-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
People may have stopped falling for it, but Johnson was Johnson from beginning to end.
Precisely. As is often the case in life, the ability to ascend to a position does not always correlate with the ability to perform effectively in that position - and it is often the case with 'populist' candidates.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Precisely. As is often the case in life, the ability to ascend to a position does not always correlate with the ability to perform effectively in that position - and it is often the case with 'populist' candidates.
The Peter Principle.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I don't think the Tories will miss Johnson now because he ceased to be Johnson. He became a damaged brand. I do think that parties need a variety of different types of politician, and a 'Johnson-type', ie broadly jovial, friendly, un-PC, shoots from the hip, imperfect, gets things done, blah de blah does have a role to play and we will miss that character, but I think his brand was trashed, not entirely fairly IMO, but thats how it is.
Will be interesting to see what kind of cabinet the new leader builds, because someone fitting that role is useful, and key to retaining some of the appeal Johnson offered. In terms of the critique of identity politics, Kemi Badenoch does offer some of that, and it will be interesting to see generally white, generally middle class, left wingers get their heads in a spin being confused at the identity game they helped to create.
No party needs a Johnson type.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
No party needs a Johnson type.
Well great swathes of the popultion would say they are tired of politicians who aren't themselves, have little personality and are afraid to say it 'as they see it', so I do think there is a need for that type of politician tbh, but certainly they won't appeal to everyone.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Well great swathes of the popultion would say they are tired of politicians who aren't themselves, have little personality and are afraid to say it 'as they see it', so I do think there is a need for that type of politician tbh, but certainly they won't appeal to everyone.
The man who "says it like he sees it"
The man who famously prepared a leave and remain article in the telegraph shortly before deciding to back leave.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Well great swathes of the popultion would say they are tired of politicians who aren't themselves, have little personality and are afraid to say it 'as they see it', so I do think there is a need for that type of politician tbh, but certainly they won't appeal to everyone.
Whatever you say, Boris is a compulsive liar and is a man of limited ethics. He has a history of deceit and not being a team player. I don't think there is a 'need' for that type of politician.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
The man who "says it like he sees it"
The man who famously prepared a leave and remain article in the telegraph shortly before deciding to back leave.
Nothing wrong with that IMO. I could write an essay on the benefits of leaving or remaining in the EU.
I'm not talking about Boris Johnson himself. I've said his time has passed - I'm saying that successful parties have a range of personality types to appeal to different people. Boris Johnson has a style that appealed to people to many - many are also attracted to (for example) Angela Rayner or John Prescott or even Jeremy Corbyn for the same reason.
You pack a party full of dull technocrats and see how well it does..
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Nothing wrong with that IMO. I could write an essay on the benefits of leaving or remaining in the EU.
I'm not talking about Boris Johnson himself. I've said his time has passed - I'm saying that successful parties have a range of personality types to appeal to different people. Boris Johnson has a style that appealed to people to many - many are also attracted to (for example) Angela Rayner or John Prescott or even Jeremy Corbyn for the same reason.
You pack a party full of dull technocrats and see how well it does..
I guess there's subtlety and nuance about those two 'essays' that you haven't picked up on, which surprises me as you're proud of having those traits.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Well great swathes of the popultion would say they are tired of politicians who aren't themselves, have little personality and are afraid to say it 'as they see it', so I do think there is a need for that type of politician tbh, but certainly they won't appeal to everyone.
Johnson wasn’t that type of politician, besides all of his moral faults, he was also widely regarded to just go along with what the last person who spoke to him on any given subject thought - the man has never ever made me laugh and, as far as I can see, his strong point, campaigning, consisted of nothing more than him going around wearing daft clothes, giving a thumbs up sign and gurning. I’m prepared to admit that my complete disregard for the man probably means that I don’t recognise that he is an effective campaigner, but, apart from that, he’s a man with very few political skills - we’ve just lived through a real life version of the Emperor’s New Clothes.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Johnson wasn’t that type of politician, besides all of his moral faults, he was also widely regarded to just go along with what the last person who spoke to him on any given subject thought - the man has never ever made me laugh and, as far as I can see, his strong point, campaigning, consisted of nothing more than him going around wearing daft clothes, giving a thumbs up sign and gurning. I’m prepared to admit that my complete disregard for the man probably means that I don’t recognise that he is an effective campaigner, but, apart from that, he’s a man with very few political skills - we’ve just lived through a real life version of the Emperor’s New Clothes.
