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Wherever you find a concentration of children there is always a danger that the pedos are not very far away. The issue that you highlight could still be a problem in a well run academy, as their focus is on gaining the trust of vulnerable young people. The type of bevaviour that I am talking about is a different thing altogether.Quote:
Originally Posted by ken smith
What's actually happened is that Cardiff City Football Club has released a statement admitting that, following an investigation into allegations of bullying and abuse by current and former employees, they have a number of significant concerns relating to what they regard as an unacceptable coaching environment which was magnified due to a lack of effective safeguarding processes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
People haven't the first idea. These lads are moving to a new place hundreds of miles from home and family at 16 years of age. Add to that a highly competitive environment where out of 15 or so lads maybe only one will be offerred a pro contract. Your colleagues are your competitors, you can't have many off days, performance levels have to be consistantly good or above. Imagine a working environment like that away from your support network at 16? And some of the middle aged dick heads on here call them 'Snowflakes' they wouldn't last a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw
I seem to recall that you used to purposely make bad passes to your team mates so they wouldn't look good. You'd never fit in with the core of any team with an attitude like that, so you were doing yourself a tremendous disservice by even being there. Football is a team game and if you don't fit in you are fecked, as you discovered for yourself. If you make other players look good, the manager will notice it, and your teammates will return the compliment. Football is a team game, and that is why you are drilled to perform as a unit with no weak links.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Can you show me where i said that gave bad passes to team mates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Are you denying it? I usually have a good memory, and it struck me as being an odd thing to say at the time, as it is something that would never have crossed my mind. If it wasn't you, them somebody on here definitely said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
like all academies we will have a welfare officer supporting all players from 7 to 16 years of age . all players and parents get a copy of code of conduct . any concerns or complaints by players or parents should go down this route in the first instance . I assume our welfare officer will come under the microscope as part of an investigation in the coming days .
I'm can't ever recall saying something like that. You're the one saying that i said it so if you can be arsed, find it and it'll be there in black and white, i've no problem with being called out. If i did say it then it would have been a pretty daft thing to do for an aspiring footballer to do as anyone with an ounce of football knowledge can see if a player is deliberately playing poor passes-it wouldn't have got away with it, although if it's out there then show me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Your right the lack of real detail suggests the club just want an end to the whole affair, and very importantly out of the media highlight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
The sport is a tough one and only the tough survive, hard rules, tough man management and language never hurt anyone, in fact in my experience its character building ,those who survive go onto succeed ,lead,and achieve.
Poor old Jimmy, his hero Bellamy found to be a bully.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
Your spot on .Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
Sometimes folk get lost in thier desire to have a go at certain posters , no matter what the subject matter is and thier train of thought suffers.
Bias can show in one's blind support too.Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
On another note, do the It-never-did-me-any-harm brigade (always nice to welcome a new brigade) not think that perhaps one can learn how to deal with the pressure of being a footballer in other ways and not just by being barked at every five minutes? Or is it too wussy to help a 14/15 year old to be more balanced and thoughtful?
I doubt that the kid gloves approach prepares anyone for real competition in life.
So you are quite ok with the idea of breaking kids in preparation for real competition in life and leaving those not strong enough to fend for themselves? It's actually those who aren't as strong who need our support.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieBird
That's probably a different thread Eric. In truth the suffering of the weak is a natural by product in the honing of strength. That's sounds a bit harsh in today's social set up , but it's none the less true for all that .
Do we want to nurture strength and leadership ? Apparently not any longer, but if we dont then there's a price to be paid as in anything else, and in this case it is the sacrifice of those who could ultimately protect the weak in exchange for not upsetting the weak a bit.
As I said, it's a whole subject in itself
Crikey. Some people really need to go back to living in caves.
Isn’t it a shame that this thread is in danger of being hijacked, firstly, by someone who tried to turn it into a discussion about himself and then by old men, who see “political correctness gone mad” around every corner, trying to politicise things with talk about what it was like in their day.
I’ve seen and heard it said on many occasions throughout my life that the art of good management includes an appreciation of who among your charges benefits from a kick up the backside and who among them prospers from a more diplomatic approach.
People are different and if a manager adopts a take it or leave it approach whereby the same standards are applied to everyone, they run the risk of talented employees with great potential falling by the wayside because of that inflexible approach – if that is happening in a profession like youth coaching at a football club then surely that has to be counter productive to said club?
Returning to what this thread is supposed to be about, let’s not forget that we’re talking here about a club whose Academy is failing completely in the task it was set up for – whatever the methods used in the past decade or so have been, they can only be judged as having failed.
My first instinct on reading the club statement was that there were an awful lot of words which, taken as a whole, conveyed a vague impression without actually saying anything meaningful – a whitewash in other words.
Furthermore, it was a whitewash which included a ready made scapegoat, who was no longer at the club, who could be seen as the “root of the problem”. Now, I don’t think anyone who is aware of the Craig Bellamy persona can admit to being totally surprised by the accusations which surfaced nearly a year ago – even his greatest fan would have to accept the possibility that they could, conceivably, be true.
However, Cardiff City’s Academy was failing in it’s primary function long before Craig Bellamy became involved with it and, although I’m not going to break a confidence here, it's my understanding that the problems did not begin and end with Craig Bellamy.
What I can say without breaking that confidence is that kids in the pre Academy age group at Cardiff City (ages seven to eight) are being told to “smash em” and “take skin” in their training sessions – I can’t speak for others, but I wouldn’t want a child of mine to be the subject of an approach like that
Is this how Donald Trump started?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
That's the thing - it may well be coincidental - we don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Plenty of people were pulled up for making assumptions about the causes of the Sala plane crash before the official report and rightly so.
