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Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Was struck by the picture on the news last night of the eight left in the race for PM
Two white males
Two white ladies
Two males of a ethnic group
Two ladies of a ethnic group
Kemi Badenoch ( well impressed by this lady , would rock politics if she won )
Suella Braverman ( strong willed lady )
Jeremy Hunt. ( sensible )
Penny Mordaunt. ( could be the dark horse , spoke well on LBC last night her campaign video is due this morning )
Rishi Sunak. ( bright spark too rich )
Liz Truss. ( mad as a box of frogs )
Tom Tugendhat ( not a Boris fan , before all this happened )
Nadhim Zahawi. ( incredible refugee back story )
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
I don't think they are more diverse no. I think it's a fact that they are not. However, they certainly have a better record in promoting and actually putting in power people who are not white men. I think the general philosophy of 'talent' being the determinant as opposed to identity means it is inevitable. Various Tory cabinets have of course been more diverse, last three chancellors have all been of asian heritage, two female prime ministers etc.
Where they do fall down is in terms of schools and class background etc, although every party does pretty poorly in that respect unfortunately.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
I note from wikipedia that Francis Baring, Whig chancellor from 1839 to 1841 was born in Calcutta mind..so maybe thats 1-0 to the Lib Dems?!
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Was struck by the picture on the news last night of the eight left in the race for PM
Two white males
Two white ladies
Two males of a ethnic group
Two ladies of a ethnic group
Kemi Badenoch ( well impressed by this lady , would rock politics if she won )
Suella Braverman ( strong willed lady )
Jeremy Hunt. ( sensible )
Penny Mordaunt. ( could be the dark horse , spoke well on LBC last night her campaign video is due this morning )
Rishi Sunak. ( bright spark too rich )
Liz Truss. ( mad as a box of frogs )
Tom Tugendhat ( not a Boris fan , before all this happened )
Nadhim Zahawi. ( incredible refugee back story )
Nothing to do with his ethnicity or background but Zahawi came over as a bit of a chump on Radio 4 this morning.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I note from wikipedia that Francis Baring, Whig chancellor from 1839 to 1841 was born in Calcutta mind..so maybe thats 1-0 to the Lib Dems?!
Boris was born in USA
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
Boris was born in USA
Yeah I know. Bruce Springsteen wrote a song about him
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Nothing to do with his ethnicity or background but Zahawi came over as a bit of a chump on Radio 4 this morning.
He's impressive I think, in the way contestants on the apprentice are..he should have a role in government, though I don't think as PM. He's not strong enough IMO
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Are only Tories called Ladies? A bit Victorian surely.
There may be a wider representation with regards to gender and ethnicity but I think they are all are from the same social background.
I suspect the party membership is less diverse but generally from the same social background.
What they need is a strong woman from a 'working' background, such as a greengrocers daughter.
Oh hold on ....
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Harry Lime
Are only Tories called Ladies? A bit Victorian surely.
There may be a wider representation with regards to gender and ethnicity but I think they are all are from the same social background.
I suspect the party membership is less diverse but generally from the same social background.
What they need is a strong woman from a 'working' background, such as a greengrocers daughter.
Oh hold on ....
Beat me to it. None of those Tories, whatever colour or culture, represent my social background.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Nothing to do with his ethnicity or background but Zahawi came over as a bit of a chump on Radio 4 this morning.
Yes sadly the same on LBC last night in the excellent Ian Dale show , he was very unsure think, he is a driven person and bright just lacks that slickness .
Penny Mordant was on straight after and there was a stark difference especially with the live callers , you can see why she is liked .
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I don't think they are more diverse no. I think it's a fact that they are not. However, they certainly have a better record in promoting and actually putting in power people who are not white men. I think the general philosophy of 'talent' being the determinant as opposed to identity means it is inevitable. Various Tory cabinets have of course been more diverse, last three chancellors have all been of asian heritage, two female prime ministers etc.
