Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

I'm surprised a Chief Executive gets involved in the degree of detail highlighted by the Inquiry. Normally a Chief Executive of a large Corporation would leave it to one of the specialist Directors to deal with the nitty gritty leaving it to the CEO to sign off what was agreed. Instead Vennells got involved in the day to day stuff and implicated herself totally as a result. Dare I say in some large organisations staff below that level often don't bother the CEO with the detail and keep things away from the CEO but Vennells to her detriment not only involved herself to a high degree but also can't avoid the fact that as CEO she is ultimately responsible for everything that has happened

Given the fact that she has faced some very detailed questioning I don't think she has done that badly but the very fact she was so involved in the detail of everything that went on her level of culpability is such that anyone would struggle to put on a better performance.

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Originally Posted by az city

I'd say you're correct but I'd put it slightly differently - she's either culpable and a knowing liar or she's so stupid she could not see, from the massive amount of evidence she was presented with over multiple years, there was a systematic issue with the prosecutions.

She reminds me of what is so wrong with Britain. She's clearly a member of the establishment (privately educated, Anglican priest, etc) who was appointed to a job that was beyond her capabilities. I met so many "Paulas" during my working life in Britain - the incapable talentless middle-class establishment. I'm so glad I don't meet people like her any more being, as I am, a fully paid up American now. Before anyone starts - I fully acknowledge the myriad issues we have here.

Another thing that strikes me about her is she's supposedly religious yet at no point does her faith seem to compel her to stop all the fibbing and just 'fess up to either her hubristic idiocy and mendacity or complete uncaring foolishness.

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She turned a blind eye and let the bullies deal with the postmasters, and is now sad it's all backfired.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

I'm surprised a Chief Executive gets involved in the degree of detail highlighted by the Inquiry. Normally a Chief Executive of a large Corporation would leave it to one of the specialist Directors to deal with the nitty gritty leaving it to the CEO to sign off what was agreed. Instead Vennells got involved in the day to day stuff and implicated herself totally as a result. Dare I say in some large organisations staff below that level often don't bother the CEO with the detail and keep things away from the CEO but Vennells to her detriment not only involved herself to a high degree but also can't avoid the fact that as CEO she is ultimately responsible for everything that has happened

Given the fact that she has faced some very detailed questioning I don't think she has done that badly but the very fact she was so involved in the detail of everything that went on her level of culpability is such that anyone would struggle to put on a better performance.

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So, what does your typical CEO do exactly to merit these vast sums so many of them earn?

She's a priest too ?

Good god

This guys a bit more aggressive lol

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So, what does your typical CEO do exactly to merit these vast sums so many of them earn?

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Usually bankrupt the company and make you redundant.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

She's a priest too ?

Good god

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Probably why she keeps breaking down in tears the prospect of spending a lot of time in purgatory.

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Originally Posted by MacAdder

Probably why she keeps breaking down in tears the prospect of spending a lot of time in purgatory.

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She's really getting on my tits now

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

She's really getting on my tits now

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Bet yours are bigger than hers ?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Exactly, if she was genuinely unaware of all of the things that were going on, she was probably being paid a fortune to do a job that was well beyond her capabilities.

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Paula Vennells, Post Office chief executive 2010-2019

Ms Vennells earned £5.1m during her time at the helm of the Post Office, peaking at £718,300 in 2018. That year her base salary was £253,800 and she earned £390,800 in bonuses (plus pensions and other benefits).

7 Apr 2024

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-...her%20benefits).

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

She's a priest too ?

Good god

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Was in the running to become the third most powerful/influential person in the Church of England:

In January 2024, BBC News reported that Vennells had been shortlisted to become Bishop of London back in 2017, with two sources stating that the Archbishop of Canterbury himself had pushed her application and was regarded as a supporter of hers.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...e-now-32860486

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Originally Posted by BLUETIT

Bet yours are bigger than hers ?

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That's not in question

This guy is going for the jugular.

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Originally Posted by bobh

This guy is going for the jugular.

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And to be fair the Welsh chair is giving her a chance and trying to ensure it's a due process

I think she's full of it but she's quick on her feet

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So, what does your typical CEO do exactly to merit these vast sums so many of them earn?

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I don't think there is such a thing as a typical CEO job and can only speak from personal experience. In one of my jobs I worked for an organisation with about 3000 employees. Then the person at the top of the pyramid wouldn't have a clue what I was doing or who I was. What that person did is a mystery to me. When I worked for a smaller company with around 50 employees the CEO knew of everything. In the case of the Post Office there were around 60000 employees and I would not therefore have expected a CEO to get involved with the nitty gritty. That was the point I was making to reinforce my conclusion that Vennells was doubly culpable even though I think my minority opinion that she is putting up a reasonable defence of her untenable situation remains.

