The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

Seems like the UK are poking Putin with a stick while the likes of Germany and France are poking him with a feather.

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Originally Posted by Alfresco

Seems like the UK are poking Putin with a stick while the likes of Germany and France are poking him with a feather.

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What do you base that theory on?

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Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman

What do you base that theory on?

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Russia has singled out the UK as being the centre of their perceived injustice over sanctions. Not quite sure why, but they have.

Russia claim US bio weapons labs located in Ukraine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSXRYl9LNPA

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick

Russia has singled out the UK as being the centre of their perceived injustice over sanctions. Not quite sure why, but they have.

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Doing their mukkas a favour by allowing targets for sanctions 6 months to move their assets hardly seems severe.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

What do the red and blue dots even represent?
That woman just shits on the government constantly. (Which is hard not to do a lot of the time).

Never a mention of the humanitarian aid, Weapons, Training logistical help from this country?

I hope to **** Labour win the next election regardless if it's good or bad for the country just to stop ****ing the tweets.

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The key is on the top of the chart.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

The B52s come and go regularly to practice integrated ops with NATO air forces. It's nothing new.

(Of course what they're actually carrying may be :hehe:)

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only 2 at a time though, this time 4 of them

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Originally Posted by lardy

The key is on the top of the chart.

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Not really.
It doesn't indicate what the sanctions are.

Neither does it mention the fact that Germany filled the war coffers and is continuing to import Russian Gas.

Nor the fact that the Mayor of Kiev has thanked the UK for its support while initially stating that the German response was a joke.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

Not really.
It doesn't indicate what the sanctions are.

Neither does it mention the fact that Germany filled the war coffers and is continuing to import Russian Gas.

Nor the fact that the Mayor of Kiev has thanked the UK for its support while initially stating that the German response was a joke.

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I think you're right that more detail and background is needed - but that is what the red and blue dots mean :hehe:

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Originally Posted by lardy

I think you're right that more detail and background is needed - but that is what the red and blue dots mean :hehe:

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Can't argue with that :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

Read his book.

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No thanks. It looks ridiculously boring.

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Originally Posted by blue matt

only 2 at a time though, this time 4 of them

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Its when the B2 stealth bombers start landing at fairford we'll really have a problem as the russkies will almost certainly see that as a sign of aggression.

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Originally Posted by Monster munch

Its when the B2 stealth bombers start landing at fairford we'll really have a problem as the russkies will almost certainly see that as a sign of aggression.

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At the moment it's just a war between Russia and the west-backed Ukraine. It's becoming increasingly likely that Russia isn't going to 'win' this, but how they lose it is more significant. At some stage, however unpalatable, Putin has to be offered even the tiniest of olive branches. If not, I can see him making demands as he's forced into submission, and threatening heavy bombardment, use of major weaponry, if no concessions are forthcoming.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Russia claim US bio weapons labs located in Ukraine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSXRYl9LNPA

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It's no longer a conspiracy theory, and if any biological weapons from these labs are released it was Russia who did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYApPRCd5-M

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

It's no longer a conspiracy theory, and if any biological weapons from these labs are released it was Russia who did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYApPRCd5-M

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I must have missed the statement that the facilities are US labs.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

At the moment it's just a war between Russia and the west-backed Ukraine. It's becoming increasingly likely that Russia isn't going to 'win' this, but how they lose it is more significant. At some stage, however unpalatable, Putin has to be offered even the tiniest of olive branches. If not, I can see him making demands as he's forced into submission, and threatening heavy bombardment, use of major weaponry, if no concessions are forthcoming.

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Absolutely right.

That's what slightly concerns me about the lust for endless sanctions. At some point Putin needs a route out where he can save face.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

That's what slightly concerns me about the lust for endless sanctions. At some point Putin needs a route out where he can save face.

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A lust for endless sanctions? You sound like this has been going on for months on end. It's only been a couple of weeks.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Absolutely right.

That's what slightly concerns me about the lust for endless sanctions. At some point Putin needs a route out where he can save face.

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Only way out of this is that he is overthrown by his own people, the only way thats going to happen is sanctions and taking life tough in the USSR

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

It's no longer a conspiracy theory, and if any biological weapons from these labs are released it was Russia who did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYApPRCd5-M

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there's a rare chance here to combine a Covid origin conspiracy theory and an Ukranian/US bio lab conspiracy, let's hope it's not wasted

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

A lust for endless sanctions? You sound like this has been going on for months on end. It's only been a couple of weeks.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60679658

If things don't go well for Putin he'll argue, however irrational it may be, that the west is declaring war on Russia. When the sanctions really start to hit Russian people whilst at the same time their sons and brothers and fathers are being killed by British guns, the mood in Russia may well become more anti-west than anti-Putin.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60679658

If things don't go well for Putin he'll argue, however irrational it may be, that the west is declaring war on Russia. When the sanctions really start to hit Russian people whilst at the same time their sons and brothers and fathers are being killed by British guns, the mood in Russia may well become more anti-west than anti-Putin.