Where they do fall down is in terms of schools and class background etc, although every party does pretty poorly in that respect unfortunately.
So if the main determinant is talent was Boris some form of laboratory experiment to prove that talent is needed as for the time he has been in charge I am not sure what his real talents are that are of value to being PM
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harry Lime
Are only Tories called Ladies? A bit Victorian surely.
There may be a wider representation with regards to gender and ethnicity but I think they are all are from the same social background.
I suspect the party membership is less diverse but generally from the same social background.
What they need is a strong woman from a 'working' background, such as a greengrocers daughter.
Oh hold on ....
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just 3.8% of the British electorate are poised to elect the next Prime Minister. Of these people:<br><br>70% are men<br>44% are over 65<br>97% are white<br>55% live in London & the South <br><br>This is how we ended up with Johnson.</p>— Gyll King (@GyllKing) <a href="https://twitter.com/GyllKing/status/1546253916664373248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Nobody's Rep
So if the main determinant is talent was Boris some form of laboratory experiment to prove that talent is needed as for the time he has been in charge I am not sure what his real talents are that are of value to being PM
That's why I wrote talent as 'talent'. That said, the bloke run London for 8 years and got the country through the pandemic, but this is a different argument alltogether.
I think the Tories are probably better at ignoring someones colour nowadays and just letting those who rise to the top to do so.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
lardy
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just 3.8% of the British electorate are poised to elect the next Prime Minister. Of these people:<br><br>70% are men<br>44% are over 65<br>97% are white<br>55% live in London & the South <br><br>This is how we ended up with Johnson.</p>— Gyll King (@GyllKing) <a href="https://twitter.com/GyllKing/status/1546253916664373248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
That's the rules though isn't it. Same with Gordon Brown and same (more or less) with Drakeford when he replaced Carwyn Jones
It's imperfect, I agree.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
He's impressive I think, in the way contestants on the apprentice are..he should have a role in government, though I don't think as PM. He's not strong enough IMO
He wasn't impressive this morning. Sounded rather rudderless and very unconvincing.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Here we go the next PM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...campaign-video
Bit different campaign too the others its not about me, me, videos ..
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
Not that this is of great importance, but I do quite fancy Penny Mordaunt. :shrug:
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Can somebody explain to me why it's a good thing in Britain that there are fewer "white men"?
And i don't know why some are getting in a tizzy over this leadership race. Yeah it's something to discuss but Nothing meaningful will change. Both Labour and Tory are neo liberal puppets. Our system is owned by the Rothchilds(International banking)
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Can somebody explain to me why it's a good thing in Britain that there are fewer "white men"?
And i don't know why some are getting in a tizzy over this leadership race. Yeah it's something to discuss but Nothing meaningful will change. Both Labour and Tory are neo liberal puppets. Our system is owned by the Rothchilds(International banking)
It's not. Everyone is equal. No one group is better or worse than any other. A community is not better or worse than any other due to a lack or abundance of any other group; it may be less interesting I suppose, but it is no better or worse. There are many ways to judge a society, but characteristics we cannot control shouldn't be one of them.
That said, in the context of this discussion, it is generally no bad thing that a governing party or organisation is broadly reflective of the society they serve. So whilst I think the constant references to skin colour are often unhelpful, it is worthy of note here perhaps.
And yes, identity politics is divisive, which is why I have do little time for it.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Pleased that Zahawi has been eliminated but disappointed that Hunt has. I think he would have been a good choice, especially as he was not a cabinet member, hence "untainted" when Johnson met his demise.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Not that this is of great importance, but I do quite fancy Penny Mordaunt. :shrug:
She speak well of you I believe James........
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Can somebody explain to me why it's a good thing in Britain that there are fewer "white men"?
Because as you keep banging on about, Britain is not a country of just white men so our leadership should reflect that
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
They are all tories, in it for themselves
Penny Mordaunt is only concerned with looking in the mirror . She would shoot her grandmother if it got her power , utterly ruthless horrible tory . Low tax , low state and all that bollocks .
