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Conservatives Vote Getting Split
For a long time those that don't vote Tory.......the majority of the electorate .....have been stuffed by the fact that Labour, liberals and the other parties have been split .....allowing the Tories to rule
But the growth of farage means that the Tories themselves are seeing their right wing vote turn away
I think reform are a dangerous bunch but in terms of the general election the tories are in big trouble with reform stuffing them allowing both Labour and the liberals to win in marginal seats
Which will unless things change lead to a big Labour majority
I never thought I would say this but it seems like Farage is doing the dirty work
Hopefully once the election is over a number of exposes can show up reform for what they are
If there were only 2 parties to vote for and one of them was reform then I would hold my nose and vote Tory if they were the only option
Some of the comments on YouTube regarding reform are beyond comprehension
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
They are the non thinking person’s party. If they were put under an atom of scrutiny they would be found out. Just a load of old men shouting.
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
They are the non thinking person’s party. If they were put under an atom of scrutiny they would be found out. Just a load of old men shouting.
I did know one bloke who was a farage fan but he's senile
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
They are the non thinking person’s party. If they were put under an atom of scrutiny they would be found out. Just a load of old men shouting.
The "non-thinking persons party". It's when people like you say stuff like that that makes them more appealing to people!
How can you not see that?!
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
The "non-thinking persons party". It's when people like you say stuff like that that makes them more appealing to people!
How can you not see that?!
I rest my case. Sign here…….
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
I rest my case. Sign here…….
Yeah, don't become a lawyer!
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
I rest my case. Sign here…….
:hehe:
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
They are the non thinking person’s party. If they were put under an atom of scrutiny they would be found out. Just a load of old men shouting.
In two sentences you just summed up Labour voters in Whales and Westminster in general…..:thumbup:
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
For a long time those that don't vote Tory.......the majority of the electorate .....have been stuffed by the fact that Labour, liberals and the other parties have been split .....allowing the Tories to rule
But the growth of farage means that the Tories themselves are seeing their right wing vote turn away
I think reform are a dangerous bunch but in terms of the general election the tories are in big trouble with reform stuffing them allowing both Labour and the liberals to win in marginal seats
Which will unless things change lead to a big Labour majority
I never thought I would say this but it seems like Farage is doing the dirty work
Hopefully once the election is over a number of exposes can show up reform for what they are
If there were only 2 parties to vote for and one of them was reform then I would hold my nose and vote Tory if they were the only option
Some of the comments on YouTube regarding reform are beyond comprehension
Whaaaaat? Did you just say you’d vote Tory? Jeez sludge can’t believe you flipped so easily? Your aliken to one of those Bridgend/valleys football fan who switches allegiance when the going gets tough…..I knew it…:wave:
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Whaaaaat? Did you just say you’d vote Tory? Jeez sludge can’t believe you flipped so easily? Your aliken to one of those Bridgend/valleys football fan who switches allegiance when the going gets tough…..I knew it…:wave:
If there were only 2 options and that was reform who are basically a home for very right wing voters and the conservatives and voting Conservative would keep the reform nutcases out of power then I would have no choice but to reluctantly vote conservative
If I didn't vote and reform got in power my father and grandfather would come back from the grave to kill me
What would you do ?
If you say vote reform get your coat and naff off
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
If the Conservatives do as badly as some polls are suggesting they will (i.e. winning less than a hundred seats), I wonder if their attitude to proportional representation will change? It should do really if you look at what would be their new position strategically.
Interesting You Gov poll overnight, Conservatives on just eighteen per cent, one point above Reform with the Lib Dems up four at fifteen, the Greens have gone up one as well. Is there a movement away from the two main parties taking place? It's too early to say when it comes to the Labour party, but their fall of three points to thirty eight per cent comes on top of a drop of a point or two in many polls last week.
Even if the Labour vote is slipping, it's hard to see now how we're going to get anything other than a Labour majority Government, but, surely, one of the best arguments ever in favour of proportional representation would be if they got a majority of over three figures while winning less of the vote than Corbyn's party did in 2017.
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
If there were only 2 options and that was reform who are basically a home for very right wing voters and the conservatives and voting Conservative would keep the reform nutcases out of power then I would have no choice but to reluctantly vote conservative
If I didn't vote and reform got in power my father and grandfather would come back from the grave to kill me
What would you do ?