He was the creation of the opposition and another populist , you could argue one populist created the other , or vis versa ,either way they are the same if you strip out the left and right argument the article below from a left leaning paper is well crafted .
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-democracy-mps
The campaign to re-elect Corbyn is populist to its core. It is based on the absoluteness of the “democratic mandate” given by Labour members and supporters, which renders null and void any dissent from Labour’s “elites” in Westminster or Brussels. It means that Corbyn does not even need the support of the MPs he is supposed to be leading in the House of Commons. To do anything other than “get behind the leader” is to thwart the will of Labour’s people. Corbyn warmly talks of “reaching out”, but those who take his hand must be willing to be led by it.
This is populism in its purest form, with the people as the final and best judges. Its simplistic purity obscures the complex messiness of real political problems, the greatest of which is that an effective opposition leader needs to command the support of the party in parliament. Corbyn’s supporters do not entertain the possibility that those who dedicate their lives to serving their party and the country might have good reason to believe their man is not up to the job. Rejection of Corbyn is taken as proof that they are traitors, to be replaced by people who will do what their electorate tells them without daring to question its judgment. The party members and supporters are always right, so any of its MPs who disagree must be wrong.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
I guess there's subtlety and nuance about those two 'essays' that you haven't picked up on, which surprises me as you're proud of having those traits.
I'm genuinely not sure what you mean. It's not uncommon to draw up a list (or an essay if you like) on the pro's and con's of two things to help make a decision though
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Johnson wasn’t that type of politician, besides all of his moral faults, he was also widely regarded to just go along with what the last person who spoke to him on any given subject thought - the man has never ever made me laugh and, as far as I can see, his strong point, campaigning, consisted of nothing more than him going around wearing daft clothes, giving a thumbs up sign and gurning. I’m prepared to admit that my complete disregard for the man probably means that I don’t recognise that he is an effective campaigner, but, apart from that, he’s a man with very few political skills - we’ve just lived through a real life version of the Emperor’s New Clothes.
Like I said, they won't appeal to everyone, but to a large part of the population his style is/was appealing, and parties would be wise to remember that.
He clearly has more of a personality than many politicians, and many people find that appealing.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Oooh BBC thinks the same :
Whoever wins the race to be the next prime minister, it will have been the most diverse major party leadership contest in UK history. What does this tell us about British politics?
Four of the eight Conservative MPs who made it through to the first round of voting are women, and four - Rishi Sunak, Nadhim Zahawi, Suella Braverman and Kemi Badenoch - are from ethnic minority backgrounds. Mr Zahawi was voted out in the first round, along with Jeremy Hunt.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62150063
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I'm genuinely not sure what you mean. It's not uncommon to draw up a list (or an essay if you like) on the pro's and con's of two things to help make a decision though
It was hardly a list of pros and cons. It was a full article, ready for publication in the Times, just a few weeks before he became the figurehead for the Vote Leave campaign.
Is that someone who says it as he sees it?
It's not difficult to think of more examples of him lying, changing a story, and doing anything but 'say it as he sees it' (which is a phrase used for people who speak blunt truths).
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
He was the creation of the opposition and another populist , you could argue one populist created the other , or vis versa ,either way they are the same if you strip out the left and right argument the article below from a left leaning paper is well crafted .
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-democracy-mps
The campaign to re-elect Corbyn is populist to its core. It is based on the absoluteness of the “democratic mandate” given by Labour members and supporters, which renders null and void any dissent from Labour’s “elites” in Westminster or Brussels. It means that Corbyn does not even need the support of the MPs he is supposed to be leading in the House of Commons. To do anything other than “get behind the leader” is to thwart the will of Labour’s people. Corbyn warmly talks of “reaching out”, but those who take his hand must be willing to be led by it.
