Despite the recent successes, I still want Slade replaced

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Threads like this show how fickle football fans are. Manager gets us to 7th 2 points outside the playoffs with 7 games left, under a transfer embargo and they want him sacked.

Slade is the first manager I've seen us have get the slack for everything that goes wrong but everything he does right is just luck.

Playing the current system by luck
Signed immers by luck
Winning games by luck.

All because he isn't a fashionable enough manager for "huge" club Cardiff City.

Here's another spin on it, when we went on a poor run at the start of the season I think Slade was actually unlucky. We were playing decent stuff and creating chances but the goals weren't going in.

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How is it fickle? Surely fickle would be to change one's opinion based on a cluster of results.

The people who are saying for him to go are saying so despite us doing well recently.

I would hate to see us go for Pulis, Warnock, Sherwood etc.

I personally think Bellamy would be a great choice and I think the reason that so many people are so obsessed with experience at the moment is cos of the disaster that was Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

I believe Ole failed so miserably cos of his obsession with making us a mini Manchester United.

I believe Bellamy has done a lot of homework around the club and as Cardiff lad he knows what makes us tick.

I would love to see him come in and be given a long term project rather than Tan throw money at whoever will be our manager next season and gamble on promotion like Derby have this year.

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Originally Posted by thehumblegringo

Personally I would like us to change in the summer but I disagree with a lot of the reasoning of the original poster.

Every season people seem to think that 'the championship is weak this year' but I believe there are some decent squads in the division this year and there's certainly been a lot of money spent. I don't believe anyone has reached the standard of football we witnessed from Bournemouth, Watford and Brentford before their chairman interfered last season but nevertheless it's a decent league.

Slade has definitely worked under constraints, however I believe this has worked to his advantage rather hindering our progress.

He certainly hasn't been shy in playing the victim and has gradually won a lot of fans over by telling them how hard he's had it.

I believe (like someone else commented) that the Tactical changes that have corresponded with more entertaining football were forced upon him with the sales of Jones, Revell and Mason. I don't believe he had a big day in the players who came in, especially Immers and Zohore. I 100% believe we'd be playing a static 4-4-2 if those forwards weren't sold.

I don't blame anyone for thinking he's done a decent job and I can understand how someone would hold this view.

He has definitely built a siege mentality in the dressing room and there does appear to be a good team spirit amongst the squad.

I have said before and I'll say again, I don't believe Slade would ever risk upsetting Tan by appealing to him for new training grounds or more money for the Academy etc.

I agree with the original poster that Slade stifles the development of young players at the club. In fact I'd go as far as saying he has no interest in the Academy and this is definitely what bothers me the most.

I have never seen Slade at an academy match and this goes against everything I believe in. How can he create a pathway for youngsters who are 15/16 etc if he never watches them.

Some will say that's what his staff are for but I truly believe that a manager of a football club should at least be showing his face occasionally to give these kids some hope.

As TOBW and Loramski highlighted last week, he doesn't even seem to be aware what is happening below the first team.

There are far bigger clubs than us who have shown that looking within can produce results this season.
Tottenham and even Manchester United have managed to bleed youngsters that have thrived in the first team environment.

Next season I believe more clubs will follow suit and Guardiola will certainly be keen to bleed some youngsters.

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I don't bother paying attention to the "weak division" messages I read every year any more because I've never been able to figure out what constitutes one - is it one where the teams are well stretched out with one side a long way clear at the top and another miles adrift at the bottom or is it one where there are not that many points separating the top from bottom?

That said, I agree that, although I enjoyed what I saw of Brighton's performance on Saturday before I left for our game, there are no sides as easy on the eye as Bournemouth were last season.

Also, as you say, I don't think it's been too bad a thing for Slade's reputation that he didn't have much to spend last summer and that he was "limited" by the embargo in January. Although I'd say Peltier and Malone look better signings this season than they did last, I'd still describe his record in the transfer market as patchy - I think it's probably correct to assume that a few of our recent signings may not have been hand picked by Slade, but I daresay there have been times when he's been criticised on places like this for poor signings he may have had not much to do with, so I'm happy to give him some credit for the Immers signing.

I've made my feelings on Slade's attitude towards young players clear many times in the past, so I won't say much about that now except that I was shocked by the answer he gave when asked about Jazzi Burnam-Bobb and how little fuss was made of it.