Perhaps you have a different experience although I fully expect you to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

I don't think there is such a thing as a typical CEO job and can only speak from personal experience. In one of my jobs I worked for an organisation with about 3000 employees. Then the person at the top of the pyramid wouldn't have a clue what I was doing or who I was. What that person did is a mystery to me. When I worked for a smaller company with around 50 employees the CEO knew of everything. In the case of the Post Office there were around 60000 employees and I would not therefore have expected a CEO to get involved with the nitty gritty. That was the point I was making to reinforce my conclusion that Vennells was doubly culpable even though I think my minority opinion that she is putting up a reasonable defence of her untenable situation remains.

Perhaps you have a different experience although I fully expect you to disagree.

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She's quick on her feet

Is this enquiry able to lead to prosecutions ?

She's seems completely incompetent but is doing a good job of defending herself

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So, what does your typical CEO do exactly to merit these vast sums so many of them earn?

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There's always going to be a better pay renumeration in the private sector

It's worrying when ceo of Caerphilly Council is alleged to be on 200k

Mind , the mental health charity also pay stonking amounts to the executives

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Paula Vennells, Post Office chief executive 2010-2019

Ms Vennells earned £5.1m during her time at the helm of the Post Office, peaking at £718,300 in 2018. That year her base salary was £253,800 and she earned £390,800 in bonuses (plus pensions and other benefits).

7 Apr 2024

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-...her%20benefits).

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Let’s start a Go Fund me page. It’s only fair.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

I don't think there is such a thing as a typical CEO job and can only speak from personal experience. In one of my jobs I worked for an organisation with about 3000 employees. Then the person at the top of the pyramid wouldn't have a clue what I was doing or who I was. What that person did is a mystery to me. When I worked for a smaller company with around 50 employees the CEO knew of everything. In the case of the Post Office there were around 60000 employees and I would not therefore have expected a CEO to get involved with the nitty gritty. That was the point I was making to reinforce my conclusion that Vennells was doubly culpable even though I think my minority opinion that she is putting up a reasonable defence of her untenable situation remains.

Perhaps you have a different experience although I fully expect you to disagree.

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Don’t think the Horizon software problems, the prosecuting of sub-postmasters could be described as the “nitty gritty”. She was in all probability completely aware of what was going on..

The nitty gritty to which I was referring was to do with the fact she was arranging meetings, deciding who should attend and the fact she took ownership of some of the minute details and not the entire Horizon problem to which she has to be involved. Of course she should have been involved with decisions relating to the prosecutions but that is not the point I was making.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

I don't think there is such a thing as a typical CEO job and can only speak from personal experience. In one of my jobs I worked for an organisation with about 3000 employees. Then the person at the top of the pyramid wouldn't have a clue what I was doing or who I was. What that person did is a mystery to me. When I worked for a smaller company with around 50 employees the CEO knew of everything. In the case of the Post Office there were around 60000 employees and I would not therefore have expected a CEO to get involved with the nitty gritty. That was the point I was making to reinforce my conclusion that Vennells was doubly culpable even though I think my minority opinion that she is putting up a reasonable defence of her untenable situation remains.

Perhaps you have a different experience although I fully expect you to disagree.

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You are correct in stating the majority of CEOs of large businesses have little or no knowledge of the day-to-day running of a business and on that basis you'd expect Vennells to be unaware of a few random complaints from disgruntled postmasters.

The problem is during Vennells' tenure this wasn't a few, scattered incidents. It was systematic - they prosecuted over 900 postmasters and had myriad complaints and MPs etc chasing them. It was being widely reported at the time. Constituency MPs were contacting her office. In short, she should and IMHO actually did know something was severely wrong. It was already a major public issue during her tenure. She should have been involved.

She is as guilty as you can be. She knew absolutely everything that went on in this shameful scandal.
Her answers and emotional breakdowns, are
Pathetic and embarrassing to watch.
If it was up to me, I’d strip her of every penny she has, and put it the compensation pot, and jail her for a long time.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

She is as guilty as you can be. She knew absolutely everything that went on in this shameful scandal.
Her answers and emotional breakdowns, are
Pathetic and embarrassing to watch.
If it was up to me, I’d strip her of every penny she has, and put it the compensation pot, and jail her for a long time.

