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Thread: Still don't like this idea.

  1. #1

    Still don't like this idea.


  2. #2

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Nor do I.
    This maybe the first step in us leaving the football league.

  3. #3

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by the other bob wilson View Post
    In fairness to Tan he did say (according to dalman so fair size pinch of salt needed) he still wants to take us to the premier league - maybe he doesn't realise the difference between the English and Welsh premier leagues 🤔

  4. #4

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    From a Welsh fan's perspective, I think it's a good idea and I understand it completely. I agree with Mooney's argument that Welsh football is in a unique position, and fair play to the FAW for thinking outside the box in trying to proactively generate new revenue streams.

    From a Cardiff fan's perspective, I'm not 100%. But that's more because of the fixture congestion issues it would create more than anything. If we got to the group stages, we'd be looking at an additional 15-20 games per season, with a lot of those played during July/August. Combined with our existing league and cup commitments, that's potentially a minimum of 66 games in a season. Dalman's justification of "oh, well Millwall and Wigan did it" is a little flimsy and without a big squad I could see that significantly impacting our league performance.

    That said, I don't think it's an existential threat to our EFL position. The four clubs have obviously looked at it from a legal perspective, and Dalman mentioned in his statement the other day that there is no legal mechanism to remove us. I also think the point about us foregoing profit derived from playing in Europe will appease the other English clubs, as that would likely be their biggest contention.

    That does though raise the question what exactly is in it for us, and I think that's the crux of it. It would be great to have European football and the trips/memories that would entail (especially for "younger" fans like me that have never experienced it). It would also be nice to have yearly competitive fixtures against other Welsh clubs. It might also be a great opportunity for our younger players to get more minutes and develop.

    But I simply don't see how we'd be able to balance everything.

  5. #5

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks View Post
    Nor do I.
    This maybe the first step in us leaving the football league.
    My thoughts exactly.

  6. #6

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    This paragraph is confusing:

    "Cardiff City, Newport County, Swansea City and Wrexham have agreed to exclude any profit derived by representing Wales in UEFA competitions for financial regulations in the English Football League or the English Premier League."

    So are we seriously saying that the four league clubs are prepared to give up the possibility of qualifying for Europe via the Premier League, the FA Cup or the League Cup, and the obvious financial rewards that would come with such a qualification, in order to play in some tinpot Welsh competition that they cannot profit from?

    This idea sounds worse every time I read about it.

  7. #7

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Its a bit of a curates egg this one. While Im just about old enough to have gone to a city European game and would love to see us back there, do we really want to forgoe the possibility of ever playing in the Champions League or Europa League (as ridiculous as that sounds now)?

    Also as some have pointed out above, the fixture congestion if we did get into the group stage would be horrific in a 46 game Championship season. If we then resorted to playing the reserves in Europe then we'd have effectively given up the top two European competitions for nothing.

    I dont really buy into the idea that its the thin end of the wedge as far as joining the Cymru Premier is concerned. No one in their right mind is going to be up for that and Im sure all the legalities have been explored. If we wouldnt do it when the Welsh clubs were on their collective arses in 1992, why would we now? Also T=there are undeniable benefits for Welsh football, as Noel Mooney has eloquently expressed, but I think on balance for me its a no.

  8. #8

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead View Post
    From a Welsh fan's perspective, I think it's a good idea and I understand it completely. I agree with Mooney's argument that Welsh football is in a unique position, and fair play to the FAW for thinking outside the box in trying to proactively generate new revenue streams.

    From a Cardiff fan's perspective, I'm not 100%. But that's more because of the fixture congestion issues it would create more than anything. If we got to the group stages, we'd be looking at an additional 15-20 games per season, with a lot of those played during July/August. Combined with our existing league and cup commitments, that's potentially a minimum of 66 games in a season. Dalman's justification of "oh, well Millwall and Wigan did it" is a little flimsy and without a big squad I could see that significantly impacting our league performance.

    That said, I don't think it's an existential threat to our EFL position. The four clubs have obviously looked at it from a legal perspective, and Dalman mentioned in his statement the other day that there is no legal mechanism to remove us. I also think the point about us foregoing profit derived from playing in Europe will appease the other English clubs, as that would likely be their biggest contention.

    That does though raise the question what exactly is in it for us, and I think that's the crux of it. It would be great to have European football and the trips/memories that would entail (especially for "younger" fans like me that have never experienced it). It would also be nice to have yearly competitive fixtures against other Welsh clubs. It might also be a great opportunity for our younger players to get more minutes and develop.