As to whether he should stay or go at the end of the season, my attitude has always been that various high ranking personnel at the club have made it clear that the aim is to reach the Play Offs this year, therefore there would appear to be valid reasons for letting our manager go this summer if that doesn't happen - it follows therefore that you would expect us to start next season with him still in charge if we do make the top six.

For myself, I've mentioned before that the thought of Russell Slade being in charge next season does not fill me with the same dread as it once did - overall, he's certainly proved to be a better manager at this level than I expected him to be at this time last year, but I'd still like to see some proof that he has a long term plan for the club because I still get the impression that he is not looking beyond what happens with the first team from one month to the next.

It's just weird to see slade getting exactly the same stick DJ got whatever starts going right he gets blamed for something else.

So far this season I've seen:

Why did he sign O'Keefe
Why did he sign that donkey Immers
We are losing too many games
We aren't winning enough games
Our style of play is boring
We aren't winning back to back games
We can't beat teams above us in the league
We can't beat teams below us in the league
We aren't playing enough youngsters
Slade doesn't make enough subs
He makes too many subs
He makes the wrong subs

The man has done a cracking job and has done about as much with the youth team as the last 4 managers before him did. People just want to moan because he's not fashionable enough for them.

Malky's teams played boring football, contained no youth players and cost more money but people were writing him poems ffs.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

It's just weird to see slade getting exactly the same stick DJ got whatever starts going right he gets blamed for something else.

So far this season I've seen:

Why did he sign O'Keefe
Why did he sign that donkey Immers
We are losing too many games
We aren't winning enough games
Our style of play is boring
We aren't winning back to back games
We can't beat teams above us in the league
We can't beat teams below us in the league
We aren't playing enough youngsters
Slade doesn't make enough subs
He makes too many subs
He makes the wrong subs

The man has done a cracking job and has done about as much with the youth team as the last 4 managers before him did. People just want to moan because he's not fashionable enough for them.

Malky's teams played boring football, contained no youth players and cost more money but people were writing him poems ffs.

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I think most fans realise he is doing a fantastic job, it is unfortunate we have a few who will not be happy till they drive him out.
What makes me laugh is they come up with ridiculous reasons and replacements.:facepalm:

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

It's just weird to see slade getting exactly the same stick DJ got whatever starts going right he gets blamed for something else.

So far this season I've seen:

Why did he sign O'Keefe
Why did he sign that donkey Immers
We are losing too many games
We aren't winning enough games
Our style of play is boring
We aren't winning back to back games
We can't beat teams above us in the league
We can't beat teams below us in the league
We aren't playing enough youngsters
Slade doesn't make enough subs
He makes too many subs
He makes the wrong subs

The man has done a cracking job and has done about as much with the youth team as the last 4 managers before him did. People just want to moan because he's not fashionable enough for them.

Malky's teams played boring football, contained no youth players and cost more money but people were writing him poems ffs.

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:hehe::hehe:

THE writing him poems bit made me chuckle.

At the time of Malky I will admit that, at the time I saw his boring football as a means to an end and accepted that it may have been the right way to get our of the division.

I think we need to realise that football is always evolving and what will work at one period of time will be irrelevant in the next.

I believe these shifts are frequent and I believe that Malky's football is seriously outdated now already.

I also believe having witnessed the catastrophe that was our one season in the premier league there are blueprints for more long term success out there.

I believe that Watford, Bournemouth, Swansea etc in establishing a footballing identity throughout the club have given themselves a far better chance of survival in the league above but even if they did come back down this year (in the cases of Watford and Bournemouth) I believe they would have had the vision to keep a squad together which would have gone straight back up.

I believe that our approach is more akin to Newcastle and Villa in that when we enter the transfer market we sign players on a lucky dip basis not with any foresight about how that players will fit into the current squad or system.

I don't just blame Slade for this as it has been the same for as long as I remember.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I don't bother paying attention to the "weak division" messages I read every year any more because I've never been able to figure out what constitutes one - is it one where the teams are well stretched out with one side a long way clear at the top and another miles adrift at the bottom or is it one where there are not that many points separating the top from bottom?

That said, I agree that, although I enjoyed what I saw of Brighton's performance on Saturday before I left for our game, there are no sides as easy on the eye as Bournemouth were last season.