I'm glad you're magnanimous to admit your error
Did you find anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
I never looked, but not many posters reminiscine about their days of being a YTS football trainee. We may even be the only ones on here who have had a direct long-term coaching relationship with ex-professional/international football players. However, we did have varying experiences, so I would say it points towards individual character as to whether or not a person can handle the tough love environment. I have no regrets, and I thoroughly enjoyed my 5 years of competitive football, before I headed off to university.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
With you on this. My 8 year old plays on a Saturday and you come across some teams where that approach has been instilled.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
He’s also coached a couple of times a week by a former pro (at a well known academy in Bristol) who learnt from Osian Roberts and their attitude is very much the opposite of this bullying approach.
I certainly don’t want that kind of attitude instilled in him and I don’t think it’s at all necessary.
The relevance of your alleged experiences from ~40years ago is zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
I am very confident that many people on here have similar and more recent experience of football at a professional/semi pro level - they just choose not to share it
Of the 2 of you I know whose insights and thoughts I relate to.
You are right, it's not for me or anyone else to bore the bollocks off people on here about my experiences 28 years ago. I only got involved because it struck a chord with me. It's not the WB or Tuerto show, loads of people have experienced bullying in the workplace, and it is relative, especially when we were young.👍
Why would I hero worship Bellamy ? Do I know you ?Quote:
Originally Posted by CCFCC3PO
Do you know what happened then ?
The club want to put this to bed , they have to make a PC statement that Jim White and the likes will be dribbling over .
Our very own PC brigade are out in force as well ..
Parents believe their child (Johnny ) is the next messi , they find out after a long process and many years following Johnny round the country that actually Johnny isn’t good enough to make the grade at a certain level , perhaps Johnny isnt mentally strong enough ?
I wonder how they deal with this fact ?
It has to be someone’s fault surely , Johnny is a brilliant footballer .
I think to be a successful footballer you need to be mentally strong as well .
If you play a bad game the press aren’t going to be very nice at the highest level , who you going to blame then ?
Danny Murphy said more or less the same on talkSPORT the other day , an ex professional footballer ....
If believing that young people shouldn't be bullied or abused at work is considered 'PC', then I definitely fall into that category.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
Using a term like 'PC' in this context is a bit pathetic though, isn't it? A bit childish. A bit idiotic. A bit ****ing ridiculous, really.
For someone who doesn't know the facts, you're coming up with alot of assumptions. The club have admitted that it went on in their house, it couldn't get any more clear cut, they even investigated themselves. How would you react if it was your son or daughter hundreds of miles from home? Would you dismiss them and call them a liar?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
Bellamy has his say.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50186448
Is it just me or is this comment a bit barbed? :sherlock:Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueToujours
"I have probably relied too much on my own life experiences playing under some of the best coaches in the world rather than assessing the sensitivities of a new generation of players."
That is mainly a very mature and encouraging response - especially for anyone who has hopes of Bellamy coming back to the club as a manager or coach in the future, like me.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueToujours
The only grating bit was "I have probably relied too much on my own life experiences playing under some of the best coaches in the world rather than assessing the sensitivities of a new generation of players." That sounds too much like 'life of hard knocks' good, modern 'snowflakes' bad. Not necessary.
I highly doubt it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Just everyone else knows what cocks they would sound like if they tried to turn every thread into a topic about them.
Nobody cares mate.
That's the point I was trying to make, but it seems as though you are not allowed to comment about such things on here. One of my coaches came through the ranks with Alex Ferguson, so they would have had a similar outlook and shared experiences about the game of football. He was a perfectly reasonable fella, but he did like to have a good rant every now and then. It was nothing personal, he was just trying to get the best out of the players. At the end of the day some people can handle it, and some people can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
"I have probably relied too much on my own life experiences playing under some of the best coaches in the world rather than assessing the sensitivities of a new generation of players."Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
He knows deep down that those "old fashioned" methods work, and they made him into the great player that he was. Going forward we are going to get battered by the South American & East European teams, as I don't think they are going to be changing their ways anytime soon. We saw in the recent match against Croatia that professional football is a game for the big boys, and you need to be able to stand up to them.
Perhaps Mr Bellamy's use of the "modern sensitivities" is not meant to be condescending and simply acknowledges that things have changed. Where he's wrong is that they're not modern at all - what's changed is that people are more open and not bottling up their troubles. Maybe there are some who feel entitled for their minor, inconsequential feelings to be addressed but those things are still resolved by talking about them.
Bellers himself has talked of his issues as a lad and while he was able to overcome them in regard to his career they seem to have affected his personal life and were then, allegedly, being passed on to the next generation of players. It seems bizarre there are people who think this is fine and all part of the game.
It's not just about having the right mindset for competition - if you're a young man or woman training for the Olympics you'd need the appropriate mental strength and focus but in football there are other elements - dealing with 30,000 people giving you stick or dumping their dreams on your shoulders and expecting the players to fix the uptight and vicarious lives of supporters. Then there are the sponsors and the media demanding you live up to their billing and investment.
The whole system is a egomaniacal, neurotic mess with dubious values but if you don't fit in, lads, if you can't handle me becoming enraged when you misplace a pass, and you can't shoulder my worries about my own life being taken out on you then jog on.
Wait until they start on the rugby and the military :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
That 3 for 1 all in a row was brilliant 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by thehumblegringo
You can't pleas everybody, especially those who don't even know what day of the week it is :biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by dembethewarrior
For **** sake you don’t half ramble some utter shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
You can't beat of bit of real life experience when it comes to chewing the fat on football message boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by dembethewarrior
How disrespectful! Wales Bales clearly has a lot of real life experience we could all learn from. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by dembethewarrior