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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Did you see ANY of the 20 goals he scored last season or all five of this seasons ? Doesn't sound like it to me. He is also our top scorer this season so far.
yes I have seen him I'm a long standing season ticket holder who attends , I still think he is overrated and his body language is different these days when he is on the pitch that is , I think he is not called out more because he plays for Wales .
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
I think it would be a big loss.
We are so much better when he plays, occasionally makes goals from nothing. I don't think he's been disinterested at all this season, a little unfortunate with injuries and illness and clearly we don't make as many chances as in seasons gone by, but he would be a huge loss for me.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
yes I have seen him I'm a long standing season ticket holder who attends , I still think he is overrated and his body language is different these days when he is on the pitch that is , I think he is not called out more because he plays for Wales .
:thumbup:
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Kieffer leaving and no adequate replacement and we are in serious trouble. (If we arent anyway)
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
We are so much better when he plays, occasionally makes goals from nothing.
I don’t think either of those claims are true. Moore has started 10 of City’s 13 Championship defeats this season and appeared as a sub in the other three.
As regards scoring goals out of nothing, he’s a striker who very rarely does that.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Aside from a striker - we're crying out for creativity so maybe a playmaker rather than a striker, Scot Twine would be worth a look I reckon. He's 22 can play centre mid through to striker and has 11 goals and 8 assists for MK Dons this season.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
First name on the teamsheet for me.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PhyllisStant
Aside from a striker - we're crying out for creativity so maybe a playmaker rather than a striker, Scot Twine would be worth a look I reckon. He's 22 can play centre mid through to striker and has 11 goals and 8 assists for MK Dons this season.
He'd definitely pull a few strings in midfield.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
I don’t think either of those claims are true. Moore has started 10 of City’s 13 Championship defeats this season and appeared as a sub in the other three.
Very astute observation, there. The substitute appearances are worth a second glance, too.
West Brom (h) - 2-0 down when Moore came on. Lost 4-0.
Middlesbrough (h) - 1-0 down when Moore came on. Lost 2-0.
Sheff Utd (h) - 1-1 when Moore came on. Lost 3-2.
His other 3 substitute appearances were as follows:
Barnsley (h) - 1-1 when Moore came on. Finished 1-1
Blackpool (a) - 1-0 up when Moore came on. Won 2-0, Moore scored.
Peterborough (a) - 2-0 down when Moore came on. Drew 2-2.
It would suggest his substitute appearances have rarely amounted to much. The Peterborough recovery was as much down to their manager taking off their two most dangerous attackers and Flint being able to head in a couple of goals.
On the two occasions where Moore hasn't been a part of the squad, we've won (at Preston) and drawn (with West Brom).
Are we so much better when Moore plays, as Rjk claims? I don't see it. Statistically there's little to back it up, either.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
He'd definitely pull a few strings in midfield.
He'd tie them up in knots
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Very astute observation, there. The substitute appearances are worth a second glance, too.
West Brom (h) - 2-0 down when Moore came on. Lost 4-0.
Middlesbrough (h) - 1-0 down when Moore came on. Lost 2-0.
Sheff Utd (h) - 1-1 when Moore came on. Lost 3-2.
His other 3 substitute appearances were as follows:
Barnsley (h) - 1-1 when Moore came on. Finished 1-1
Blackpool (a) - 1-0 up when Moore came on. Won 2-0, Moore scored.
Peterborough (a) - 2-0 down when Moore came on. Drew 2-2.
It would suggest his substitute appearances have rarely amounted to much. The Peterborough recovery was as much down to their manager taking off their two most dangerous attackers and Flint being able to head in a couple of goals.
On the two occasions where Moore hasn't been a part of the squad, we've won (at Preston) and drawn (with West Brom).
Are we so much better when Moore plays, as Rjk claims? I don't see it. Statistically there's little to back it up, either.
yeah it doesn't seem to stack up with the results, I'm just going on what I've seen this season.
if I was an opposition manager I'd certainly prefer to see Collins or Harris lining up instead of Moore
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
City wins this season:
Blackpool 0-2 Cardiff. Moore started on the bench, settled it with a header.
Cardiff 3-1 Milwall. Moore started and played 90 minutes.
Forest 1-2 Cardiff. Moore came on after 56 mins at 1-0 down. Colwill scores 2. Moore gets both assists and hits the post.
Cardiff 2-1 Huddersfield. Moore scores both
Preston 1-2 Cardiff. Moore didn't play.