Also, as you say, I don't think it's been too bad a thing for Slade's reputation that he didn't have much to spend last summer and that he was "limited" by the embargo in January. Although I'd say Peltier and Malone look better signings this season than they did last, I'd still describe his record in the transfer market as patchy - I think it's probably correct to assume that a few of our recent signings may not have been hand picked by Slade, but I daresay there have been times when he's been criticised on places like this for poor signings he may have had not much to do with, so I'm happy to give him some credit for the Immers signing.

I've made my feelings on Slade's attitude towards young players clear many times in the past, so I won't say much about that now except that I was shocked by the answer he gave when asked about Jazzi Burnam-Bobb and how little fuss was made of it.

As to whether he should stay or go at the end of the season, my attitude has always been that various high ranking personnel at the club have made it clear that the aim is to reach the Play Offs this year, therefore there would appear to be valid reasons for letting our manager go this summer if that doesn't happen - it follows therefore that you would expect us to start next season with him still in charge if we do make the top six.

For myself, I've mentioned before that the thought of Russell Slade being in charge next season does not fill me with the same dread as it once did - overall, he's certainly proved to be a better manager at this level than I expected him to be at this time last year, but I'd still like to see some proof that he has a long term plan for the club because I still get the impression that he is not looking beyond what happens with the first team from one month to the next.

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Good reply Bob and as always summed up in a far better way than I could ever put it.

I think my views are similar to yours on the subject and your last paragraph in particular strikes a chord with me and echoes my sentiments exactly.

Think he's done a good job in difficult circumstances, having to ship out the high earners and risk a few signings from the lower leagues that didn't quite work out. He's steadied the ship and stopped us from going into free fall that quite easily could have happened.

However, with the squad we have now I don't think he's got them playing to their full potential as of yet. Hopefully in these final few games it all clicks and we sneak in the play-offs, which would be a fantastic achievement all things considered.

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Originally Posted by Tandy

I think most fans realise he is doing a fantastic job, it is unfortunate we have a few who will not be happy till they drive him out.
What makes me laugh is they come up with ridiculous reasons and replacements.:facepalm:

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If you can't debate the thread why don't you just keep quiet, you pearler

Number of teenagers from the Academy given a first team debut by Lennie Lawrence in league or FA/League Cup games = 6
by Dave Jones = 10
by Malky Mackay = 10
by Ole = 1
by Russell Slade = 0

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Number of teenagers from the Academy given a first team debut by Lennie Lawrence in league or FA/League Cup games = 6
by Dave Jones = 10
by Malky Mackay = 10
by Ole = 1
by Russell Slade = 0

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I'd imagine all of Mackay's would have been in a league cup match.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Number of teenagers from the Academy given a first team debut by Lennie Lawrence in league or FA/League Cup games = 6
by Dave Jones = 10
by Malky Mackay = 10
by Ole = 1
by Russell Slade = 0

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Bob, are you sure there was only one for Ole?

I can remember Healy and Tom James coming on against Chelsea and I'm sure he played Barnum-Bobb too.

Is it cos Barnum Bobb and Healy came from other clubs?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Number of teenagers from the Academy given a first team debut by Lennie Lawrence in league or FA/League Cup games = 6
by Dave Jones = 10
by Malky Mackay = 10
by Ole = 1
by Russell Slade = 0

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Lennie Lawrence =175 games
Dave Jones = 325 games and he only played 10 academy players.:facepalm:
Malky = 125 games
Ole = 30 games
Russell = 79 games

Slade as only been in charge for 3 cup games at Cardiff so not had much chance of playing Academy players.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Number of teenagers from the Academy given a first team debut by Lennie Lawrence in league or FA/League Cup games = 6
by Dave Jones = 10
by Malky Mackay = 10
by Ole = 1
by Russell Slade = 0

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How many of Malky's came in that one FA cup game he wrote off away at Macclesfield?

How many played more than 1 game?

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Originally Posted by thehumblegringo

Bob, are you sure there was only one for Ole?

I can remember Healy and Tom James coming on against Chelsea and I'm sure he played Barnum-Bobb too.

Is it cos Barnum Bobb and Healy came from other clubs?

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Yes it is - James was the only Academy product Ole gave a debut to.

It's crazy people are so desperate to find a negative about Slade that disingenuous stats are being presented even by Bob.

I'd love to see more academy products get a chance but players looking good in development matches means not a lot for actual first team matches.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

How many of Malky's came in that one FA cup game he wrote off away at Macclesfield?