This is populism in its purest form, with the people as the final and best judges. Its simplistic purity obscures the complex messiness of real political problems, the greatest of which is that an effective opposition leader needs to command the support of the party in parliament. Corbyn’s supporters do not entertain the possibility that those who dedicate their lives to serving their party and the country might have good reason to believe their man is not up to the job. Rejection of Corbyn is taken as proof that they are traitors, to be replaced by people who will do what their electorate tells them without daring to question its judgment. The party members and supporters are always right, so any of its MPs who disagree must be wrong.
"He was a creation of the opposition" - really?
The bloke who wrote this had Johnson down to a tee when this was written more than forty years in his school report;-
"Boris really has adopted a disgracefully cavalier attitude to his classical studies. [He] sometimes seems affronted when criticised for what amounts to a gross failure of responsibility (and surprised at the same time that he was not appointed Captain of the school for the next half).
"I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception, one who should be free of the network of obligation that binds everyone else."
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
"He was a creation of the opposition" - really?
The bloke who wrote this had Johnson down to a tee when this was written more than forty years in his school report;-
"Boris really has adopted a disgracefully cavalier attitude to his classical studies. [He] sometimes seems affronted when criticised for what amounts to a gross failure of responsibility (and surprised at the same time that he was not appointed Captain of the school for the next half).
"I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception, one who should be free of the network of obligation that binds everyone else."
LoM thinks that Boris is about 4 years old.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
"He was a creation of the opposition" - really?
The bloke who wrote this had Johnson down to a tee when this was written more than forty years in his school report;-
"Boris really has adopted a disgracefully cavalier attitude to his classical studies. [He] sometimes seems affronted when criticised for what amounts to a gross failure of responsibility (and surprised at the same time that he was not appointed Captain of the school for the next half).
"I think he honestly believes that it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception, one who should be free of the network of obligation that binds everyone else."
I know you don't like him, but, in terms of responsibility:
He did see us through Covid.
He did ultimately (and finally) fulfil the Brexit referendum.
He is generally acknowledged to have done very well in terms of support for Ukraine
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/boris...nation-1729581
Obviously this is balanced against numerous reasons to not like him, but I think we need to accept a bit of balance here. I hear a lot of (generally on twitter) rather extravagant critiques of him as the worst politician / PM of all time etc. I'm not really sure that's true. A lot of people seem to have these rather extreme proclamations about every prime minister..
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I know you don't like him, but, in terms of responsibility:
He did see us through Covid.
He did ultimately (and finally) fulfil the Brexit referendum.
He is generally acknowledged to have done very well in terms of support for Ukraine
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/boris...nation-1729581
Obviously this is balanced against numerous reasons to not like him, but I think we need to accept a bit of balance here. I hear a lot of (generally on twitter) rather extravagant critiques of him as the worst politician / PM of all time etc. I'm not really sure that's true. A lot of people seem to have these rather extreme proclamations about every prime minister..
You always claim to have a balanced view but you do seem to lean towards the present government as a default. I may be deluding myself but in decades of following politics this regime seems the most cankerous I can remember - and I am not 'of the left'.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I know you don't like him, but, in terms of responsibility:
He did see us through Covid.
He did ultimately (and finally) fulfil the Brexit referendum.
He is generally acknowledged to have done very well in terms of support for Ukraine
https://inews.co.uk/news/world/boris...nation-1729581
Obviously this is balanced against numerous reasons to not like him, but I think we need to accept a bit of balance here. I hear a lot of (generally on twitter) rather extravagant critiques of him as the worst politician / PM of all time etc. I'm not really sure that's true. A lot of people seem to have these rather extreme proclamations about every prime minister..
What was he supposed to do with Covid? Walk away from it? As for Brexit, the man wants to rip up his “oven ready deal”. His own party, not the electorate, have just kicked him out :facepalm:
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
You stick to your guns mate :thumbup:
And you stick to yours i suppose
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
When has it ever been the best man or woman for the job?!
