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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I'm the polar opposite. The older I get, the more I'd like to see Cardiff City compete properly in the Premier League. And I'm not talking about going up and coming straight back down again. I'm talking about going up, staying up and competing, as the likes of Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton and Fulham have managed to do. If they can do it, why can't we?
Those clubs currently sit above Manchester United, Spurs and Everton in the top flight. To me, that's a rather more attractive proposition than playing in a league with Haverfordwest, Bala Town and Briton Ferry.
This.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
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Originally Posted by
TheBirchgrovePub
The gap is getting bigger than ever though.
It may be, but we are talking extremely small sample sizes. Things change over the longer term. Still a lot of questions over how finances will play out.
Even if the gap was a few divisions that's surely more interesting than watching us play mostly village teams.
The championship by international standings is a bloody good league full of historic clubs. Even in the unlikely event that's forever our ceiling, it's a lot higher than effectively demoting the club several levels to be a big fish in a tiny pond.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheBirchgrovePub
The gap is getting bigger than ever though.
Perhaps, but that doesn't mean to say we as a club have to abandon all ambition.
Besides which, the doomsday 'gap is getting too big, Premier League is becoming a closed shop' predictions have been flying around for decades. Indeed, at the time of the rebrand, two directors told me that if City didn't take Vincent Tan's money and get promoted to the Premier League in either 2013/14 or 2013/14, we never would because rule changes to parachute payments meant the opportunity to compete would be gone.
But even if the Premier League did become a closed shop (and I don't believe it will), I'd much rather see City compete in the EFL than any Welsh league.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
This paragraph is confusing:
"Cardiff City, Newport County, Swansea City and Wrexham have agreed to exclude any profit derived by representing Wales in UEFA competitions for financial regulations in the English Football League or the English Premier League."
So are we seriously saying that the four league clubs are prepared to give up the possibility of qualifying for Europe via the Premier League, the FA Cup or the League Cup, and the obvious financial rewards that would come with such a qualification, in order to play in some tinpot Welsh competition that they cannot profit from?
This idea sounds worse every time I read about it.
I have re-read that paragraph a dozen times and I still don't know what it means. Confusing is right.
"Exclude any profit.... for financial regulations...."
Like you and others I can guess what it means, and I don't like it, but as written it does not make sense.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I have re-read that paragraph a dozen times and I still don't know what it means. Confusing is right.
"Exclude any profit.... for financial regulations...."
Like you and others I can guess what it means, and I don't like it, but as written it does not make sense.
I agree, which is why I asked a question as opposed to make a statement regarding it. The paragraph makes no real sense. And if it really does mean what it seems to suggest, then this whole idea makes absolutely zero sense for the four EFL clubs.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
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Originally Posted by
FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead
From a Welsh fan's perspective, I think it's a good idea and I understand it completely. I agree with Mooney's argument that Welsh football is in a unique position, and fair play to the FAW for thinking outside the box in trying to proactively generate new revenue streams.
From a Cardiff fan's perspective, I'm not 100%. But that's more because of the fixture congestion issues it would create more than anything. If we got to the group stages, we'd be looking at an additional 15-20 games per season, with a lot of those played during July/August. Combined with our existing league and cup commitments, that's potentially a minimum of 66 games in a season. Dalman's justification of "oh, well Millwall and Wigan did it" is a little flimsy and without a big squad I could see that significantly impacting our league performance.
That said, I don't think it's an existential threat to our EFL position. The four clubs have obviously looked at it from a legal perspective, and Dalman mentioned in his statement the other day that there is no legal mechanism to remove us. I also think the point about us foregoing profit derived from playing in Europe will appease the other English clubs, as that would likely be their biggest contention.
That does though raise the question what exactly is in it for us, and I think that's the crux of it. It would be great to have European football and the trips/memories that would entail (especially for "younger" fans like me that have never experienced it). It would also be nice to have yearly competitive fixtures against other Welsh clubs. It might also be a great opportunity for our younger players to get more minutes and develop.
But I simply don't see how we'd be able to balance everything.
Some of our fan base are moaning that progression in the cup is preventing them watching Hull City on a Saturday. We’ve no chance of getting through to Europe through the cups. No doubt it we got in via the Welsh route, they would be calling for the kids v Real Madrid as we had Barnsley on the weekend.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
I'd rather stay in championship than play in the Premier league .
The Welsh isn't me.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Read earlier that the English FA's main sticking point was they deemed it unfair that Welsh clubs could be at a financial advantage, but the FAW are pretty satisfied that that will be negated by the fact any prize money would go to the Welsh system, not the clubs. Also linked in with the co-operation between the FAs with Euro 28
I think its a good idea, it would be a maximum of 4 games I think? (Welsh Prem teams + us 4 in the competition) and gives us a great shot at playing European football. Preston or Prague? Tough one...
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
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Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
Some of our fan base are moaning that progression in the cup is preventing them watching Hull City on a Saturday. We’ve no chance of getting through to Europe through the cups. No doubt it we got in via the Welsh route, they would be calling for the kids v Real Madrid as we had Barnsley on the weekend.