How many played more than 1 game?

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Right, so having that Slade "has done about as much with the youth team as the last 4 managers before him did", you start trying to backtrack when I show that this is just not true.

17 year old Joe Ralls was a pretty regular selection in league games during Malky Mackay's first season here and started in the League Cup Semi Final First Leg at Palace. Ben Nugent was nineteen when he made the first of the fifteen appearances he made for us during our Championship winning season (Mackay's second season) and Declan John was eighteen when given his league debut by Mackay in our first Premier League match - Malky and Ole picked him twenty three times that season between them.

All I'm really interested in doing here is to show that to claim Slade has done as much for youth development at Cardiff as his four predecessors is rubbish.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

It's crazy people are so desperate to find a negative about Slade that disingenuous stats are being presented even by Bob.

I'd love to see more academy products get a chance but players looking good in development matches means not a lot for actual first team matches.

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They aren't disingenuous stats at all - it's you who was being disingenuous when you claimed Slade was as willing to give youth as much of a chance as his four predecessors.

But Joe Ralls was loaned out, Ben Nugent was forced on both due to injury then loaned out and the released.

So you've named 3 youth players under both Malky and Ole, 1 of which was used in an emergency and never again (being honest Nugent was never going to make it) and Ralls who was used out of desperation then loaned out and has made more progress under Slade than both.

What about the other 7 youth team players Malky played? Because imo he threw them to the wolves against Northampton and Macclesfield in the cups and then never bothered with them again.

Declan John being loaned out mistifies me but I still think he was rushed in to the team but to act as if Malky and Ole did much different to slade with the youth team is disingenuous.

DJ is my favourite city manager ever and I'm aware he did bring plenty of youth players through but was still slagged off in exactly the same way slade is now. Strange how things change to fit the narrative of the masses.

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Originally Posted by Tandy

Lennie Lawrence =175 games
Dave Jones = 325 games and he only played 10 academy players.:facepalm:
Malky = 125 games
Ole = 30 games
Russell = 79 games

Slade as only been in charge for 3 cup games at Cardiff so not had much chance of playing Academy players.

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He had two months at the back end of last season when we had nothing to play for - none of our previous four managers ever had a season where we were not in relegation trouble or still hoping to go up as we entered March. Russell Slade has had plenty of chances to pick some kids if he was of a mind to do it.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

They aren't disingenuous stats at all - it's you who was being disingenuous when you claimed Slade was as willing to give youth as much of a chance as his four predecessors.

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I've just discovered another problem with this new board - your avatar is hurting my eyes! :hehe:

That combination of colours was never good but it looks particularly bad here for some reason :sunglasses:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

They aren't disingenuous stats at all - it's you who was being disingenuous when you claimed Slade was as willing to give youth as much of a chance as his four predecessors.

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Slade has managed city for 70 games during which time Joe Ralls has flourished and become a much better player than he ever was under Malky and ole.

I'd love to see slade play more academy players but to act like the club was pumping out quality youth players under Malky and ole is disingenuous. Every manager we've had since DJ has underused the academy as do most top level managers.

It's a shame but I imagine it's because 90% of academy products won't make the grade and a few of the 10% will slip through the net due to immense pressures top level managers are under.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

He had two months at the back end of last season when we had nothing to play for - none of our previous four managers ever had a season where we were not in relegation trouble or still hoping to go up as we entered March. Russell Slade has had plenty of chances to pick some kids if he was of a mind to do it.

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Maybe slade didn't want to throw youth players into a toxic atmosphere at the club's lowest ebb?

Maybe not but you don't know the reason any more than I do.

Maybe our youth players just aren't that good?

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Originally Posted by Barry Dragon

So if we reach playoffs and dont make it up, he should still go? Why?

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That wasn't what I said was it ?

I said " " especially if we fluke promotion ".

So even if by some miracle the numpty took us up then I know
he wouldn't keep us up.

That's why.

So if slade gets us promoted it'll have been a fluke!? How do you fluke a 46 game season plus a 2 legged knock out game?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

But Joe Ralls was loaned out, Ben Nugent was forced on both due to injury then loaned out and the released.

So you've named 3 youth players under both Malky and Ole, 1 of which was used in an emergency and never again (being honest Nugent was never going to make it) and Ralls who was used out of desperation then loaned out and has made more progress under Slade than both.