    But I simply don't see how we'd be able to balance everything.
    We have a big squad, full of youth that would jump at the chance to play a competitive fixture

  9. #9

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    This paragraph is confusing:

    "Cardiff City, Newport County, Swansea City and Wrexham have agreed to exclude any profit derived by representing Wales in UEFA competitions for financial regulations in the English Football League or the English Premier League."

    So are we seriously saying that the four league clubs are prepared to give up the possibility of qualifying for Europe via the Premier League, the FA Cup or the League Cup, and the obvious financial rewards that would come with such a qualification, in order to play in some tinpot Welsh competition that they cannot profit from?

    This idea sounds worse every time I read about it.
    That paragraph could definitely do with a full article on how that works. We talking competition profits or everything down to gate receipts.

  10. #10

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    This paragraph is confusing:

    "Cardiff City, Newport County, Swansea City and Wrexham have agreed to exclude any profit derived by representing Wales in UEFA competitions for financial regulations in the English Football League or the English Premier League."

    So are we seriously saying that the four league clubs are prepared to give up the possibility of qualifying for Europe via the Premier League, the FA Cup or the League Cup, and the obvious financial rewards that would come with such a qualification, in order to play in some tinpot Welsh competition that they cannot profit from?

    This idea sounds worse every time I read about it.
    My thoughts exactly. We're doing this just for the good of Welsh football? I doubt it. Something doesn't add up there.

    I really hope this gets blocked by the FA as the other EFL clubs have asked them to.

  11. #11

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    To put things in perspective, I copied a paragraph from Wikipedia. It is regarding the first qualifying round of the Nathaniel Cup

    Twenty-eight clubs will enter in Round 1, which will be made up of any club without floodlights; the two wildcard entries

    I maybe wrong, but I believe both the City and Swansea Town are the wildcard entries, that go into the first round of qualifying, alongside the teams without floodlights.

    Hats off to the people charged with running our football Club into the ground!

  12. #12

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    I don't feel comfortable with it either. Something about it feels very off.

  13. #13

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    I object to all this on several grounds.

    First and foremost I think it's really unambitious. Twice in the 15 years or so we have been one game off Europe. We are a large city and being in the premier league and qualifying that way has to be the ambition. What's the point if we can't do that? If we sacrifice that for the Conference League then frankly we may as well be in the Welsh league.

    There's practicalities too. How many games is the league cup? 5? How many in the conference league? Including qualifying then it's at least 8. Plus the FA Cup and League cup. Club could be ****ed, and for what? A weekend on the piss in Liege and Sofia?

    We would also become the most disliked teams in the league and understandably so. Mooney will be happy, I don't think we should be. Cardiff City >Welsh football every day of the week for me.

    We should be careful what we wish for here. I think I would genuinely favour joining the Welsh leagues over these muddied waters.

  14. #14

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    This paragraph is confusing:

    "Cardiff City, Newport County, Swansea City and Wrexham have agreed to exclude any profit derived by representing Wales in UEFA competitions for financial regulations in the English Football League or the English Premier League."

    So are we seriously saying that the four league clubs are prepared to give up the possibility of qualifying for Europe via the Premier League, the FA Cup or the League Cup, and the obvious financial rewards that would come with such a qualification, in order to play in some tinpot Welsh competition that they cannot profit from?

    This idea sounds worse every time I read about it.
    I'm not sure how you have reached that conclusion from that paragraph. It is effectively saying we won't profit from the prize money as all prize money will be split between the Welsh clubs isn't it?

    If anything I would suspect we would run at a loss from this if we said for arguments sake that we reached the group stage once every 5 years

  15. #15

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub View Post
    I'm not sure how you have reached that conclusion from that paragraph. It is effectively saying we won't profit from the prize money as all prize money will be split between the Welsh clubs isn't it?
    That's basically what I was saying - the paragraph suggests there would be no profit for any of the EFL clubs if they were to play in Europe.

    What did you think I said?

  16. #16

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Would anyone be against joining the Welsh League by the way?

    The way football is going, the shambles that is the disparity between the PL and Championship at the moment, never mind the Top 6 and the rest of the PL. We were one game from Europe twice but football has come a very long way since then.

    Only 2 teams outside of the top 6 have won the FA Cup since 2008. The League Cup has been dominated by the big 6 in recent seasons. I look at Scotland's league and am often quite jealous, but ironically ours would be more competitive.

    Wrexham, Newport, Swansea, Cardiff going for the title each season, teams towards the bottom gradually becoming competetive over a number of years. The first few years would obviously be poor but it would be great once those 4 teams were going for the title each season.

    Won't ever happen of course but I think if a phoenix Cardiff City ever happened and joined the Welsh League I'd make the switch

  17. #17

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub View Post
    Would anyone be against joining the Welsh League by the way?
    Yes. It's a woeful idea in every respect.

