Conservatives Vote Getting Split

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Sludge I've asked a few times and yet to get a clear response on why you think Labour will solve it alleviate the problems we face?

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I refer you to the labour manifesto to be announced on Thursday

Your lot has been in power for 14 years and are leaving a disaster

Wether or not labour have the answers only time will tell

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Originally Posted by goats

He cant can he? They need to get control of utilities to start with, put more money in peoples pockets, I’m not sure there’s any point in saying the nhs as it just won’t happen. We definitely need a huge recruitment of Doctors though, hopefully that will sort out the insane waiting time for ambulances at a&e. The crazy amount of immigrants is costing us a fortune too and there’s people born and bread here that need it just as much.

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The conservatives have been responsible for the huge increases in immigration

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I refer you to the labour manifesto to be announced on Thursday

Your lot has been in power for 14 years and are leaving a disaster

Wether or not labour have the answers only time will tell

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Surely you have evidence from centre left govts around Europe or in Wales to point to where things have been better?

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Labour have taken the middle ground, that's the only way to win, ideally slightly right of middle is the bulk of voters.

Yes Farage has finished the tory's for a long time, lets hope labour aren't lying about their borrowing and taxation, they probably are but lets see, there are easy ways to avoid paying too much tax.

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It was sunak who was found to be lying about tax and borrowing

Just last week

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Surely you have evidence from centre left govts around Europe or in Wales to point to where things have been better?

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I am not interested in Europe

I would be if the country hadn't voted to leave

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Labour have taken the middle ground, that's the only way to win, ideally slightly right of middle is the bulk of voters.

Yes Farage has finished the tory's for a long time, lets hope labour aren't lying about their borrowing and taxation, they probably are but lets see, there are easy ways to avoid paying too much tax.

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I can help on that one - yes taxes will will be going up when Labour get in - stamp duty will be the first to go up, then there will be no increase in tax bands so it pushes more people into the higher tax bands. The public schools VAT charge will be a null gain. Either kids will go back into the comprehensive school system (at a cost to the Govt) or the schools will get around the VAT by not charging tuition fees and instead charging for accommodation or food, or they will do something clever akin to starbucks and offset against loans from overseas etc.
This is where the 1997 model comes into play - they will announce massive public sector spending projects. Projects which are so big they are almost doomed to failure and over spend from the start. I should know - I used to work on a few of them in the Blair / Brown years - lovely payers and run terribly by clueless public sector clients.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

But can you answer the question? Cos this stuff is important.

Why a f how do you think Labour will solve or alleviate the problems the country faces?

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The most important thing is to get the Tories out

Period

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

But can you answer the question? Cos this stuff is important.

Why a f how do you think Labour will solve or alleviate the problems the country faces?

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I'm hoping we move towards being a better and fairer society where the vulnerable aren't targeted as an issue (see more planned cuts) or that the woes of the country aren't blamed on immigrants.

Hopefully Starmer if he gets in will build some trust and respect even if you disagree with him.

There is little respect in Govt at the moment. 3 PMs in an election period , minister resignations , sackings , bullying allegations. There is no trust in this Govt. No wonder votes are going to more extreme parties.

I mean Boris was bad enough but the Tory Party then gave us Liz Truss!!!!!

5 more years of this lot are unthinkable.

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Originally Posted by pipster

Havent we already had a referendum on PR ? - and what was the result ? or would you like another referendum and then another one until you get the result that you want ? :shrug:

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Well if we don't have PR brought in labour will rule for years as your boys vote has been split down the middle and could be as low as 20 percent

Labour may only need 35 percent to be lifelong winners 😂

You better start praying 🙏

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Originally Posted by pipster

I can help on that one - yes taxes will will be going up when Labour get in - stamp duty will be the first to go up, then there will be no increase in tax bands so it pushes more people into the higher tax bands. The public schools VAT charge will be a null gain. Either kids will go back into the comprehensive school system (at a cost to the Govt) or the schools will get around the VAT by not charging tuition fees and instead charging for accommodation or food, or they will do something clever akin to starbucks and offset against loans from overseas etc.
This is where the 1997 model comes into play - they will announce massive public sector spending projects. Projects which are so big they are almost doomed to failure and over spend from the start. I should know - I used to work on a few of them in the Blair / Brown years - lovely payers and run terribly by clueless public sector clients.

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Another Tory who knows exactly what Labour will do despite them not being in power for over fourteen years and yet is seemingly oblivious to how taxes have gone up as a matter of fact, rather than guesswork, under their party during that time. All Labour needs to do is ask those who were in the working population in 2010 do you feel better off today than you did then and, apart from those who aren’t being honest with themselves, the answer will answer no.

