get at is that whilst it is a good thing to do there is no such obligation.

[goats]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

I think it’s in no doubt that Sala was our player when the plane crashed

What is in question is possible illegal 3rd party involvement, banned agents, unlicensed pilots etc

Just highlights the murky world of international transfers

So if he was legally ours don’t we get insurance to cover it? I would have thought that’s standard procedure

[surge]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

He had signed, he was our player, he was paraded around the ground with the shirt on.

The only reason he was on the plane was because he was due back here following his return to Nantes to collect belongings etc.

I appreciate those in charge of the clubs finances aren't just going to pay but I also find it incredibly hard to believe any decision will come out in our favour.

Marcus Bent was announced on the club website but ended up a Birmingham player.

But I don't know what is happening with the case any more. Think Nantes have done more publicly to show respect to the player but hope both clubs focus is on supporting the family first and foremost.

[MacAdder]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

Cardiff City FC have conducted themselves properly since the tragic accident and the fact that Emiliano's family have had to suffer the long wait for justice is no fault of CCFC.

If people have done wrong then the process of bringing them to justice should be allowed to take its course.

[RonnieBird]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

I think it’s in no doubt that Sala was our player when the plane crashed

What is in question is possible illegal 3rd party involvement, banned agents, unlicensed pilots etc

Just highlights the murky world of international transfers

I think that's the whole point isn't it ?
If this allegation is true then he was still a Nantes player when he died.

[jon1959]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

So if he was legally ours don’t we get insurance to cover it? I would have thought that’s standard procedure

This WOL piece from almost 2 years ago covers most of the contentious issues (and there are loads of other pieces from the football insurance press and general media online). What it doesn't deal with is Emiliano Sala's personal insurance position (very relevant to his immediate family now) which I have seen discussed elsewhere. If he was a properly transferred and registered EPL player with Cardiff he was fully covered. If not the insurers would dispute liability. My understanding (maybe wrong) is that they are disputing liability and his family have not received anything from that source - but where the fault for that lies is at the heart of the CIS case.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cardiff-city-emiliano-sala-contract-15941596

[RonnieBird]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

I still have doubts whether Sala's registration had been legally transferred from Nantes to Cardiff at the time of the crash.

I don't think his eligibility to play in the Premier League or not is the issue (he could be a Cardiff player and still ineligible on various technicalities) but despite all the reports and threads on this I still don't know if the transfer was properly completed. The club's position that the contract documentation was invalid - and that it would have been revised and re-signed after Sala's return to Cardiff to deal with the contract anomalies - sounds plausible to me. That was not considered by FIFA and is the basis of the appeal to CIS.

The role of the McKays (still at the time acting for Nantes) in arranging the flight is a separate reason for disputing the FIFA judgement.

I find myself agreeing with you !
Under French law he remains their employee until they have paid him all monies owed.

They claim that they somehow decided at 9.15 pm - shortly before his death - to issue a cheque in respect of this sum.

However it seems implausible that someone was in personnel at Nantes FC signing cheques at that time of the evening , and it is impossible to explain why they would have made the cheque to his family rather than him at a time when he wasn't dead and no one had any reason to suspect that he might be.

The suggestion , of course, is that they falsely backdated this cheque to make it appear that he was no longer an employee of Nantes FC, and had ceased to be shortly before his unexpected and unfortunate death.

[cardiff55]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

This story has a long way to run I think. Sala would have appeared to be City player, even if the paperwork was incorrect. That could have been sorted out when he arrived in Cardiff.

As said by someone above, they money is accounted for. That doesn't mean it is sat in an account somewhere, just that City's accounts have mad a provision for it. I think it's an overstatement to say City will go bust because of it. We paid for Madine, and the agent fees, signing on fees and two years worth of wages too, and may have even had to pay him off. That accounts for a lot more than the transfer fee of a reported £6m. The club is still around.

It is right for the club to fight the case and not simply hand over the money. It could cost a lot but the club may win. If they lose I reckon the club will go after the other people involved, we know who they are. We were supposedly paying £15m for a player valued at £6m six months before, various third parties were involved in the deal and where was all the money going? How much were Nantes due to receive for the player, not the £15m quoted I suspect. Maybe half of it with rest going to the third parties. The same people who arranged the flight that ended up in his death. And we surprisingly had the two McKay brothers on our books at the time, players who have done not a lot in the game. We also have not paid out in wages/NI etc for the two years , but conversely do not have an asset we can sell on, even at a reduced amount.

I think will be lots of twists and turns over the next couple of years on this one.

And the club fighting Isaacs and Hammam in court too at the moment. How much more does Hammam want our club to bleed for him?

[RonnieBird]

Re: And so it goes on ( Sala )

This story has a long way to run I think. Sala would have appeared to be City player, even if the paperwork was incorrect. That could have been sorted out when he arrived in Cardiff.

As said by someone above, they money is accounted for. That doesn't mean it is sat in an account somewhere, just that City's accounts have mad a provision for it. I think it's an overstatement to say City will go bust because of it. We paid for Madine, and the agent fees, signing on fees and two years worth of wages too, and may have even had to pay him off. That accounts for a lot more than the transfer fee of a reported £6m. The club is still around.

It is right for the club to fight the case and not simply hand over the money. It could cost a lot but the club may win. If they lose I reckon the club will go after the other people involved, we know who they are. We were supposedly paying £15m for a player valued at £6m six months before, various third parties were involved in the deal and where was all the money going? How much were Nantes due to receive for the player, not the £15m quoted I suspect. Maybe half of it with rest going to the third parties. The same people who arranged the flight that ended up in his death. And we surprisingly had the two McKay brothers on our books at the time, players who have done not a lot in the game. We also have not paid out in wages/NI etc for the two years , but conversely do not have an asset we can sell on, even at a reduced amount.

I think will be lots of twists and turns over the next couple of years on this one.

And the club fighting Isaacs and Hammam in court too at the moment. How much more does Hammam want our club to bleed for him?

"This story has a long way to run I think. Sala would have appeared to be City player, even if the paperwork was incorrect. That could have been sorted out when he arrived in Cardiff.


Unfortunately, what appeared to be the case and what could have happened is beside the point.
What counts is what actually was the the position at the time of the death.
In French ,(Roman) law, such matters are taken very literally indeed and there is less room for interpretation than might be the case in this country.
If by this literal interpretation they still owed him salary at the time of his death , he was still their employee and, by extension, the transfer had not been completed. Now, if that completion had not taken place at the time of his death , it was obviously no longer capable of being completed and therefore null and void.

That's one thing, and is compellng evidence that the debt cannot exist and therefore cannot be enforced.

More dramatically , if it can be proven to the satisfaction of the Examining Magistrates that Nantes FC deliberately concealed this situation by presenting a cheque with a falsified date and time , then it becomes quite a serious matter of criminal fraud.