Sunak is a snake as well .
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Pleased that Zahawi has been eliminated but disappointed that Hunt has. I think he would have been a good choice, especially as he was not a cabinet member, hence "untainted" when Johnson met his demise.
Jeremy Hunt when Health Secretary had huge interests in private health companies
He's a snake
All the Tories are snakes
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
delmbox
Because as you keep banging on about, Britain is not a country of just white men so our leadership should reflect that
Bravo Delmbox. So it's not the best man or woman for the job then?
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Jeremy Hunt when Health Secretary had huge interests in private health companies
He's a snake
All the Tories are snakes
I'm not really into the Labour/Tory pantomime that you seem to love and really believe in. Brexit aside there's little between them. Having said that didn't a lot more Labour MPs do prison time for fraud? I read it on here the other day so it must be true.
Is Tony Blair a snake with all his war lies and money making endevours?
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Bravo Delmbox. So it's not the best man or woman for the job then?
Johnson has been the PM for three years, so clearly notm
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
lardy
Johnson has been the PM for three years, so clearly notm
Ypur personal opinion of Boris is irrelevant to the point that Delmbox made.
I have my issues with Boris and the fake Conservatives currently running the Tory party.
But Boris is a highly gifted brain and won a landslide GE, who are you to argue with that? he essentially had to quit because some gay guy groped another man, such is the wokeness of politics today.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Ypur personal opinion of Boris is irrelevant to the point that Delmbox made.
I have my issues with Boris and the fake Conservatives currently running the Tory party.
But Boris is a highly gifted brain and won a landslide GE, who are you to argue with that? he essentially had to quit because some gay guy groped another man, such is the wokeness of politics today.
“A highly gifted brain” :hehe:. If you’re the type who is impressed by verbose, rambling, deceitful and self indulgent wordplay maybe you could think that, but you’re missing the point. Johnson didn’t have to go because “some gay guy groped another man” , it was because of how he dealt with the fall out from some gay guy groping another man as the line about what Johnson knew and didn’t know changed almost by the hour over a period of days until in the end, this “highly gifted brain” had got himself into a position where his defence became that he had forgotten something he’d been told concerning Mr Pincher - this after, not for the first time, Cabinet members had been sent out to meet the media to maintain a line that had, in one case, changed while they were doing the media rounds.
Come on though, it’s not Johnson’s brain that really pushes your buttons is it. He’s a fine figure of a man (well compared to some of us he is) and that mane of golden hair! He’s almost Aryan isn’t he! The sort of “beautiful” native Briton (well Yank in his case) you were getting so excited about in another thread - no cross breeding there eh!
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Ypur personal opinion of Boris is irrelevant to the point that Delmbox made.
I have my issues with Boris and the fake Conservatives currently running the Tory party.
But Boris is a highly gifted brain and won a landslide GE, who are you to argue with that? he essentially had to quit because some gay guy groped another man, such is the wokeness of politics today.
Johnson was the best person to lead the Tories in the election. He's since proven himself not to be the best person to be PM.
Is it just my personal opinion? Well let's see.
He was running increasingly bad numbers in polling, with the majority of people wanting him out by the end.
In a vote of confidence, he narrowly won but the majority of his own backbenchers wanted him out. He had enough ministers to get him over the line, but within weeks 50+ of them had resigned - even ones that he had appointed hours earlier!
So yeah, I'm pretty ok with my personal opinion on this one.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Not that this is of great importance, but I do quite fancy Penny Mordaunt. :shrug:
Yes she has a naughty look 49 pretty lady , love the hair , like a nice head of hair , if she comes up short she might be good a good chief whip with sex pest Chris Heaton-Harris gone
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
“A highly gifted brain” :hehe:. If you’re the type who is impressed by verbose, rambling, deceitful and self indulgent wordplay maybe you could think that, but you’re missing the point. Johnson didn’t have to go because “some gay guy groped another man” , it was because of how he dealt with the fall out from some gay guy groping another man as the line about what Johnson knew and didn’t know changed almost by the hour over a period of days until in the end, this “highly gifted brain” had got himself into a position where his defence became that he had forgotten something he’d been told concerning Mr Pincher - this after, not for the first time, Cabinet members had been sent out to meet the media to maintain a line that had, in one case, changed while they were doing the media rounds.