What about the other 7 youth team players Malky played? Because imo he threw them to the wolves against Northampton and Macclesfield in the cups and then never bothered with them again.

Declan John being loaned out mistifies me but I still think he was rushed in to the team but to act as if Malky and Ole did much different to slade with the youth team is disingenuous.

DJ is my favourite city manager ever and I'm aware he did bring plenty of youth players through but was still slagged off in exactly the same way slade is now. Strange how things change to fit the narrative of the masses.

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What I find truly strange is that you are still trying to justify a claim you made which I have proved was rubbish - when you said "The man has done a cracking job and has done about as much with the youth team as the last 4 managers before him did" you did not qualify that by saying that any youth players picked by the other four didn't count if they played in Cup matches, were used in "desperation", were later loaned out or were "never going to make it" etc, etc, etc - we cannot have the same discussion about whether any youngsters given a debut by Russell Slade really count or not because it's not happened yet.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

He had two months at the back end of last season when we had nothing to play for - none of our previous four managers ever had a season where we were not in relegation trouble or still hoping to go up as we entered March. Russell Slade has had plenty of chances to pick some kids if he was of a mind to do it.

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Trouble is Slade hasn't got half a mind to do it let alone a whole one.

Our recent form has only arrived because he was forced into it personell wise.

Oh and he picks useless Piggy Malone regardless of the fact the man is a plank.

Are you Chepstow in disguise ? I think you are.

Despite our success Russell still wants you as a fan

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

What I find truly strange is that you are still trying to justify a claim you made which I have proved was rubbish - when you said "The man has done a cracking job and has done about as much with the youth team as the last 4 managers before him did" you did not qualify that by saying that any youth players picked by the other four didn't count if they played in Cup matches, were used in "desperation", were later loaned out or were "never going to make it" etc, etc, etc - we cannot have the same discussion about whether any youngsters given a debut by Russell Slade really count or not because it's not happened yet.

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I made an exaggerated comment because this isn't really a stick to beat slade with yet. The man has hardly been here 2 seasons ffs and has been under immense pressure the whole time.

And you could almost say he did as much as Malky and Ole as both of them did more or less **** all for the development for any youth players barring Joe Ralls who has improved since slade has been here.

If he's still here in 2 years and the patterns the same it will be a stick to beat him with but it's also one you could beat 90% of top level managers with.

And that's ignoring the fact that our academy is still very much in its infancy compared to the ones top level ones at Spurs, Southampton and man united.

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Originally Posted by BlueWales

Our recent form has only arrived because he was forced into it personell wise.

Oh and he picks useless Piggy Malone regardless of the fact the man is a plank.

Are you Chepstow in disguise ? I think you are.

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Malone may be a weaker link but calling him useless is very harsh considering he's played the majority of games for a team sitting 7th in the league.

I suppose you're clamouring for Fabio despite him being incapable of defending.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

What I find truly strange is that you are still trying to justify a claim you made which I have proved was rubbish - when you said "The man has done a cracking job and has done about as much with the youth team as the last 4 managers before him did" you did not qualify that by saying that any youth players picked by the other four didn't count if they played in Cup matches, were used in "desperation", were later loaned out or were "never going to make it" etc, etc, etc - we cannot have the same discussion about whether any youngsters given a debut by Russell Slade really count or not because it's not happened yet.

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Paul is right .

However Slade has given a few players more game time than the the past two managers, and the main ones that spring to mind are Connolly , Mason and Ralls.

Whether picking the younger players from our development squads would see us in a better position than we are in now , is a very difficult one to judge, in this tough ,uncompromising league.

To be fair, Slade has had chances to play youth players , most notably at the end of last season when we had nothing to play for, and didn't. Choosing instead to have gabbidon on the bench.

Slade is paid to win football matches. The last ten games of last season we won 5 drew 3 and lost 2. He wouldn't of lasted 2 minutes if he'd had thrown a load of Academy players in just to see if they could hack it. To say there was nothing to play for is ludicrous. Them 10 games have built in a winning mentality.
Do you think Slade is some sort of idiot? If the Academy players were better then he would play them.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

To be fair, Slade has had chances to play youth players , most notably at the end of last season when we had nothing to play for, and didn't. Choosing instead to have gabbidon on the bench.

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I wonder if there is heavy politics involved in who plays , and when, because we seeing the same happening with Sammy Ameobi, are we seeing the same , I am sure his bench place could go to Harris or O' Sullivan ??

