Confirmed: Josh Murphy to Preston on a season long loan

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Agree with the move, but I don't think the 3 managers that have given him an opportunity have used him correctly. Why did Warnock spend so much on a player that doesn't track back and play defender and attacker simultaneously.. Its not his fault he was bought by a manager that can't have scouted him to know how he plays... Could have made more of his chances but it all falls back to the type of player he is (and isn't)

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I'm not sure I agree about the way Warnock uses wingers.
I don't think he asks for an excessive amount of tracking back from them, and he gives them license to take on their man time and time again. if they lose the ball it isn't a big deal unlike in some systems, and if they beat their man the team are often "in"
what playing in a Warnock team does mean is you're playing on the break a lot, are going to be isolated, when you get the ball it's going to be at head hight hurtling towards you from 40 yards away, and you'll either beat your man or lose it and then you might not see the ball for another 10 minutes.
some players do well in that role - I e. NML. others I think need to feel their way into a game and need to be constantly involved more to play well

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

I'm not sure I've seen us set up in the way you say for quite some time?

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There were a few games against teams below us under Harris we’d be on the front foot a lot more than we are these days but yeah not for a while now. Not that it excuses him, just look at how Giles has started in a MM team.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

the £1 million quid or so we might be saving in loaning him out might make the difference in being able to afford to keep Morrison or Ralls next season.

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It's a sensible decision, as he's not going to play but I dont think it affects Morrison or Ralls etc. I imagine they're just saving as much money as possible. I fully expect a major clear out in the summer.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Like that massive loan fee City got from Sheffield United for Gary Madine? You know, the one you imagined.....

As for a loan fee for Murphy, don't be so daft.

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You haven't got a clue whether we have or haven't received a loan fee for Murphy, know-all. Sheffield United did pay a large loan fee for Madine plus a bonus when they went up. It was publicised at the time and I have relatives in Sheffield who are United fans and they confirmed it to me. Prove they didnt, Otherwise, jog on.

Would have liked Murphy to be tried as a striker.

That’s got to be his last game for us

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Originally Posted by dml1954

You haven't got a clue whether we have or haven't received a loan fee for Murphy, know-all. Sheffield United did pay a large loan fee for Madine plus a bonus when they went up. It was publicised at the time and I have relatives in Sheffield who are United fans and they confirmed it to me. Prove they didnt, Otherwise, jog on.

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You've been asked to prove that Sheffield United paid a 'large loan fee' for Gary Madine on a number of occasions. You've never managed to do so. That's because the story is fiction.

As for Preston paying a loan fee for Murphy, that's also fiction. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would realise that.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

You've been asked to prove that Sheffield United paid a 'large loan fee' for Gary Madine on a number of occasions. You've never managed to do so. That's because the story is fiction.

As for Preston paying a loan fee for Murphy, that's also fiction. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would realise that.

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So, you cant prove that City didn't get a loan fee for Madine. You also have no idea whether City have got a loan fee for Murphy or not. And yet you state categorically that not paying a loan fee in both situations are facts. You then have the gall to accuse me of lying. Really, you have a grossly inflated opinion about yourself, your knowledge of Cardiff City and your general importance in life. I think you need help, honestly.

Although sharing the perception that he usually appears to be disinterested and uncommitted when he plays for City, I'll remind folks that he has a TWIN who plays for Newcastle.

It would be fair to say that Jacob Murphy has been in and out of the Newcastle team (in, at the mo) and loaned out a few times. But when I've seen him play, he appears to be far more committed than Josh - and is prepared to track back, being described as a winger/wingback. But, I've checked the Newcastle fan's forum and they are scathing about his defending ("on another planet" being one of the printable comments) - although fairly complimentary about his crosses and dead-ball kicks.

Interestingly, he plays on the right side, whereas Josh has been used mainly on the opposite side. He appears to be trusted now by Bruce, as he played 27 times for Newcastle last season.

Both twins were good enough to be called up for young-England teams.

Not advocating that we keep him (far from it), just wondering if it might have been an option to play him on the right.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Really, you have a grossly inflated opinion about yourself, your knowledge of Cardiff City and your general importance in life. I think you need help, honestly.

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Physician, heal thyself.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

So, you cant prove that City didn't get a loan fee for Madine. You also have no idea whether City have got a loan fee for Murphy or not. And yet you state categorically that not paying a loan fee in both situations are facts. You then have the gall to accuse me of lying. Really, you have a grossly inflated opinion about yourself, your knowledge of Cardiff City and your general importance in life. I think you need help, honestly.