But also assuming that that is the case, I'm sorry to ruin your attempt at a gotcha but I didn't say our leader, I said our leadership, which means that the people in charge should be from a diverse mix of backgrounds, so it's a good thing that the group of people in charge from which the leader will be picked from is diverse. You obviously think that 8 white men would be better but you're just filled with anger, resentment and prejudice so who cares
Politics is cut throat. It's always been the best man for the job. I'm still confused as to whether you want the best people possible or less suitable people who fit strict racial quotas. I think you want the latter but you're afraid to come out and explicitly say it. Fear of ridicule maybe lol
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Politics is cut throat. It's always been the chosen puppet for the job
Spot on :thumbup:
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
The Peter Principle.
Is that similar to the Lardy & Cyril Principle?
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Politics is cut throat. It's always been the best man for the job. I'm still confused as to whether you want the best people possible or less suitable people who fit strict racial quotas. I think you want the latter but you're afraid to come out and explicitly say it. Fear of ridicule maybe lol
It's quite simple really - I think that to find the best person possible you need to pick from a diverse pool of applicants, not just a bunch of white men. Sometimes the best person will be a white man, a lot of the time it won't be. Traditionally we've never been able to find out because women/people of colour etc have never had a look in.
I'm not remotely surprised that a Tommy Robinson fanboy would find that idea distasteful and even less surprised that a grown man who says lol finds is easily confused :thumbup:
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
She is probably a good actress and reading from a script, but Kemi seems like the best option to me.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
It's quite simple really - I think that to find the best person possible you need to pick from a diverse pool of applicants, not just a bunch of white men. Sometimes the best person will be a white man, a lot of the time it won't be. Traditionally we've never been able to find out because women/people of colour etc have never had a look in.
I'm not remotely surprised that a Tommy Robinson fanboy would find that idea distasteful and even less surprised that a grown man who says lol finds is easily confused :thumbup:
"Sometimes the best will be a white guy. A *lot* of the time it won't be". *Sometimes* versus *a lot*
You seem to be suggesting that "white men" are somehow handicap. Can you explain why delmbox? Cheers
And what do fully mature, real men use to espress laughter on here? The trite yellow smiley? Lolz
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
"Sometimes the best will be a white guy. A *lot* of the time it won't be". *Sometimes* versus *a lot*
You seem to be suggesting that "white men" are somehow handicap. Can you explain why delmbox? Cheers
And what do fully mature, real men use to espress laughter on here? The trite yellow smiley? Lolz
I'm waiting for his analysis of African and Asian countries.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I'm waiting for his analysis of African and Asian countries.
I've given up asking him, he disapears for a while then reappears all fresh with another terrible take.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Spot on :thumbup:
So true
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
"Sometimes the best will be a white guy. A *lot* of the time it won't be". *Sometimes* versus *a lot*
You seem to be suggesting that "white men" are somehow handicap. Can you explain why delmbox? Cheers
And what do fully mature, real men use to espress laughter on here? The trite yellow smiley? Lolz
Fair point.