In DJ tenure-ship we had a man who didn't play Ramsey in a cup final , allow Gunter a regular slot ??

Slade is managing what he can , where he can , when he can , he does not have full control, surly we can see that ?

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Originally Posted by BlueWales

Our recent form has only arrived because he was forced into it personell wise.

Oh and he picks useless Piggy Malone regardless of the fact the man is a plank.

Are you Chepstow in disguise ? I think you are.

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Hilarious....... You plank!!
You are a hopeless case.
Change your name to king Canute........ You are trying to hold back a tide of support for slade with well..... Quite Ridiculous suggestions. You are in an ever dwindling minority you basket case.

Ramsey was 16 and bad barely played for us. I know people like to kid themselves that we would have won the cup if Ramsey had been on at the start, but they are deluding themselves.
I think he would have been out muscled and kicked out of the game and our midfield overrun.
Far better to bring him on when they were tired.

There are some serious rose tinted glasses about what he did do after coming on too, but that's understandable, we a wanted him to be the player we thought he could become.

I'd love O'Sullivan to make it but if he was that good would be be loaned to a league two team?

Joe Ralls was loaned out to a championship side at least and made his mark.

The difference in quality between league 1 and the championship is huge and the gap to league 2 is even bigger. I don't necessarily think a player doing well in league 2 or at the bottom of league 1 means they're ready for top half of the championship football.

What good would it have done fielding a young team at the end of last season only for them to get hammered? Youth players have to be eased in not thrown to the wolves and humiliated as they were at Macclesfield.

If slade is here in 2 years and has had zero progress fair enough but it seems a harsh stick to beat him with after not even 2 seasons.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

Ramsey was 16 and bad barely played for us. I know people like to kid themselves that we would have won the cup if Ramsey had been on at the start, but they are deluding themselves.
I think he would have been out muscled and kicked out of the game and our midfield overrun.
Far better to bring him on when they were tired.

There are some serious rose tinted glasses about what he did do after coming on too, but that's understandable, we a wanted him to be the player we thought he could become.

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I always think the same he was 16 and the Pompey midfield was class! One of their centre midfielders in that game went on to play for AC Milan Ffs.

Edit - Consequently, Nwankwo Kanu played as a lone striker, with support from a five-man midfield of Niko Kranjčar, John Utaka, Pedro Mendes, Lassana Diarra and Sulley Muntari. Sol Campbell, Glen Johnson and David James were the only three English players in the starting line-up, with Campbell and former Arsenal team-mate Kanu both looking to win the FA Cup for the third time (they had won the competition twice with Arsenal).

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Threads like this show how fickle football fans are. Manager gets us to 7th 2 points outside the playoffs with 7 games left, under a transfer embargo and they want him sacked.

Slade is the first manager I've seen us have get the slack for everything that goes wrong but everything he does right is just luck.

Playing the current system by luck
Signed immers by luck
Winning games by luck.

All because he isn't a fashionable enough manager for "huge" club Cardiff City.

Here's another spin on it, when we went on a poor run at the start of the season I think Slade was actually unlucky. We were playing decent stuff and creating chances but the goals weren't going in.

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Good points, I can't believe one of the most popular threads is about getting rid of a manager of one of the best form teams in the league, are we the most fickle fans in the football league?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I'd love O'Sullivan to make it but if he was that good would be be loaned to a league two team?

Joe Ralls was loaned out to a championship side at least and made his mark.

The difference in quality between league 1 and the championship is huge and the gap to league 2 is even bigger. I don't necessarily think a player doing well in league 2 or at the bottom of league 1 means they're ready for top half of the championship football.

What good would it have done fielding a young team at the end of last season only for them to get hammered? Youth players have to be eased in not thrown to the wolves and humiliated as they were at Macclesfield.

If slade is here in 2 years and has had zero progress fair enough but it seems a harsh stick to beat him with after not even 2 seasons.

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Nobody is saying that he should have played 11 youth players even at the end of last season.

I believe introducing a few youngsters in and around the squad at the end of last season would have been far more beneficial than having the likes of a washed up Danny Gabbidon on the bench.

The same applies to the Shrewsbury game this year. Surely even Tandy who is probably Russell Slade himself can't defend the decision of starting the waste of space Tamas in front of Oshilaja?!