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Go on then. Find a link with info about Madine's loan fee. You're the one claiming it.

I could imagine you as a lawyer...."Yes, the defendant did kill the man. How do I know that? Because I do. It's up to you to prove he didn't"....

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Go on then. Find a link with info about Madine's loan fee. You're the one claiming it.

I could imagine you as a lawyer...."Yes, the defendant did kill the man. How do I know that? Because I do. It's up to you to prove he didn't"....

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No it isn't. I don't have to prove anything. TLG brought it up earlier in this thread and stated it was fact that no loan fee or bonus was paid. I have told you my side - let him prove the opposite (he cant by the way).

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Originally Posted by dml1954

So, you cant prove that City didn't get a loan fee for Madine.

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There is only one person who has ever claimed that City got a 'large loan fee' from Sheffield United for Gary Madine. That person is you. You did so in a hopeless bid to defend the transfer fee that Neil Warnock paid Bolton for Madine. You've been asked by several people on a number of occasions to provide links to any press reports which mention this supposed 'large loan fee' paid by Sheffield United, but you've been unable to do so. Instead, you're now asking me to prove Sheffield didn't pay a 'large loan fee' for Madine - something that was clearly a figment of your imagination in the first place.

I'd like to turn the tables a little if I may make so bold. I understand from relatives who live on the south coast that Cardiff City paid an enormous loan fee to Bournemouth for Brad Smith in January 2020. Prove they didn't.

😂

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

There is only one person who has ever claimed that City got a 'large loan fee' from Sheffield United for Gary Madine. That person is you. You did so in a hopeless bid to defend the transfer fee that Neil Warnock paid Bolton for Madine. You've been asked by several people on a number of occasions to provide links to any press reports which mention this supposed 'large loan fee' paid by Sheffield United, but you've been unable to do so. Instead, you're now asking me to prove Sheffield didn't pay a 'large loan fee' for Madine - something that was clearly a figment of your imagination in the first place.

I'd like to turn the tables a little if I may make so bold. I understand from relatives who live on the south coast that Cardiff City paid an enormous loan fee to Bournemouth for Brad Smith in January 2020. Prove they didn't.

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I have no idea if a loan fee was paid, enormous or otherwise, for Brad Smith and have no interest whether one was or not. You are the one who appears obsessed with Gary Madine and keep raising it. Your petty obsession with asking people to provide links to approve or disprove things is rather odd, as is your obsession with denigrating anything to do with Cardiff City. You are the one who hijacked this thread relating to Josh Murphy, merely because I pointed out to another poster that we have probably got a loan fee for him. You stick your nose into other peoples conversations constantly, trying to make yourself look clever and failing miserably every time. You are just a sad old ex Cardiff City fan who cant bear the fact that City have been successful ever since Tan took over and you got the hump. Some of your comments about him are borderline racist. You need to wind your neck in.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

There is only one person who has ever claimed that City got a 'large loan fee' from Sheffield United for Gary Madine. That person is you. You did so in a hopeless bid to defend the transfer fee that Neil Warnock paid Bolton for Madine. You've been asked by several people on a number of occasions to provide links to any press reports which mention this supposed 'large loan fee' paid by Sheffield United, but you've been unable to do so. Instead, you're now asking me to prove Sheffield didn't pay a 'large loan fee' for Madine - something that was clearly a figment of your imagination in the first place.

I'd like to turn the tables a little if I may make so bold. I understand from relatives who live on the south coast that Cardiff City paid an enormous loan fee to Bournemouth for Brad Smith in January 2020. Prove they didn't.

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transfermarkt seems to think we paid a loan fee of about £1m for Harry Wilson last season, which I can believe

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Originally Posted by dml1954

I have no idea if a loan fee was paid, enormous or otherwise, for Brad Smith and have no interest whether one was or not. You are the one who appears obsessed with Gary Madine and keep raising it. Your petty obsession with asking people to provide links to approve or disprove things is rather odd, as is your obsession with denigrating anything to do with Cardiff City. You are the one who hijacked this thread relating to Josh Murphy, merely because I pointed out to another poster that we have probably got a loan fee for him. You stick your nose into other peoples conversations constantly, trying to make yourself look clever and failing miserably every time. You are just a sad old ex Cardiff City fan who cant bear the fact that City have been successful ever since Tan took over and you got the hump. Some of your comments about him are borderline racist. You need to wind your neck in.