We do have a chance of qualifying if we win a cup and we've been in two finals since 2008. Bolton, Fulham, Leicester, Ipswich, Norwich and the like have all tasted European football, and deserved it too.
I just don't see the point in this. It cheapens it massively and it feels a lot like cheating. What's the point in qualifying for Europe in this way?
And if it means we can't qualify via the leagues and cups what are we doing it for? To become a bigger club and get promoted and then be a second class citizen in the top flight?
It's a mess
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
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Originally Posted by
Armitage Shanks
I wouldn't as I'm not from Cardiff. If Caerphilly were in the Welsh league I would support them. Or even PenyBont
Trethomas are currently top of the Cymru South. Great chance for a valleys Prem team.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
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Originally Posted by
City123
I think its a good idea, it would be a maximum of 4 games I think?
Let's imagine City play in the latest version of the FAW Premier Cup, win it and qualify for the mighty Europa Conference League.
How many extra games would that involve? And if the club isn't going to be allowed to profit from such a scenario, what would be the actual point?
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Let's imagine City play in the latest version of the FAW Premier Cup, win it and qualify for the mighty Europa Conference League.
How many extra games would that involve? And if the club isn't going to be allowed to profit from such a scenario, what would be the actual point?
Well, playing European football. I see it as a positive, if you don't then we just won't be able to agree and that's fine
The club would profit, gate receipts, an enhanced profile, become more attractive for players and any money that goes into grassroots football in Wales will have a knock on benefit for us
In terms of games it would be 4 qualifying ties all in pre season and an additional 6 league phase games before any knockouts. I'd quite like to watch us play in those
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
The club would profit, gate receipts, an enhanced profile, become more attractive for players and any money that goes into grassroots football in Wales will have a knock on benefit for us
The paragraph I've quoted earlier in the thread suggests the club would not be able to profit from the gate receipts, but it's not entirely clear, so who knows?
I note that TNS's many European games this season included Europa Conference League clashes with Astana, Shamrock Rovers, Djurgaardens and NK Celje. I wonder what sort of crowds City would get for games against teams like those?
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
We do have a chance of qualifying if we win a cup and we've been in two finals since 2008. Bolton, Fulham, Leicester, Ipswich, Norwich and the like have all tasted European football, and deserved it too.
I just don't see the point in this. It cheapens it massively and it feels a lot like cheating. What's the point in qualifying for Europe in this way?
And if it means we can't qualify via the leagues and cups what are we doing it for? To become a bigger club and get promoted and then be a second class citizen in the top flight?
It's a mess
You might have a point if the club and fan base had not all but given up on cup competitions. 2008 and 2012 were wonderful times but that now seems like 3 centuries ago as regards our attitude to doing well in them.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
You might have a point if the club and fan base had not all but given up on cup competitions. 2008 and 2012 were wonderful times but that now seems like 3 centuries ago as regards our attitude to doing well in them.
Our approach to cup competitions will be the subject of tomorrow's moan.
For today I am sticking with the Welsh League Cup idea!
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
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Originally Posted by
bobh
My thoughts exactly.
I do not see this in the slightest.
The football league could be all changed anyway in the next decade, due to the Super League that will surely rear it's head again.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
This paragraph is confusing:
"Cardiff City, Newport County, Swansea City and Wrexham have agreed to exclude any profit derived by representing Wales in UEFA competitions for financial regulations in the English Football League or the English Premier League."
So are we seriously saying that the four league clubs are prepared to give up the possibility of qualifying for Europe via the Premier League, the FA Cup or the League Cup, and the obvious financial rewards that would come with such a qualification, in order to play in some tinpot Welsh competition that they cannot profit from?
This idea sounds worse every time I read about it.
'Profit' is such a loose term.
Turnover would be clearer, but can incurred costs such as staffing be recouped?
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I'm the polar opposite. The older I get, the more I'd like to see Cardiff City compete properly in the Premier League. And I'm not talking about going up and coming straight back down again. I'm talking about going up, staying up and competing, as the likes of Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton and Fulham have managed to do. If they can do it, why can't we?
Those clubs currently sit above Manchester United, Spurs and Everton in the top flight. To me, that's a rather more attractive proposition than playing in a league with Haverfordwest, Bala Town and Briton Ferry.
Does this prohibit it in any way?
Am I the only one not seeing the downsides to this.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
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Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
Does this prohibit it in any way?
Am I the only one not seeing the downsides to this.
You are replying to a post that was in response to another suggesting City should leave the EFL and join the Welsh League.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
'Profit' is such a loose term.
Turnover would be clearer, but can incurred costs such as staffing be recouped?
Ask the FAW. Their statement makes no genuine sense.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
You are replying to a post that was in response to another suggesting City should leave the EFL and join the Welsh League.
Fair enough
Well that’s a car crash idea to me
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Could poke a hornets nest that needs to be left alone.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I agree, which is why I asked a question as opposed to make a statement regarding it. The paragraph makes no real sense. And if it really does mean what it seems to suggest, then this whole idea makes absolutely zero sense for the four EFL clubs.
If it was just City, then I'd assume it's another ludicrous decision made by a football club that has no idea about football, but presumably both Swansea and Wrexham are also signed up to being a benefactor to Welsh football, then I'm flummoxed. Completely !!