If you say vote reform get your coat and naff off
You said you’d vote Tory, forget the rest of it…..I can’t believe it
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
If the Conservatives do as badly as some polls are suggesting they will (i.e. winning less than a hundred seats), I wonder if their attitude to proportional representation will change? It should do really if you look at what would be their new position strategically.
Interesting You Gov poll overnight, Conservatives on just eighteen per cent, one point above Reform with the Lib Dems up four at fifteen, the Greens have gone up one as well. Is there a movement away from the two main parties taking place? It's too early to say when it comes to the Labour party, but their fall of three points to thirty eight per cent comes on top of a drop of a point or two in many polls last week.
Even if the Labour vote is slipping, it's hard to see now how we're going to get anything other than a Labour majority Government, but, surely, one of the best arguments ever in favour of proportional representation would be if they got a majority of over three figures while winning less of the vote than Corbyn's party did in 2017.
I can see a low turn out, probably the lowest ever. People have had enough
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
If there were only 2 options and that was reform who are basically a home for very right wing voters and the conservatives and voting Conservative would keep the reform nutcases out of power then I would have no choice but to reluctantly vote conservative
If I didn't vote and reform got in power my father and grandfather would come back from the grave to kill me
What would you do ?
If you say vote reform get your coat and naff off
Problem with reform is what they say/pledge appeals to many, like not pay tax fir self employed to 20k, scrapping VAT on energy bills, cutting foreign aid ( as they no most ends up with criminals but do it anyway), corporation tax go 20%, no interest on student loans And it goes on targeting almost every type of group….they all pledge this and that, rarely happens = apathy abounds
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
You said you’d vote Tory, forget the rest of it…..I can’t believe it
I would deffo vote conservative if the alternative would be farage and reform running the country
Definitely the lesser of two evils
There will be no messing about if that ever becomes the choice
Reform is the end of the world
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Problem with reform is what they say/pledge appeals to many, like not pay tax fir self employed to 20k, scrapping VAT on energy bills, cutting foreign aid ( as they no most ends up with criminals but do it anyway), corporation tax go 20%, no interest on student loans And it goes on targeting almost every type of group….they all pledge this and that, rarely happens = apathy abounds
They are a right wing , populist party
They will take false promises to a new level
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
If the Conservatives do as badly as some polls are suggesting they will (i.e. winning less than a hundred seats), I wonder if their attitude to proportional representation will change? It should do really if you look at what would be their new position strategically.
Interesting You Gov poll overnight, Conservatives on just eighteen per cent, one point above Reform with the Lib Dems up four at fifteen, the Greens have gone up one as well. Is there a movement away from the two main parties taking place? It's too early to say when it comes to the Labour party, but their fall of three points to thirty eight per cent comes on top of a drop of a point or two in many polls last week.
Even if the Labour vote is slipping, it's hard to see now how we're going to get anything other than a Labour majority Government, but, surely, one of the best arguments ever in favour of proportional representation would be if they got a majority of over three figures while winning less of the vote than Corbyn's party did in 2017.
PR will give reform a lot of seats
If we say they get around ten percent , maybe more , of the vote then that's going to have to be represented
If the country goes down that route ......and I think we should .....then the parties that are opposed to their sort of politics better be ready to take them on
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Sludge I've asked a few times and yet to get a clear response on why you think Labour will solve it alleviate the problems we face?
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
They are a right wing , populist party
They will take false promises to a new level
I know that, but does the general population?? Look at Brexit? They got sucked in…..
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Sludge I've asked a few times and yet to get a clear response on why you think Labour will solve it alleviate the problems we face?
He cant can he? They need to get control of utilities to start with, put more money in peoples pockets, I’m not sure there’s any point in saying the nhs as it just won’t happen. We definitely need a huge recruitment of Doctors though, hopefully that will sort out the insane waiting time for ambulances at a&e. The crazy amount of immigrants is costing us a fortune too and there’s people born and bread here that need it just as much.