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Have I upset you?

Quote from an online media interview with Neil Warnock in January 2019, relating to Gary Madine’s loan move to Sheffield United - took me all of 2 minutes to find - read it and weep TLG and Mr half a bee - now who is the idiot.


”They create a lot of chances do Sheffield, and I’ve said to him: ‘go and get my old club up and get them promoted’.

”He’s felt such a heavy load on his head here, starting with missing a penalty but sometimes it’s good to wipe the slate clean.

“Financially it’s very good for us as well, everything is fully paid up and there are incentives for them going up as well.”

Come on then, what are you waiting for ? Cat got your tongue ?

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Come on then, what are you waiting for ? Cat got your tongue ?

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I say, old chap - I see no mention of a large loan fee. Do you have a link to this interview so I can see if I can find any mention of it? Thanks awfully.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I say, old chap - I see no mention of a large loan fee. Do you have a link to this interview so I can see if I can find any mention of it? Thanks awfully.

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Hang on, so now you think that I have typed out a fake interview by Neil Warnock to make it look like we got money in for Madine ? !!. For the last two and a half years you have been trying to ridicule me for daring to suggest that anyone in their right minds would hand any money over to City for the over priced waste of space (your opinion) that was Gary Madine. Now that is is patently wrong (they paid all his wages, plus a loan fee, plus a promotion bonus which in total amounted to a ‘large amount of money’ and probably well in excess of £1m, which is what I said in the first place) and yet you still wriggle around and try to deflect any flak from yourself by pedantically playing with words and trying to be clever. As I said before - jog on and get a life.
https://www.dai-sport.com/football-c...ffield-united/

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Hang on…..

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So no mention of a large loan fee, then?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

So no mention of a large loan fee, then?

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You don’t like being proved wrong, do you. Makes you look and feel particularly stupid doesn't it, after all this time lording it over this board and its members. FACT - we got over £1m from Sheffield United for Gary Madine’s loan.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

You don’t like being proved wrong, do you. Makes you look and feel particularly stupid doesn't it, after all this time lording it over this board and its members. FACT - we got over £1m from Sheffield United for Gary Madine’s loan.

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Really? FACT, huh? As the great man himself once said, prove it.

😉

I doubt very much whether there was a loan fee for Murphy and it is highly likely we will be picking up the majority of his wages.

Here’s the article;-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...nited-15629066

The only quotes relating to finance are from Neil Warnock.

No mention of loan fees, large or otherwise, in these;-

https://www.footballparadise.com/she...-from-cardiff/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46786641

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...m-cardiff-city

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...effield-united

Seems to me that unless the loan fee we got from Sheffield United was more than £6 million, he still was a terrible buy by Warnock.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Here’s the article;-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...nited-15629066

The only quotes relating to finance are from Neil Warnock.

No mention of loan fees, large or otherwise, in these;-

https://www.footballparadise.com/she...-from-cardiff/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46786641

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...m-cardiff-city

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...effield-united

Seems to me that unless the loan fee we got from Sheffield United was more than £6 million, he still was a terrible buy by Warnock.

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of course it was a terrible buy, it was obvious at the time. an awful signing.
comfortably the worst purchase we've ever made which is saying something

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Here’s the article;-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...nited-15629066

The only quotes relating to finance are from Neil Warnock.

No mention of loan fees, large or otherwise, in these;-

https://www.footballparadise.com/she...-from-cardiff/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46786641

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...m-cardiff-city

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/news...effield-united

Seems to me that unless the loan fee we got from Sheffield United was more than £6 million, he still was a terrible buy by Warnock.

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Not quite sure why you feel the need to get involved but anyway I have already provided the link, as above, where Warnock clearly states the financial situation relating to Madine’s loan move which includes incentives relating to the deal. The full figures were ‘undisclosed’ presumably because both clubs wanted to keep them quiet. My relatives in Yorkshire have indicated that the the incentive payment was around £500000 if United went up (which they did) and on top of that there were his wages, probably more than £20000 a week, which were paid in full. A loan fee was also paid but that figure has never been released. Warnock stated that the deal was financially lucrative for City. My issue with TLG is that he has always ridiculed that we got anything for Madine and will continue to do so. I have never stated that we got £6m loan fee for Madine but I do feel that his original transfer fee was good value, bearing in mind he helped us get up in 2018 and at the time we were in desperate need of a striker and £6m was the going rate in the January window.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

I doubt very much whether there was a loan fee for Murphy and it is highly likely we will be picking up the majority of his wages.