Come on though, it’s not Johnson’s brain that really pushes your buttons is it. He’s a fine figure of a man (well compared to some of us he is) and that mane of golden hair! He’s almost Aryan isn’t he! The sort of “beautiful” native Briton (well Yank in his case) you were getting so excited about in another thread - no cross breeding there eh!
Hello Bob, Listening to a programme on radio 4 this week, many Boris's former teachers said he was the quickest learner they taught. IQ in it's purest form is ability to learn. He's an oxbridge graduate who stood out, even back then for his ability during debates. I don't think many, even his opponents doubt his intellect. Suggesting that i think he's intelligent because he has blonde hair is just silly and not worth a full response. The anti brexit media have completely wound you up into a frenzy over Boris. As if Starmer would be allowed by international finance to dramatically alter course from the Tories. He wouldn't be allowed. Starmer is Tory-lite whose economic policies would probably closely mirror Boris's, all you'd get with Labour is more woke crap. The real change candidate for Labour was Corbyn but the zionist media, which you gorge on daily destroyed Corbyn. Do you think Corbyn was anti semetic? In the past I've seen you suggest that you think he was...
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
lardy
Johnson was the best person to lead the Tories in the election. He's since proven himself not to be the best person to be PM.
Is it just my personal opinion? Well let's see.
He was running increasingly bad numbers in polling, with the majority of people wanting him out by the end.
In a vote of confidence, he narrowly won but the majority of his own backbenchers wanted him out. He had enough ministers to get him over the line, but within weeks 50+ of them had resigned - even ones that he had appointed hours earlier!
So yeah, I'm pretty ok with my personal opinion on this one.
Most prime ministers get ousted out in the end. It's the nature of the job. Doesn't mean they weren't fit for office.
In a democracy the best person to lead the country is the one who wins a GE. Unless you don't agree with "the wisdom of crowds" and democracy...
He would've still beaten Starmer in a GE, which is why Labour were desperate for him to go
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Most prime ministers get ousted out in the end. It's the nature of the job. Doesn't mean they weren't fit for office.
In a democracy the best person to lead the country is the one who wins a GE. Unless you don't agree with "the wisdom of crowds" and democracy...
He would've still beaten Starmer in a GE, which is why Labour were desperate for him to go
You stick to your guns mate :thumbup:
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Johnson was the best person to lead the Tories in the election. He's since proven himself not to be the best person to be PM.
Is it just my personal opinion? Well let's see.
He was running increasingly bad numbers in polling, with the majority of people wanting him out by the end.
In a vote of confidence, he narrowly won but the majority of his own backbenchers wanted him out. He had enough ministers to get him over the line, but within weeks 50+ of them had resigned - even ones that he had appointed hours earlier!
So yeah, I'm pretty ok with my personal opinion on this one.
The Tories will miss his campaigning skills , highly intelligent , barmy , lazy , funny , annoying , doesn't care about rules ,happy to upset folk , doesn't think or care happy to use unfortunate descriptions of people ( like a footy /pub lad thing ) which he describes as being "wholly satirical," while others have been taken out of context. there areas some truths to that as the pillar box one was where he was defencing ( badly )
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...burqa-comments
https://www.businessinsider.com/bori...19-6?r=US&IR=T
I can see lads/men saying stuff like this back in the day :
"The unanimous opinion is that what has been called the 'Tottymeter' reading is higher than at any Labour Party conference in living memory," he wrote.
He added that: "Time and again the 'Tottymeter' has gone off as a young woman delegate mounts the rostrum."