Best idea is to quit the adherence to identity politics. It's a grim road to a grim place. Tories are far less obsessed with it, and look at the result - A great range of candidates for leader who everyone knows is there with zero quotas required.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
"Sometimes the best will be a white guy. A *lot* of the time it won't be". *Sometimes* versus *a lot*
You seem to be suggesting that "white men" are somehow handicap. Can you explain why delmbox? Cheers
And what do fully mature, real men use to espress laughter on here? The trite yellow smiley? Lolz
Yeah sure. When you add up all the non white men, white women and non white women in the UK it comes to more people than white men. Therefore I would assume that sometimes the best person for a job will be a white man, a lot of the times it won't be because there's a wider pool of talent to choose from. I'm not a statistics expert though so maybe that mathematical assumption is wrong :shrug:
Fundamentally I just think a leadership's diversity should be reflective of a country's diversity so everybody can feel represented. Throughout history white men have never had an issue with that but now that society is changing so that voices other than theirs are heard certain people just can't handle it - you see it in from who the new PM will be down to women's football being given publicity. Reminds me of that quote "When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"
That's my opinion, like it or lump it I couldn't honestly care less and I'm sure the feeling's mutual. Have a lovely day
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Yeah sure. When you add up all the non white men, white women and non white women in the UK it comes to more people than white men. Therefore I would assume that sometimes the best person for a job will be a white man, a lot of the times it won't be because there's a wider pool of talent to choose from. I'm not a statistics expert though so maybe that mathematical assumption is wrong :shrug:
Fundamentally I just think a leadership's diversity should be reflective of a country's diversity so everybody can feel represented. Throughout history white men have never had an issue with that but now that society is changing so that voices other than theirs are heard certain people just can't handle it - you see it in from who the new PM will be down to women's football being given publicity. Reminds me of that quote "When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"
That's my opinion, like it or lump it I couldn't honestly care less and I'm sure the feeling's mutual. Have a lovely day
I must admit I'd never heard the expression you quoted before; I will Google it to find out more about its origin. However I think it brilliant and it succinctly encapsulates the source of much of humanity's problems. Thanks for that.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Yeah sure. When you add up all the non white men, white women and non white women in the UK it comes to more people than white men. Therefore I would assume that sometimes the best person for a job will be a white man, a lot of the times it won't be because there's a wider pool of talent to choose from. I'm not a statistics expert though so maybe that mathematical assumption is wrong :shrug:
Fundamentally I just think a leadership's diversity should be reflective of a country's diversity so everybody can feel represented. Throughout history white men have never had an issue with that but now that society is changing so that voices other than theirs are heard certain people just can't handle it - you see it in from who the new PM will be down to women's football being given publicity. Reminds me of that quote "When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"
That's my opinion, like it or lump it I couldn't honestly care less and I'm sure the feeling's mutual. Have a lovely day
You are getting stranger by the week, and I am absolutely loving it. Keep up the good work :thumbup:
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Yeah sure. When you add up all the non white men, white women and non white women in the UK it comes to more people than white men. Therefore I would assume that sometimes the best person for a job will be a white man, a lot of the times it won't be because there's a wider pool of talent to choose from. I'm not a statistics expert though so maybe that mathematical assumption is wrong :shrug:
Fundamentally I just think a leadership's diversity should be reflective of a country's diversity so everybody can feel represented. Throughout history white men have never had an issue with that but now that society is changing so that voices other than theirs are heard certain people just can't handle it - you see it in from who the new PM will be down to women's football being given publicity. Reminds me of that quote "When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"
That's my opinion, like it or lump it I couldn't honestly care less and I'm sure the feeling's mutual. Have a lovely day
Your assumption is wrong, in parliament White men make up the vast majority. There are plenty of professions where your dreaded "white male" is in the majority. I'm not sure that in the general population are in the small minority either not to the extent to justify your "sometimes" versus "a lot" idea.
" When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" lol
I'm sorry to bust your bubble but nowhere in nature do you get equality and trying to impose eQuAlITy will lead to oppressing people. What do you do about the naturally beautiful? Make them more ugly for equality? What about those with naturally more drive and a higher work ethic? Tax them heavily?
What about those who are naturally more intelligent? Lobotomy? See how mad equality can get...
You are clearly brain washed into despising your own kind by Marxist "Critical Theory" ...i see you as a victim. You've been tricked into thinking that deriding your own kind is somehow enlightened. The modern left is a suicide cult, so finally Delmbox, just for confirmation, You would want to choose your heart surgeon based on racial quotas and not the best man for the job?
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
You are getting stranger by the week, and I am absolutely loving it. Keep up the good work :thumbup:
He is lol
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lither_1927
Your assumption is wrong, in parliament White men make up the vast majority. There are plenty of professions where your dreaded "white male" is in the majority. I'm not sure that in the general population are in the small minority either not to the extent to justify your "sometimes" versus "a lot" idea.
" When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" lol
I'm sorry to bust your bubble but nowhere in nature do you get equality and trying to impose eQuAlITy will lead to oppressing people. What do you do about the naturally beautiful? Make them more ugly for equality? What about those with naturally more drive and a higher work ethic? Tax them heavily?