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50%.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Not quite sure why you feel the need to get involved but anyway I have already provided the link, as above, where Warnock clearly states the financial situation relating to Madine’s loan move which includes incentives relating to the deal. The full figures were ‘undisclosed’ presumably because both clubs wanted to keep them quiet. My relatives in Yorkshire have indicated that the the incentive payment was around £500000 if United went up (which they did) and on top of that there were his wages, probably more than £20000 a week, which were paid in full. A loan fee was also paid but that figure has never been released. Warnock stated that the deal was financially lucrative for City. My issue with TLG is that he has always ridiculed that we got anything for Madine and will continue to do so. I have never stated that we got £6m loan fee for Madine but I do feel that his original transfer fee was good value, bearing in mind he helped us get up in 2018 and at the time we were in desperate need of a striker and £6m was the going rate in the January window.

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Probably feels the need to get involved because over the years since and the multiple times it's come up you've never actually proven it and often slope off hoping it falls off the page... Until it pops back up again and you still can't prove it.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Not quite sure why you feel the need to get involved but anyway I have already provided the link, as above, where Warnock clearly states the financial situation relating to Madine’s loan move which includes incentives relating to the deal. The full figures were ‘undisclosed’ presumably because both clubs wanted to keep them quiet. My relatives in Yorkshire have indicated that the the incentive payment was around £500000 if United went up (which they did) and on top of that there were his wages, probably more than £20000 a week, which were paid in full. A loan fee was also paid but that figure has never been released. Warnock stated that the deal was financially lucrative for City. My issue with TLG is that he has always ridiculed that we got anything for Madine and will continue to do so. I have never stated that we got £6m loan fee for Madine but I do feel that his original transfer fee was good value, bearing in mind he helped us get up in 2018 and at the time we were in desperate need of a striker and £6m was the going rate in the January window.

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As the man who spent all of that money on someone who turned out to be a dud st City, Warnock would try to make the terms Madine went to Sheffield United under sound as attractive as possible wouldn’t he.

Your last sentence rather says it all about the way you come at things. If some other Championship side had paid £6 million for a striker who never scored a goal in the twenty six appearances (and that’s only league matches) he made for them and missed a penalty in a top of the table game with the eventual Champions, you wouldn’t be saying “ah, but he got an assist at Sheffield United” about him, you’d be laying into the player and the team daft enough to pay all that money for him.

The only way Gary Madine’s signing represented “good value” is if you truly believe we wouldn’t have gone up if we hadn’t signed him - apart from that one, valuable, assist at Bramell Lane, Madine contributed nothing towards our promotion.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

My issue with TLG is that he has always ridiculed that we got anything for Madine and will continue to do so.

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Not quite. I have always ridiculed your claim that City got a ‘large loan fee’ for Gary Madine that you have previously suggested was well in excess of £1 million.

I note you are now stating the loan fee figure (should one exist) has never been released, which differs somewhat from your previous claims

Fair play to dml here.

He seems to have knowledge of a loan fee for Madine that the press (or anybody else) couldn't get hold of, knows that 50% of Josh Murphy's wages are being paid by Preston and his relatives know exactly how much the bonus was that Sheffield United paid.

Hats off to the lad. He's got his finger on the pulse.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Fair play to dml here.

He seems to have knowledge of a loan fee for Madine that the press (or anybody else) couldn't get hold of, knows that 50% of Josh Murphy's wages are being paid by Preston and his relatives know exactly how much the bonus was that Sheffield United paid.

Hats off to the lad. He's got his finger on the pulse.

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:hehe:

I'm quite happy to see him loaned out as his patchy form could easily be at least emulated by one of the youngsters Harris, Colwill even Taz Mayembe.

It's so satisfying seeing youngsters progressing and getting game time. I also don't think there's a magic formulae to some of the clubs known to be a hot bed of producing youngsters - I think circumstance and finances forced them to play them - and that's the only way they are going to improve - getting first team football with better more experienced pros.