Luton 1-2 Cardiff. Moore played the full 90.
God, it's been a crap season. Moore at his best, is not only our best player but our most important one. Sadly, this season, that has been rare! I still think the above shows he's pretty important, we've won 1 game without him.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
As someone pointed out were good when he is at his best ?? For me I think the best maybe a thing of the past due to not getting a transfer to Wolves and his alleged non vaccine approach which certainly curtailes his appearances ??
🤔
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
City wins this season:
Blackpool 0-2 Cardiff. Moore started on the bench, settled it with a header.
Cardiff 3-1 Milwall. Moore started and played 90 minutes.
Forest 1-2 Cardiff. Moore came on after 56 mins at 1-0 down. Colwill scores 2. Moore gets both assists and hits the post.
Cardiff 2-1 Huddersfield. Moore scores both
Preston 1-2 Cardiff. Moore didn't play.
Luton 1-2 Cardiff. Moore played the full 90.
God, it's been a crap season. Moore at his best, is not only our best player but our most important one. Sadly, this season, that has been rare! I still think the above shows he's pretty important, we've won 1 game without him.
No way Pedro. He's played 15 times this season which means he's been on the losing side 10 times and not on the park for 1 of our 6 wins and no assists or a goal for 1 of them (the Millwall match where Flint scored 2).
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Perhaps someone can help me out. Moore's xG and xA are both down but they were only 6.55 & 2.76 respectively. That seems low anyway. What am I missing? Rjk?
Source: infogol
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citizen's Nephew
Perhaps someone can help me out. Moore's xG and xA are both down but they were only 6.55 & 2.76 respectively. That seems low anyway. What am I missing? Rjk?
Source: infogol
To be fair we have no wingers and no pace so there is zero service for a 6 foot 5 inch centre forward
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DubaiDai
To be fair we have no wingers and no pace so there is zero service for a 6 foot 5 inch centre forward
Yup, I'm not saying he's not been hard done with our squad this season. I feel we would have been better with a poacher this season as there have been a lot of chances for that kind of striker, even with our crap season. That's just an opinion as I don't have anything other than my memory of matches to back that up.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
Moore at his best, is not only our best player but our most important one. Sadly, this season, that has been rare!
At his best - that's the key issue. From what I've seen (which has been plenty), Moore's normally been some way short of his best in a City shirt this season. He's missed some sitters, he's looked well off the pace at times and he's also seemed to have become more fragile - not only being unfit, but going to ground more often and more easily. There could be any number of reasons for that, but he isn't looking the player he was last season, that's for sure.
Picking up on something Rjk said earlier, Moore has never struck me as the kind of player who creates goals out of nothing. Strikers like Earnshaw, Bothroyd and Chopra used to do that for City with reasonable frequency, but Moore seems to very much depend on decent service. He hasn't been getting too much of that this season, but as I said above he has missed a good number of straightforward chances. Five goals after 24 games is a poor return and it's not just down to a lack of service.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
At his best - that's the key issue. From what I've seen (which has been plenty), Moore's normally been some way short of his best in a City shirt this season. He's missed some sitters, he's looked well off the pace at times and he's also seemed to have become more fragile - not only being unfit, but going to ground more often and more easily. There could be any number of reasons for that, but he isn't looking the player he was last season, that's for sure.
Picking up on something Rjk said earlier, Moore has never struck me as the kind of player who creates goals out of nothing. Strikers like Earnshaw, Bothroyd and Chopra used to do that for City with reasonable frequency, but Moore seems to very much depend on decent service. He hasn't been getting too much of that this season, but as I said above he has missed a good number of straightforward chances. Five goals after 24 games is a poor return and it's not just down to a lack of service.
Good summary.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
At his best - that's the key issue. From what I've seen (which has been plenty), Moore's normally been some way short of his best in a City shirt this season. He's missed some sitters, he's looked well off the pace at times and he's also seemed to have become more fragile - not only being unfit, but going to ground more often and more easily. There could be any number of reasons for that, but he isn't looking the player he was last season, that's for sure.
Picking up on something Rjk said earlier, Moore has never struck me as the kind of player who creates goals out of nothing. Strikers like Earnshaw, Bothroyd and Chopra used to do that for City with reasonable frequency, but Moore seems to very much depend on decent service. He hasn't been getting too much of that this season, but as I said above he has missed a good number of straightforward chances. Five goals after 24 games is a poor return and it's not just down to a lack of service.