  18. #18

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    That's basically what I was saying - the paragraph suggests there would be no profit for any of the EFL clubs if they were to play in Europe.

    What did you think I said?
    My apologies I misread

  19. #19

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub View Post
    Would anyone be against joining the Welsh League by the way?

    The way football is going, the shambles that is the disparity between the PL and Championship at the moment, never mind the Top 6 and the rest of the PL. We were one game from Europe twice but football has come a very long way since then.

    Only 2 teams outside of the top 6 have won the FA Cup since 2008. The League Cup has been dominated by the big 6 in recent seasons. I look at Scotland's league and am often quite jealous, but ironically ours would be more competitive.

    Wrexham, Newport, Swansea, Cardiff going for the title each season, teams towards the bottom gradually becoming competetive over a number of years. The first few years would obviously be poor but it would be great once those 4 teams were going for the title each season.

    Won't ever happen of course but I think if a phoenix Cardiff City ever happened and joined the Welsh League I'd make the switch
    I wouldn't as I'm not from Cardiff. If Caerphilly were in the Welsh league I would support them. Or even PenyBont

  20. #20

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Yes. It's a woeful idea in every respect.
    I guess it's how you view football as you get older. When I was 20 years younger I'd have hated the idea but as I've got older I quite like the idea. What is our aim in the English system? We have been in the Championship for all but 2 of the last 22 seasons. The gap is getting even bigger now so for me I just view it as more of the same over the next 10-15 years as football eats itself.

    Appreciate this is an unpopular opinion and will never happen, just curious if anyone feels the same way and would love a fresh start in a league not yet corrupted by greedy billionaires (with blood on their hands in a lot of cases)

  21. #21

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks View Post
    I wouldn't as I'm not from Cardiff. If Caerphilly were in the Welsh league I would support them. Or even PenyBont
    That would be good for the league

  22. #22

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub View Post
    Would anyone be against joining the Welsh League by the way?

    The way football is going, the shambles that is the disparity between the PL and Championship at the moment, never mind the Top 6 and the rest of the PL. We were one game from Europe twice but football has come a very long way since then.

    Only 2 teams outside of the top 6 have won the FA Cup since 2008. The League Cup has been dominated by the big 6 in recent seasons. I look at Scotland's league and am often quite jealous, but ironically ours would be more competitive.

    Wrexham, Newport, Swansea, Cardiff going for the title each season, teams towards the bottom gradually becoming competetive over a number of years. The first few years would obviously be poor but it would be great once those 4 teams were going for the title each season.

    Won't ever happen of course but I think if a phoenix Cardiff City ever happened and joined the Welsh League I'd make the switch
    I would have no interest in Cardiff city in the Welsh league.

  23. #23

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    This idea doesn’t make a lot of sense. Have UEFA actually changed their stance on this then? The Europeanconference league isn’t the most attractive of competitions either, would prefer if we took the FA cup and league cup more seriously.

    I Sumer for most games we would still play our under 21s which is what we were doing anyway

  24. #24

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub View Post
    I guess it's how you view football as you get older.
    I'm the polar opposite. The older I get, the more I'd like to see Cardiff City compete properly in the Premier League. And I'm not talking about going up and coming straight back down again. I'm talking about going up, staying up and competing, as the likes of Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton and Fulham have managed to do. If they can do it, why can't we?

    Those clubs currently sit above Manchester United, Spurs and Everton in the top flight. To me, that's a rather more attractive proposition than playing in a league with Haverfordwest, Bala Town and Briton Ferry.

  25. #25

    Re: Still don't like this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    I'm the polar opposite. The older I get, the more I'd like to see Cardiff City compete properly in the Premier League. And I'm not talking about going up and coming straight back down again. I'm talking about going up, staying up and competing, as the likes of Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton and Fulham have managed to do. If they can do it, why can't we?

    Those clubs currently sit above Manchester United, Spurs and Everton in the top flight. To me, that's a rather more attractive proposition than playing in a league with Haverfordwest, Bala Town and Briton Ferry.
    The gap is getting bigger than ever though.

    The 3 promoted teams the season before last went straight back down with a whimper last season, and 2 of the 3 are now top 3 again. The same will happen to them if they go up. The 3 promoted teams last season are currently in the bottom 3. They are well run clubs as well.

    The likes of Brighton, Bournemouth etc have very wealthy owners and got lucky with the timing. They can outbid teams in Serie A and La Liga these days, their financial footing means we have no chance if we did ever get promoted. To me we are a million miles away from being a club run well enough to get promoted never mind bridging that financial gap and establishing ourselves.

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