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Originally Posted by pipster

I can help on that one - yes taxes will will be going up when Labour get in - stamp duty will be the first to go up, then there will be no increase in tax bands so it pushes more people into the higher tax bands. The public schools VAT charge will be a null gain. Either kids will go back into the comprehensive school system (at a cost to the Govt) or the schools will get around the VAT by not charging tuition fees and instead charging for accommodation or food, or they will do something clever akin to starbucks and offset against loans from overseas etc.
This is where the 1997 model comes into play - they will announce massive public sector spending projects. Projects which are so big they are almost doomed to failure and over spend from the start. I should know - I used to work on a few of them in the Blair / Brown years - lovely payers and run terribly by clueless public sector clients.

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Well you should indeed know , superficially.......but its clear you don't

Tell us about HS2 if we are talking about vanity projects

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Another Tory who knows exactly what Labour will do despite them not being in power for over fourteen years and yet is seemingly oblivious to how taxes have gone up as a matter of fact, rather than guesswork, under their party during that time. All Labour needs to do is ask those who were in the working population in 2010 do you feel better off today than you did then and, apart from those who aren’t being honest with themselves, the answer will answer no.

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Some of the tax stuff is disputable, as its based on the tax thresholds not changing as expected, but that doesn't mean they've gone up. Most of us don't cross tax thresholds. I demonstrably pay less tax than I did two years ago now.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The conservatives have been responsible for the huge increases in immigration

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Sure, but started by Blair who just let almost anyone in hoping to De-Tory the country, thinking they would always vote for Labour.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The most important thing is to get the Tories out

Period

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Something ironic about your love of the Tories yet you live in Cowbridge don’t you sludge? Christ, is there even a more Tory posh area in Wales?

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Originally Posted by goats

Something ironic about your love of the Tories yet you live in Cowbridge don’t you sludge? Christ, is there even a more Tory posh area in Wales?

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Pretty much every left-winger I know votes such way from a position of privilege, less likely to be impacted by any consequences of their decisions.

Same goes for wealthier right wingers too I suppose..

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Originally Posted by goats

Something ironic about your love of the Tories yet you live in Cowbridge don’t you sludge? Christ, is there even a more Tory posh area in Wales?

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Yes , Lisvane, Rhiwbina etc

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Pretty much every left-winger I know votes such way from a position of privilege, less likely to be impacted by any consequences of their decisions.

Same goes for wealthier right wingers too I suppose..

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That doesn't apply to anyone I know

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

That doesn't apply to anyone I know

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Certainly does to me, although more pronounced on Brexit related topics in all honesty.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Pretty much every left-winger I know votes such way from a position of privilege, less likely to be impacted by any consequences of their decisions.

Same goes for wealthier right wingers too I suppose..

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Strangely same here, most still live at home with their parents or never even left, fart about most of the day shopping for expensive loaves of bread or busy tending their allotment….posh lefties, barely live in this world

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Yes , Lisvane, Rhiwbina etc

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Rhiwbina isn’t that posh, leafy maybe but just full of old people hence the extreme number of bungalow. Face it, you live in Tory town, how apt. You secret ly are one right? Proper undercover

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Certainly does to me, although more pronounced on Brexit related topics in all honesty.

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I don't know what you are saying here

You are posh and so are all your mates and only you vote Tory and all the rest vote Labour because they have enough cash for the cost of left wing policies not to bother them and they do it out of some kind of misguided guilt ?

I am fortunate to live in an area which is affluent the people I know don't votectorh because they don't like the conservatives it's no more complicated than that

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Originally Posted by goats

Strangely same here, most still live at home with their parents or never even left, fart about most of the day shopping for expensive loaves of bread or busy tending their allotment….posh lefties, barely live in this world

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You are starting to lose the plot here

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Originally Posted by goats

Rhiwbina isn’t that posh, leafy maybe but just full of old people hence the extreme number of bungalow. Face it, you live in Tory town, how apt. You secret ly are one right? Proper undercover

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You need to have a look at the league table of wealthiest streets in Wales sonny

They are all in Cardiff North

Driving through Radyr there was always the sickening Vote Conservative signs outside houses election time. Made u want to throw up.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I don't know what you are saying here

You are posh and so are all your mates and only you vote Tory and all the rest vote Labour because they have enough cash for the cost of left wing policies not to bother them and they do it out of some kind of misguided guilt ?

I am fortunate to live in an area which is affluent the people I know don't votectorh because they don't like the conservatives it's no more complicated than that

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I'm saying most of the most left wing people I know are pretty wealthy. Most of the most vocal 'remainy' people I know were certainly wealthy.

Just my observation