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There are loads of connotations to this situation. One being the rise in far right groups gaining momentum and wanting to attack russia from the West.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Absolutely right.

That's what slightly concerns me about the lust for endless sanctions. At some point Putin needs a route out where he can save face.

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Just let him have crimea and the eastern areas that are mainly Russian anyway officially. Not sure about Ukraine joining NATO but if Russia agree not to invade the country then they don’t need to…for now or as long as Putin lives maybe?

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Originally Posted by goats

Just let him have crimea and the eastern areas that are mainly Russian anyway officially. Not sure about Ukraine joining NATO but if Russia agree not to invade the country then they don’t need to…for now or as long as Putin lives maybe?

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"if Russia agree not to invade"

I seem to remember them doing that at some point in history?

Oh yes, it was February 2022 :facepalm:

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Originally Posted by goats

Just let him have crimea and the eastern areas that are mainly Russian anyway officially. Not sure about Ukraine joining NATO but if Russia agree not to invade the country then they don’t need to…for now or as long as Putin lives maybe?

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You mean get Russia to sign an agreement never to invade Ukraine again, and stand by that agreement?
Russia was one of the signatories to the Minsk 2 agreement in 2015, only to declare this year that the agreement no longer existed.

Just when I imagined things couldn't get any worse, maternity and children's hospital bombed in Mariupol.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60657155

Sadly folks in Russia will not see these pictures. If they did, then surely even the Putin die-hards might stop and ask questions about only military targets being attacked.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Just when I imagined things couldn't get any worse, maternity and children's hospital bombed in Mariupol.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60657155

Sadly folks in Russia will not see these pictures. If they did, then surely even the Putin die-hards might stop and ask questions about only military targets being attacked.

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The USSR really has it in for Mariupol ( and surrounding area's ) even flattening it will not get the troops to leave ( mainly Azov I believe )

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Absolutely right.

That's what slightly concerns me about the lust for endless sanctions. At some point Putin needs a route out where he can save face.

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I wonder if many Ukrainians would agree with that…
The idea behind the sanctions is that it turns the Russian people against 💩tin. He must be removed by his own people, not “the West”.

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Originally Posted by goats

Just let him have crimea and the eastern areas that are mainly Russian anyway officially. Not sure about Ukraine joining NATO but if Russia agree not to invade the country then they don’t need to…for now or as long as Putin lives maybe?

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This. I don’t get why they just don’t give up these areas for the sake of peace and what are still considerable territories in the rest of Ukraine. I read a tweet yesterday by Zelenskyy’s party saying this option is out of the question. I just don’t get it. They’ll never get these areas back (esp Crimea) in a thousand years. From what I understand, Crimea is staunchly Russian anyway so if you believe in self determination, you’d have to concede this area anyway.

As much as I find the whole war deplorable, sometimes I can’t help feeling this is an age old, localised power struggle between two regions, like in Ireland or Catalunya , which has turned into a West vs East mega conflict.

This ^^ sounds gutless I know , and I agree with sanctions etc but I don’t think Crimea is worth jeopardising world peace over.

If Putin thinks it’s acceptable to bomb maternity hospitals ( not even Isis stoop to those levels) then he’ll be judged in the IWCC and by history.

If I were dealing with such an evil character I’d do the pragmatic thing and concede and give him his “victory” the fckin bellend.

We, (the rest of the world) are basically sitting back and watching a country get flattened, it’s residents murdered in cold blood, and millions getting displaced from their homes (many forever), in order to save our own skins, and mankind as we know it.
Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

This. I don’t get why they just don’t give up these areas for the sake of peace and what are still considerable territories in the rest of Ukraine. I read a tweet yesterday by Zelenskyy’s party saying this option is out of the question. I just don’t get it. They’ll never get these areas back (esp Crimea) in a thousand years. From what I understand, Crimea is staunchly Russian anyway so if you believe in self determination, you’d have to concede this area anyway.

As much as I find the whole war deplorable, sometimes I can’t help feeling this is an age old, localised power struggle between two regions, like in Ireland or Catalunya , which has turned into a West vs East mega conflict.

This ^^ sounds gutless I know , and I agree with sanctions etc but I don’t think Crimea is worth jeopardising world peace over.

If Putin thinks it’s acceptable to bomb maternity hospitals ( not even Isis stoop to those levels) then he’ll be judged in the IWCC and by history.

If I were dealing with such an evil character I’d do the pragmatic thing and concede and give him his “victory” the fckin bellend.

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Why can't these regions hold a referendum on their Sovereignty?