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
For a long time those that don't vote Tory.......the majority of the electorate .....have been stuffed by the fact that Labour, liberals and the other parties have been split .....allowing the Tories to rule
But the growth of farage means that the Tories themselves are seeing their right wing vote turn away
I think reform are a dangerous bunch but in terms of the general election the tories are in big trouble with reform stuffing them allowing both Labour and the liberals to win in marginal seats
Which will unless things change lead to a big Labour majority
I never thought I would say this but it seems like Farage is doing the dirty work
Hopefully once the election is over a number of exposes can show up reform for what they are
If there were only 2 parties to vote for and one of them was reform then I would hold my nose and vote Tory if they were the only option
Some of the comments on YouTube regarding reform are beyond comprehension
Labour have taken the middle ground, that's the only way to win, ideally slightly right of middle is the bulk of voters.
Yes Farage has finished the tory's for a long time, lets hope labour aren't lying about their borrowing and taxation, they probably are but lets see, there are easy ways to avoid paying too much tax.
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Sludge I've asked a few times and yet to get a clear response on why you think Labour will solve it alleviate the problems we face?
They won't have the first clue, God help us if we have another pandemic we will lock down forever !!!
People earning a decent living will lose out, people who rely on handouts will benefit, and immigration will grow at at even faster rate, house shortages for renters will increase, with increased population and landlords selling up, there will be change alright!
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
They won't have the first clue, God help us if we have another pandemic we will lock down forever !!!
People earning a decent living will lose out, people who rely on handouts will benefit, and immigration will grow at at even faster rate, house shortages for renters will increase, with increased population and landlords selling up, there will be change alright!
🤣🤣🤣 . Boo hoo. Your going to lose.
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
🤣🤣🤣 . Boo hoo. Your going to lose.
But can you answer the question? Cos this stuff is important.
Why a f how do you think Labour will solve or alleviate the problems the country faces?
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
PR will give reform a lot of seats
If we say they get around ten percent , maybe more , of the vote then that's going to have to be represented
If the country goes down that route ......and I think we should .....then the parties that are opposed to their sort of politics better be ready to take them on
Havent we already had a referendum on PR ? - and what was the result ? or would you like another referendum and then another one until you get the result that you want ? :shrug:
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Sludge I've asked a few times and yet to get a clear response on why you think Labour will solve it alleviate the problems we face?
I refer you to the labour manifesto to be announced on Thursday
Your lot has been in power for 14 years and are leaving a disaster
Wether or not labour have the answers only time will tell
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
He cant can he? They need to get control of utilities to start with, put more money in peoples pockets, I’m not sure there’s any point in saying the nhs as it just won’t happen. We definitely need a huge recruitment of Doctors though, hopefully that will sort out the insane waiting time for ambulances at a&e. The crazy amount of immigrants is costing us a fortune too and there’s people born and bread here that need it just as much.
The conservatives have been responsible for the huge increases in immigration
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I refer you to the labour manifesto to be announced on Thursday
Your lot has been in power for 14 years and are leaving a disaster
Wether or not labour have the answers only time will tell
Surely you have evidence from centre left govts around Europe or in Wales to point to where things have been better?
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Labour have taken the middle ground, that's the only way to win, ideally slightly right of middle is the bulk of voters.
Yes Farage has finished the tory's for a long time, lets hope labour aren't lying about their borrowing and taxation, they probably are but lets see, there are easy ways to avoid paying too much tax.
It was sunak who was found to be lying about tax and borrowing
Just last week
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Surely you have evidence from centre left govts around Europe or in Wales to point to where things have been better?
I am not interested in Europe
I would be if the country hadn't voted to leave
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Labour have taken the middle ground, that's the only way to win, ideally slightly right of middle is the bulk of voters.
Yes Farage has finished the tory's for a long time, lets hope labour aren't lying about their borrowing and taxation, they probably are but lets see, there are easy ways to avoid paying too much tax.
I can help on that one - yes taxes will will be going up when Labour get in - stamp duty will be the first to go up, then there will be no increase in tax bands so it pushes more people into the higher tax bands. The public schools VAT charge will be a null gain. Either kids will go back into the comprehensive school system (at a cost to the Govt) or the schools will get around the VAT by not charging tuition fees and instead charging for accommodation or food, or they will do something clever akin to starbucks and offset against loans from overseas etc.
This is where the 1997 model comes into play - they will announce massive public sector spending projects. Projects which are so big they are almost doomed to failure and over spend from the start. I should know - I used to work on a few of them in the Blair / Brown years - lovely payers and run terribly by clueless public sector clients.