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Nonsense, she should be executed.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

She is as guilty as you can be. She knew absolutely everything that went on in this shameful scandal.
Her answers and emotional breakdowns, are
Pathetic and embarrassing to watch.
If it was up to me, I’d strip her of every penny she has, and put it the compensation pot, and jail her for a long time.

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This with out a doubt.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

She is as guilty as you can be. She knew absolutely everything that went on in this shameful scandal.
Her answers and emotional breakdowns, are
Pathetic and embarrassing to watch.
If it was up to me, I’d strip her of every penny she has, and put it the compensation pot, and jail her for a long time.

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I think after watching it today I agree

It was car crash stuff

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

She is as guilty as you can be. She knew absolutely everything that went on in this shameful scandal.
Her answers and emotional breakdowns, are
Pathetic and embarrassing to watch.
If it was up to me, I’d strip her of every penny she has, and put it the compensation pot, and jail her for a long time.

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100%

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Originally Posted by Alan Lung

Nonsense, she should be executed.

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every day fora week!

The Barristers and Lawyers are very clever.
Their questioning techniques are superb. On several occasions they'd ask her a seemingly open question, which she answers fairly confidently, but several questions later hit her with an email she sent or received, that proved she knew more than she earlier said she did.
It was great tv.

She was absolutely slaughtered by hislop on have I got news for you

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

The Barristers and Lawyers are very clever.
Their questioning techniques are superb. On several occasions they'd ask her a seemingly open question, which she answers fairly confidently, but several questions later hit her with an email she sent or received, that proved she knew more than she earlier said she did.
It was great tv.

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Very clever people but even they looked tired and fed up when she came out with another I don't recall etc etc

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Originally Posted by Vindec

I don't think there is such a thing as a typical CEO job and can only speak from personal experience. In one of my jobs I worked for an organisation with about 3000 employees. Then the person at the top of the pyramid wouldn't have a clue what I was doing or who I was. What that person did is a mystery to me. When I worked for a smaller company with around 50 employees the CEO knew of everything. In the case of the Post Office there were around 60000 employees and I would not therefore have expected a CEO to get involved with the nitty gritty. That was the point I was making to reinforce my conclusion that Vennells was doubly culpable even though I think my minority opinion that she is putting up a reasonable defence of her untenable situation remains.

Perhaps you have a different experience although I fully expect you to disagree.

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We've all worked for people like Paula Vennells - they're everywhere. People who are over-promoted and lack both the morals and critical thinking skills to do the job they're paid for. That's why the public have so much empathy for those affected - because it could happen to us all

They, along with other people in the nhs should be up on corporate manslaughter charges. Their direct actions have led to the death of people.

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Originally Posted by TWGL1

We've all worked for people like Paula Vennells - they're everywhere. People who are over-promoted and lack both the morals and critical thinking skills to do the job they're paid for. That's why the public have so much empathy for those affected - because it could happen to us all

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That's the Peter Principle - do a decent job, get promoted.
Repeat until you can't do the job you're promoted into.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

She was absolutely slaughtered by hislop on have I got news for you

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https://youtu.be/-9EnbLQzkJ8?si=qk4zIbL0zb5RkTxO

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Very clever people but even they looked tired and fed up when she came out with another I don't recall etc etc

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If this ever gets to court - and it will be a outrage if it doesn't - surely this defence won't wash?

She sure is Sludge and rightly so. I don't like people breaking down like that and would usually be empathetic. But in this case no, she and the other woman Angela Van den Bogerd should be getting prison sentences for this huge injustice.
Spedger

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Originally Posted by pipster

Angela van den Bogerd - she gave evidence in Parliament alongside Vennells. Her evidence was also torn apart.
She is Welsh and she is a Jack. I knew I recognised that 'mush' accent from somewhere.

Her husband is Johnathan Ford ex big cheese at the FAW i believe ?

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She was actually a fairly big cheese in the FAW - Head of people. Had her employment terminated when her probation period ran out. She left in 2021 same time as her man Johnathan Ford.
Spedger
Soedger

Brown sticky stuff about to hit the rotary air circulatory device

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2x1dy9g73o

He should get his money back, and more.
PO and Fujitsu heads could start rolling

Every RM and Fujitsu snake involved in this scandal should be jailed. The wrath of UK public should be harnessed and used to force this.

I'm ashamed to say that I am contracting with Fujitsu currently. Nothing to do with Horizon though, different project/client. Not the best company to work for but they are paying my mortgage so I can't take the moral high ground and leave, as I need the money.