What about those who are naturally more intelligent? Lobotomy? See how mad equality can get...
You are clearly brain washed into despising your own kind by Marxist "Critical Theory" ...i see you as a victim. You've been tricked into thinking that deriding your own kind is somehow enlightened. The modern left is a suicide cult, so finally Delmbox, just for confirmation, You would want to choose your heart surgeon based on racial quotas and not the best man for the job?
I have two questions:
1) So to confirm, in your own words - white men in the UK are the vast majority in positions of power in Parliament, and in plenty of professions as well. Also there's so many white men in the UK that they're not a small minority even when put against non white men, women, and white women?
2) Since when is a heart surgeon a leadership role in Government?
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
I don't think what Delmobox is saying is unreasonable here. Political parties are there to get elected. They have to offer things to all people, and whilst I strongly object to the idea that we can only identify with someone who 'looks like us', this is unfortunately the case for many. As such, it is important that political parties do reflect the society they wish to serve. For me, that is done via the Tory way of trying to ignore colour and let it rise to the top, as opposed to the more directed way other parties do it, which demonstrably is less successful.
Successful parties are also diverse in every respect. They will contain strong leaders, compassionate politicians, technocrats, jovial people, intellectuals, hard workers, those from Cambridge and those who left school at 16. This was a point I was trying to make yesterday to TOBW that actually Johnson still does have an appeal, and parties do need people like him. It's no use every MP being the same.
I can't stand identity politics, I really do think it's toxic for societies, but recognising that governments need to reflect a society is not toxic, it's common sense.
I also think this is a very good phrase actually: "When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" although I'm no marxist, there's some truth in it. The thing for me is to realise why society is complex and try to solve the issues properly as opposed to adopted a knee jerk "it must be down to racism" response, that i think is very rarely rooted in reality, and thus very unlikely to solve the issue.
I genuinely couldn't care less what race or religion someone is from as long as they are moderate and don't stand on a ticket that people should or shouldn't vote for them based on that characteristic.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I don't think what Delmobox is saying is unreasonable here. Political parties are there to get elected. They have to offer things to all people, and whilst I strongly object to the idea that we can only identify with someone who 'looks like us', this is unfortunately the case for many. As such, it is important that political parties do reflect the society they wish to serve. For me, that is done via the Tory way of trying to ignore colour and let it rise to the top, as opposed to the more directed way other parties do it, which demonstrably is less successful.
Successful parties are also diverse in every respect. They will contain strong leaders, compassionate politicians, technocrats, jovial people, intellectuals, hard workers, those from Cambridge and those who left school at 16. This was a point I was trying to make yesterday to TOBW that actually Johnson still does have an appeal, and parties do need people like him. It's no use every MP being the same.
I can't stand identity politics, I really do think it's toxic for societies, but recognising that governments need to reflect a society is not toxic, it's common sense.
I also think this is a very good phrase actually: "When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" although I'm no marxist, there's some truth in it. The thing for me is to realise why society is complex and try to solve the issues properly as opposed to adopted a knee jerk "it must be down to racism" response, that i think is very rarely rooted in reality, and thus very unlikely to solve the issue.
I genuinely couldn't care less what race or religion someone is from as long as they are moderate and don't stand on a ticket that people should or shouldn't vote for them based on that characteristic.
I nodded along with most of your post until the last paragraph. You want moderate politicians? Yet you are probably the most vocal supporter here of Boris Johnson, who expelled 21 moderate conservative MPs shortly after taking power.
-
Re: Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
I have two questions:
1) So to confirm, in your own words - white men in the UK are the vast majority in positions of power in Parliament, and in plenty of professions as well. Also there's so many white men in the UK that they're not a small minority even when put against non white men, women, and white women?
2) Since when is a heart surgeon a leadership role in Government?
Do you think that you can continue avoiding my questions and not look ridiculous?
1. "white men" are clearly not a minority YET. But for some bizarre reason you seem to want "white men" condemned and marginaled for eQuAlItY.
2) The discussion expanded more broadly. So, are you saying we should choose the best man for heart surgery but NOT nessacarily the best man for prime minister? Lolz