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
But can you answer the question? Cos this stuff is important.
Why a f how do you think Labour will solve or alleviate the problems the country faces?
The most important thing is to get the Tories out
Period
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
But can you answer the question? Cos this stuff is important.
Why a f how do you think Labour will solve or alleviate the problems the country faces?
I'm hoping we move towards being a better and fairer society where the vulnerable aren't targeted as an issue (see more planned cuts) or that the woes of the country aren't blamed on immigrants.
Hopefully Starmer if he gets in will build some trust and respect even if you disagree with him.
There is little respect in Govt at the moment. 3 PMs in an election period , minister resignations , sackings , bullying allegations. There is no trust in this Govt. No wonder votes are going to more extreme parties.
I mean Boris was bad enough but the Tory Party then gave us Liz Truss!!!!!
5 more years of this lot are unthinkable.
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Havent we already had a referendum on PR ? - and what was the result ? or would you like another referendum and then another one until you get the result that you want ? :shrug:
Well if we don't have PR brought in labour will rule for years as your boys vote has been split down the middle and could be as low as 20 percent
Labour may only need 35 percent to be lifelong winners 😂
You better start praying 🙏
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
I can help on that one - yes taxes will will be going up when Labour get in - stamp duty will be the first to go up, then there will be no increase in tax bands so it pushes more people into the higher tax bands. The public schools VAT charge will be a null gain. Either kids will go back into the comprehensive school system (at a cost to the Govt) or the schools will get around the VAT by not charging tuition fees and instead charging for accommodation or food, or they will do something clever akin to starbucks and offset against loans from overseas etc.
This is where the 1997 model comes into play - they will announce massive public sector spending projects. Projects which are so big they are almost doomed to failure and over spend from the start. I should know - I used to work on a few of them in the Blair / Brown years - lovely payers and run terribly by clueless public sector clients.
Another Tory who knows exactly what Labour will do despite them not being in power for over fourteen years and yet is seemingly oblivious to how taxes have gone up as a matter of fact, rather than guesswork, under their party during that time. All Labour needs to do is ask those who were in the working population in 2010 do you feel better off today than you did then and, apart from those who aren’t being honest with themselves, the answer will answer no.
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
I can help on that one - yes taxes will will be going up when Labour get in - stamp duty will be the first to go up, then there will be no increase in tax bands so it pushes more people into the higher tax bands. The public schools VAT charge will be a null gain. Either kids will go back into the comprehensive school system (at a cost to the Govt) or the schools will get around the VAT by not charging tuition fees and instead charging for accommodation or food, or they will do something clever akin to starbucks and offset against loans from overseas etc.
This is where the 1997 model comes into play - they will announce massive public sector spending projects. Projects which are so big they are almost doomed to failure and over spend from the start. I should know - I used to work on a few of them in the Blair / Brown years - lovely payers and run terribly by clueless public sector clients.
Well you should indeed know , superficially.......but its clear you don't
Tell us about HS2 if we are talking about vanity projects
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Another Tory who knows exactly what Labour will do despite them not being in power for over fourteen years and yet is seemingly oblivious to how taxes have gone up as a matter of fact, rather than guesswork, under their party during that time. All Labour needs to do is ask those who were in the working population in 2010 do you feel better off today than you did then and, apart from those who aren’t being honest with themselves, the answer will answer no.
Some of the tax stuff is disputable, as its based on the tax thresholds not changing as expected, but that doesn't mean they've gone up. Most of us don't cross tax thresholds. I demonstrably pay less tax than I did two years ago now.
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
The conservatives have been responsible for the huge increases in immigration
Sure, but started by Blair who just let almost anyone in hoping to De-Tory the country, thinking they would always vote for Labour.
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
The most important thing is to get the Tories out
Period
Something ironic about your love of the Tories yet you live in Cowbridge don’t you sludge? Christ, is there even a more Tory posh area in Wales?
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Re: Conservatives Vote Getting Split
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goats
Something ironic about your love of the Tories yet you live in Cowbridge don’t you sludge? Christ, is there even a more Tory posh area in Wales?
Pretty much every left-winger I know votes such way from a position of privilege, less likely to be impacted by any consequences of their decisions.
Same goes for wealthier right wingers too I suppose..