He has a runaway mouth another classic He once said, 'Voting Tory will cause your wife to have bigger breasts' if anyone thinks that it is nothing but banter then they have never been out for few pints and fecked up themselves
Do I hate him ( no )
Was he the right PM at the time ( yes the alternative opposition leader was dreadful )
Would I have a pint with him (oh yes )
Have I met him yes briefly ( mad as a box of frogs )
Did he do good stuff as PM in exceptionally difficult times (yes)
Was he a different type of PM (oh yes)
Is he lazy and hates detail ( yes ,and a reason for his downfall )
Did he make stupid baffling decision ( oh yes )
Was he too loyal to the sext pests and others who let him down badly oh yes ( way too loyal )
Did he have to go yes as he is tainted by the past .
Was he too soft on how No 10 was run ( yep, you cant be a PM and nice, ask Blair or Brown , as some folk can smell a weakness and take advantage and power brings feck wits )
What struck me everyone knows the above way before he was PM , and he still romped to a 80 seat majority with broken politcial party and pulled in opposition votes, a lot was down to Brexit ,n anti Terresa May , Corbyn ,Diane Abbott , anti-Semitism , but a lot was down to him being liked for who he was .
Now he has gone and Sir Keir's and a big vote winner has gone , how will that play out I wonder ???
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
life on mars
The Tories will miss his campaigning skills , highly intelligent , barmy , lazy , funny , annoying , doesn't care about rules ,happy to upset folk , doesn't think or care happy to use unfortunate descriptions of people ( like a footy /pub lad thing ) which he describes as being "wholly satirical," while others have been taken out of context. there areas some truths to that as the pillar box one was where he was defencing ( badly )
I can see lads/men saying stuff like this back in the day
You have to wonder who reached this conclusion at the time of the burka quote:
Quote:
It's not even a funny joke it was a insult in case anyone has forgotten he then followed it up with a suggestion about bank robbers , it's a typical white upper class twit jibe ,which they think they can make out of some deluded thought born from being a toff , were all supposed to say ,oh silly old Boris, or silky old Prince Phillip , there upper class snobs and arrogant with it.
Most of us, although not supportive of the gear they wear as it is suppressing womanhood in its very nature, and I'm guessing a lot would not be allowed out if not worn, would never utter these Boris type views , his privalge allows him to get away with it ,in this age of disliking foreigners.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
You have to wonder who reached this conclusion at the time of the burka quote:
More "Whack-a-Mole" stuff. They keep coming back for more, don't they?
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
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Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Bravo Delmbox. So it's not the best man or woman for the job then?
When has it ever been the best man or woman for the job?!
But also assuming that that is the case, I'm sorry to ruin your attempt at a gotcha but I didn't say our leader, I said our leadership, which means that the people in charge should be from a diverse mix of backgrounds, so it's a good thing that the group of people in charge from which the leader will be picked from is diverse. You obviously think that 8 white men would be better but you're just filled with anger, resentment and prejudice so who cares
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
You have to wonder who reached this conclusion at the time of the burka quote:
I don't think the Tories will miss Johnson now because he ceased to be Johnson. He became a damaged brand. I do think that parties need a variety of different types of politician, and a 'Johnson-type', ie broadly jovial, friendly, un-PC, shoots from the hip, imperfect, gets things done, blah de blah does have a role to play and we will miss that character, but I think his brand was trashed, not entirely fairly IMO, but thats how it is.
Will be interesting to see what kind of cabinet the new leader builds, because someone fitting that role is useful, and key to retaining some of the appeal Johnson offered. In terms of the critique of identity politics, Kemi Badenoch does offer some of that, and it will be interesting to see generally white, generally middle class, left wingers get their heads in a spin being confused at the identity game they helped to create.
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Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I don't think the Tories will miss Johnson now because he ceased to be Johnson.
People may have stopped falling for it, but Johnson was Johnson from beginning to end.