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Originally Posted by goats

Just let him have crimea and the eastern areas that are mainly Russian anyway officially. Not sure about Ukraine joining NATO but if Russia agree not to invade the country then they don’t need to…for now or as long as Putin lives maybe?

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What if he wants more than that. All of Ukraine. Moldova, Romania, Poland. Hell all the former Soviet Union states.

At what point does the world step in?

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Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman

What if he wants more than that. All of Ukraine. Moldova, Romania, Poland. Hell all the former Soviet Union states.

At what point does the world step in?

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They said they’d withdraw if the breakaway regions were recognised. If they wanted to occupy the whole country and expand they’d just continue as they are wouldn’t they?

Occupation of the countries you’ve mentioned would be untenable. It’d never last. Why didn’t they invade Georgia in 2008 if this was the plan.

I think they are just untrusting and overbearing and want outposts a la Transnistria, Kaliningrad, Ossetia to keep a tabs on things.

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

They said they’d withdraw if the breakaway regions were recognised. If they wanted to occupy the whole country and expand they’d just continue as they are wouldn’t they?

Occupation of the countries you’ve mentioned would be untenable. It’d never last. Why didn’t they invade Georgia in 2008 if this was the plan.

I think they are just untrusting and overbearing and want outposts a la Transnistria, Kaliningrad, Ossetia to keep a tabs on things.

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You simply can't trust them.

You know what **** them. Even if they did want outposts in those areas you don't invade and murder civilians.

There should be a democratic process for those areas to go through.

The whole regime deserves the most severe punishments.

https://www.reddit.com/r/interesting...m_source=share

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

"if Russia agree not to invade"

I seem to remember them doing that at some point in history?

Oh yes, it was February 2022 :facepalm:

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Yeah I mean again, of course

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

This. I don’t get why they just don’t give up these areas for the sake of peace and what are still considerable territories in the rest of Ukraine. I read a tweet yesterday by Zelenskyy’s party saying this option is out of the question. I just don’t get it. They’ll never get these areas back (esp Crimea) in a thousand years. From what I understand, Crimea is staunchly Russian anyway so if you believe in self determination, you’d have to concede this area anyway.

As much as I find the whole war deplorable, sometimes I can’t help feeling this is an age old, localised power struggle between two regions, like in Ireland or Catalunya , which has turned into a West vs East mega conflict.

This ^^ sounds gutless I know , and I agree with sanctions etc but I don’t think Crimea is worth jeopardising world peace over.

If Putin thinks it’s acceptable to bomb maternity hospitals ( not even Isis stoop to those levels) then he’ll be judged in the IWCC and by history.

If I were dealing with such an evil character I’d do the pragmatic thing and concede and give him his “victory” the fckin bellend.

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The world's become smaller and smaller in many ways, but geographically this war is still 2000 miles away, and I'd be doing anything to stop it getting closer. We've had 2 weeks of rhetoric, time for some calm - and as you say - pragmatic thinking.

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

They said they’d withdraw if the breakaway regions were recognised. If they wanted to occupy the whole country and expand they’d just continue as they are wouldn’t they?

Occupation of the countries you’ve mentioned would be untenable. It’d never last. Why didn’t they invade Georgia in 2008 if this was the plan.

I think they are just untrusting and overbearing and want outposts a la Transnistria, Kaliningrad, Ossetia to keep a tabs on things.

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He's only in Ukraine because he wasn't properly stopped after Georgia and Crimea. He got what he wanted. There's no way he'd think "well better not push my luck now" if he was allowed to keep parts of Ukraine.

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Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman

You simply can't trust them.

You know what **** them. Even if they did want outposts in those areas you don't invade and murder civilians.

There should be a democratic process for those areas to go through.

The whole regime deserves the most severe punishments.

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They are untouchable. As is the leader of any large government.

The US are responsible for hundreds if not thousands of dead kids.

"The British government says its troops were responsible for an airstrike that killed two women and two children around Helmand."

....a quick google search.

People might try to justify it when their "heroes" are the ones doing the slaying but no government should be flying over foreign countries and dropping bombs unless there is a zero percent chance of injuring or killing little kids. It's incomprehensible.

Interesting from an ex soldier

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...d-war-soldier/

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Originally Posted by Divine Wright

They are untouchable. As is the leader of any large government.

The US are responsible for hundreds if not thousands of dead kids.

"The British government says its troops were responsible for an airstrike that killed two women and two children around Helmand."

....a quick google search.

People might try to justify it when their "heroes" are the ones doing the slaying but no government should be flying over foreign countries and dropping bombs unless there is a zero percent chance of injuring or killing little kids. It's incomprehensible.

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the point here is that you can be pretty sure that the US and UK never intended them bombs to kill the "hundreds if not thousands of kids "

can many say the same from this Russian invasion ? ? ?