No player in the squad has had more attempts on goal and had more attempts on target than Moore this season. He gets more attempts on goal and on target per 90 minutes than anyone else. He's the only player registering a shot on target on average in less than 90 minutes. Only Rubin Colwill has more a lower minutes per goal record than Moore.
However, it's interesting to note that it's taking Moore 9.6 attempts to score a goal and he scores with 25% of his attempts on target. It might not be too surprising to note that McGuinness, Flint and Morrison take less opportunities to score. Rubin Colwill and Mark Harris also need less attempts on goal to score than Moore.
The head to head of Moore of last season and this suggests the same. He's getting virtually the same number of attempts on goal and the same number on target as he did last season. However, last season he scored every 171 minutes; this season it is 300 minutes. He scored every 5.35 shots last season; this season it is 9.6. Just under 2.5 of his on target attempts hit the net last season; this term it is 4.
That would tie in with your observations that he has missed lots of chances, chances he was putting away last season. Statistically that's the only difference.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
No player in the squad has had more attempts on goal and had more attempts on target than Moore this season. He gets more attempts on goal and on target per 90 minutes than anyone else. He's the only player registering a shot on target on average in less than 90 minutes. Only Rubin Colwill has more a lower minutes per goal record than Moore.
However, it's interesting to note that it's taking Moore 9.6 attempts to score a goal and he scores with 25% of his attempts on target. It might not be too surprising to note that McGuinness, Flint and Morrison take less opportunities to score. Rubin Colwill and Mark Harris also need less attempts on goal to score than Moore.
The head to head of Moore of last season and this suggests the same. He's getting virtually the same number of attempts on goal and the same number on target as he did last season. However, last season he scored every 171 minutes; this season it is 300 minutes. He scored every 5.35 shots last season; this season it is 9.6. Just under 2.5 of his on target attempts hit the net last season; this term it is 4.
That would tie in with your observations that he has missed lots of chances, chances he was putting away last season. Statistically that's the only difference.
I know it's unusual to reply to my own reply, but given how many goals our centre backs have scored from corners, it's maybe a surprise that Moore doesn't bag much more from set piece situations.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
At his best - that's the key issue. From what I've seen (which has been plenty), Moore's normally been some way short of his best in a City shirt this season. He's missed some sitters, he's looked well off the pace at times and he's also seemed to have become more fragile - not only being unfit, but going to ground more often and more easily. There could be any number of reasons for that, but he isn't looking the player he was last season, that's for sure.
Picking up on something Rjk said earlier, Moore has never struck me as the kind of player who creates goals out of nothing. Strikers like Earnshaw, Bothroyd and Chopra used to do that for City with reasonable frequency, but Moore seems to very much depend on decent service. He hasn't been getting too much of that this season, but as I said above he has missed a good number of straightforward chances. Five goals after 24 games is a poor return and it's not just down to a lack of service.
This.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DubaiDai
To be fair we have no wingers and no pace so there is zero service for a 6 foot 5 inch centre forward
I was about to say the same thing.
He is really important to us but if we did get a good chunk of money for him it could plug some much needed holes that we otherwise wouldn't be able to.
Let's not forget we've got: Morrison, Flint, Brown, Murphy, Ralls, Vaulks, Vassell, Pack and Smithies out of contract shortly, with at least half probably leaving, and currently looking like no cash to replace them.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60073974
If Traore is valued at £15m by Spurs ,we would be lucky to get £2/3m for Moore
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
he isn't valued at that by wolves though
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWGL1
Moore actually scores and assists regularly though, Traore does that about twice a season
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
He was pictured training today, so fingers crossed he's over his covid and we'll see him Saturday.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Moore scored twenty league goals last season and not too many of them were penalties. Losing Harry Wilson and, to a lesser extent, all of the club’s under performing wingers, has not helped him, but to score that many in a team which has created so little in open play in recent seasons was an outstanding achievement- it’s not so long ago that we were despairing of ever having a twenty goal a season striker again.
So, for me, the ability is still there, but there have to be questions about Moore’s attitude - like a few in this season’s team, I’m not sure that it is effort that is missing, more determination. We’ve fought back impressively from deficits in some away games this season, but heads seem to go down in home games when we fall behind and Moore appears to be as bad as anyone in that regard.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Moore scored twenty league goals last season and not too many of them were penalties. Losing Harry Wilson and, to a lesser extent, all of the club’s under performing wingers, has not helped him, but to score that many in a team which has created so little in open play in recent seasons was an outstanding achievement- it’s not so long ago that we were despairing of ever having a twenty goal a season striker again.