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Originally Posted by PhyllisStant

I'm quite happy to see him loaned out as his patchy form could easily be at least emulated by one of the youngsters Harris, Colwill even Taz Mayembe.

It's so satisfying seeing youngsters progressing and getting game time. I also don't think there's a magic formulae to some of the clubs known to be a hot bed of producing youngsters - I think circumstance and finances forced them to play them - and that's the only way they are going to improve - getting first team football with better more experienced pros.

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Absolutely , and if this means a year or two as just a top 10 side whilst they progress surely that is the best route for us in these challenging times .

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Originally Posted by Rjk

of course it was a terrible buy, it was obvious at the time. an awful signing.
comfortably the worst purchase we've ever made which is saying something

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Semantics I know but!

I don't think he was a terrible buy - I think it was a terrible deal

I think on paper it was a good signing if it was circa £0.5-1m. I think he showed some glimpses of what he could do at times and did suit us at that time

There's a difference. The terrible buys are ones that;

a) were never going to play
b) never fitted into a style

There are a handful of bad buys but hell of a lot more of bad deals

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

As the man who spent all of that money on someone who turned out to be a dud st City, Warnock would try to make the terms Madine went to Sheffield United under sound as attractive as possible wouldn’t he.

Your last sentence rather says it all about the way you come at things. If some other Championship side had paid £6 million for a striker who never scored a goal in the twenty six appearances (and that’s only league matches) he made for them and missed a penalty in a top of the table game with the eventual Champions, you wouldn’t be saying “ah, but he got an assist at Sheffield United” about him, you’d be laying into the player and the team daft enough to pay all that money for him.

The only way Gary Madine’s signing represented “good value” is if you truly believe we wouldn’t have gone up if we hadn’t signed him - apart from that one, valuable, assist at Bramell Lane, Madine contributed nothing towards our promotion.

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By getting promotion to the Premier League, our turnover went up from £34m to £122m. The total paid out by Warnock in transfers to get there, including Madine, was about £10.5m. If that isn't good value for money, I don't know what is. Madine played in 13 games in the promotion run in and therefore contributed fully including ‘that’ assist. To just state that is all he did is plain nonsense. The penalty he ‘missed’ against Wolves was actually saved by the keeper (Hoilett missed his but no one ever mentions that). We still went up anyway. At the time we signed Madine, we had no fit strikers and Bolton didn't want to sell, so we had to pay an inflated fee, which is standard for the January window. Sam Vokes went from Burnley to Stoke for £9m in the same window for gods sake. Accusing Warnock of lying about the loan terms is silly as well.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

By getting promotion to the Premier League, our turnover went up from £34m to £122m. The total paid out by Warnock in transfers to get there, including Madine, was about £10.5m. If that isn't good value for money, I don't know what is. Madine played in 13 games in the promotion run in and therefore contributed fully including ‘that’ assist. To just state that is all he did is plain nonsense. The penalty he ‘missed’ against Wolves was actually saved by the keeper (Hoilett missed his but no one ever mentions that). We still went up anyway. At the time we signed Madine, we had no fit strikers and Bolton didn't want to sell, so we had to pay an inflated fee, which is standard for the January window. Sam Vokes went from Burnley to Stoke for £9m in the same window for gods sake. Accusing Warnock of lying about the loan terms is silly as well.

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Tend to agree with inflated fees

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Fair play to dml here.

He seems to have knowledge of a loan fee for Madine that the press (or anybody else) couldn't get hold of, knows that 50% of Josh Murphy's wages are being paid by Preston and his relatives know exactly how much the bonus was that Sheffield United paid.

Hats off to the lad. He's got his finger on the pulse.

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Preston paying 50% of Murphy's wages has been released elsewhere and discussed. The link confirming money changed hands for Madine’s loan has already been released. My relatives are season ticket holders at Sheffield United and their manager confirmed the incentivised promotion bonus that Warnock referred to. Wind your neck in.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Not quite. I have always ridiculed your claim that City got a ‘large loan fee’ for Gary Madine that you have previously suggested was well in excess of £1 million.

I note you are now stating the loan fee figure (should one exist) has never been released, which differs somewhat from your previous claims

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So you are now finally admitting that Sheffield United paid fees and full wages to City for Madine’s loan. Thats progress anyway, having previously stated on numerous occasions that we didn't get anything. How much do you think they paid in promotion incentive then - £50, £100 ? You asked for a link and I gave you one. Now you are floundering around trying to save face.