So, for me, the ability is still there, but there have to be questions about Moore’s attitude - like a few in this season’s team, I’m not sure that it is effort that is missing, more determination. We’ve fought back impressively from deficits in some away games this season, but heads seem to go down in home games when we fall behind and Moore appears to be as bad as anyone in that regard.
He’s also been in and out with injury and Covid.
Not sure that he’s played many games at full fitness.
He also seems in his career to have scored goals in bursts, he’s had lots of fairly barren spells.
Maybe that has con in ideas with injury/ fitness issues as again he’s been focal for his last few clubs and I’d expect that he’s often played when ge shouldn’t have due to lack of similar cover, hence why with us Collins was brought in
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lawnmower
He’s also been in and out with injury and Covid.
Not sure that he’s played many games at full fitness.
He also seems in his career to have scored goals in bursts, he’s had lots of fairly barren spells.
Maybe that has con in ideas with injury/ fitness issues as again he’s been focal for his last few clubs and I’d expect that he’s often played when ge shouldn’t have due to lack of similar cover, hence why with us Collins was brought in
He's contributed very little this season, due to the issues you mentioned and our lack of width/crossing...
Interestingly, under Morison, Moore has played very little so we don't really know how he will adapt... saying that we still have set pieces to relay on and Doyle is an exceptional set piece taker who will challenge/share with Ralls for set piece duties. With the two new loan signings and perhaps Giles coming back, Moore needs to have a good second half of the season if we are to avoid relegation.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AfricanBluebird
He's contributed very little this season, due to the issues you mentioned and our lack of width/crossing...
Interestingly, under Morison, Moore has played very little so we don't really know how he will adapt... saying that we still have set pieces to relay on and Doyle is an exceptional set piece taker who will challenge/share with Ralls for set piece duties. With the two new loan signings and perhaps Giles coming back, Moore needs to have a good second half of the season if we are to avoid relegation.
How do you know Doyle is an "exceptional" set piece taker? Do you watch a lot of Man City under 23 games?
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
How do you know Doyle is an "exceptional" set piece taker? Do you watch a lot of Man City under 23 games?
https://youtu.be/oRVnwYGn6aA
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
Wow some beauties in there
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
I seen African on twitter yesterday say he hasn’t seen the YouTube video so I’m just intrigued how he would know the player so well?
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
I seen African on twitter yesterday say he hasn’t seen the YouTube video so I’m just intrigued how he would know the player so well?
Like I mentioned yesterday - his coaches at England and Man City have all said so. Also many Man City fans who watch the U23's have spoken about his ability to keep the ball, move forward and also take great set pieces.
Also like I said yesterday, let's see.
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AFCB?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AFCB</a> transfers (2/3) <br><br>• Kieffer Moore at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CCFC?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CCFC</a> also remains a top target. Two clubs getting closer on valuations. <br><br>Andy Carroll interest is there, but would only surface if Moore pursuit unsuccessful.</p>— Kris Temple (@kristemple) <a href="https://twitter.com/kristemple/status/1485921883275075589?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I don't know how reliable this guy is but Bournemouth fans seem to think he is and they have a thread dedicated to his transfer stories on their website. I wonder what the valuations are if this is true?
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AFCB?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AFCB</a> transfers (2/3) ��<br><br>• Kieffer Moore at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CCFC?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CCFC</a> also remains a top target. Two clubs getting closer on valuations. <br><br>Andy Carroll interest is there, but would only surface if Moore pursuit unsuccessful.</p>— Kris Temple (@kristemple) <a href="https://twitter.com/kristemple/status/1485921883275075589?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I don't know how reliable this guy is but Bournemouth fans seem to think he is and they have a thread dedicated to his transfer stories on their website. I wonder what the valuations are if this is true?
https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/ca...pionship-club/
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
would we go in for tom Lawrence if he goes I wonder
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
would we go in for tom Lawrence if he goes I wonder
Would Lawrence even want to come here? Especially if there's interest from clubs higher up
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Re: if Kieffer moore leaves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
City123
Would Lawrence even want to come here? Especially if there's interest from clubs higher up
who then? or would we just try to go with what we've got?