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There are some very scary people out there, extreme views, always been present but never had such a platform. Worlds a bit messed up since Covid it seems….two blokes that shoukd probably been in jail are currently running the show, or at least, they think they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
I don’t think anybody is giving anyone a free pass , and there are plenty of murderous dictators that the UK happily deal with in business and politics daily without any regard to that regimes citizens and their wellbeing. You can’t just call out one and not the other.
I think the proxy war is more complicated than what it seems.
Cheers for that :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I think Putin is misunderstoodQuote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Just like Trump
And Ghengis Khan
And Harold Shipman
I had to look it up as time flies does it not! This is a quote from Wikipedia:Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
In March and April 2021, prior to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Russian Armed Forces began massing thousands of personnel and military equipment near Russia's border with Ukraine and in Crimea, representing the largest mobilisation since the illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014.[37][38] This precipitated an international crisis due to concerns over a potential invasion. Satellite imagery showed movements of armour, missiles, and heavy weaponry towards the border.[39][40] The troops were partially withdrawn by June 2021,[41] though the infrastructure was left in place. A second build-up began in October 2021, this time with more soldiers and with deployments on new fronts; by December over 100,000 Russian troops were massed around Ukraine on three sides, including Belarus from the north and Crimea from the south.[42] Despite the Russian military build-ups, Russian officials from November 2021 to 20 February 2022 repeatedly denied that Russia had plans to invade Ukraine.[43][44
The sentence in red is the key sentence.
Three now who think Ukraine started the war (emphasis on the word started); it makes you wonder why they weren’t saying that before Trump did?
Did anyone care who started it prior to when it was announced as the current thing straight after Covid ? The BBC prior to this date ran a few documentaries regarding nazi army regiments and were very active in calling out far right groups until the narrative shifted.
It looks like the narrative will change again and people will continue to ignore the facts.
There is some very disturbing images and videos circulating around social media ( so disturbing that would not want to post on here ) that paints a negative picture of Ukraine
What point are you trying to make? Russia invaded Ukraine because Ukraine aren't very nice and that makes it okay? It just sounds like an excuse, Ukraine is a country with a border, Russia marched over the border, Russia started the war.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Is the UK perfect? If Russia invaded the UK tomorrow, would that war have started because of russian aggression or because we aren't perfect, and therefore justified?
Wow. That settles it then. It seems that the Russians are totally absolved of invading another nation state, bombing to oblivion numerous Ukrainian cities, occupying 20% of Ukraine, wanting the country to be wiped off the face of the map and killing masses of civilians. Thanks for educating us with your very balanced view regarding both of the warring parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
It’s not a case of settling it, just putting out what’s circulating , I don’t think you knew much about it before Covid , as you were busy with that yet all of a sudden you’re pretending to care , right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
What ever the rights and wrongs the sooner some sort of legal solution is in place the better, or would you prefer more and more pointless casualties, if it’s the latter then I’m sure you will be the first to enlist your children , correct ?
I think the fact you have swerved the issues raised in the post sums up your lack of understanding of the matter.
Presumably your kids are already in Ukraine fighting against the rampant corruption and other bad goings on that your videos show, in fact why are you not there right now, putting your money where your mouth is. After all, you can't have an opinion without making that sacrifice, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
See how unproductive discourse is when you become obsessed with 'owning the libs' and gotchas?
Also if America really are the voice of reason here, why are desperately trying to tie peace to their attempt to extort billions of dollars of natural resources from the Ukrainians?
I’m not advocating extending the war so why should I put members of my family forward. You’re sounding like a government propaganda machine with your ignorance and ranting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
I’m sure the facts from both perspectives with spill over into the public consciousness sooner or later , perhaps when it does happen we can have an opportunity for an informed discussion.
I’ve had family members serve in the military and would they do it again , no chance.
No different to countless other wars , why do you think we invaded a quarter of the world, and more recently Iraq and AfghanistanQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Are you that dumb. Please don’t say anything else :hehe:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Firstly, I'm not someone who contributed much on here regarding Covid so I have no idea what you are on about.
Secondly, I travelled around Ukraine independently a year or two before Covid hit and I always take interest in the history of every country I visited (and I still keep up-to-date with the situation over there). I tend to stay with local families where possible too - in order to take in their perspectives on life.
(I happened to visit Belarus after Ukraine that and Russia a few years earlier, for what it's worth).
Oh, and I used to work in the field of International Relations.
However, thanks for telling me what I knew and what I don't know.
Why are you dismissing facts then and downplaying the seriousness then ? Your humour is totally unnecessary, and offensive. I presume you get sacked from international relations on the basis of your opinion and mindset?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
BTW I’ve been to Russia aswell with Wales and numerous satellite states and I know people who have been to Ukraine and it’s corrupt as ****
P.S. I didn't swerve the issue as I have no need to. I am aware that it's not a simplistic matter and that both sides of the conflict have their failings but it's a matter of balance, which doesn't seem to be your schtick However, your subsequent informing me of what I know and didn't know was rather ludicrous and based on diddly-squat.
What did I dismiss? Atrocities have indeed taken place on the Ukrainian side. And yes, corruption is not a stranger to the country, that's true. And no, I didn't get my marching orders from my work but your concern is very disarming. They did like people to see both sides of an argument though.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Apologies for my humour being offensive. I'll have to inform Eric The Half A Bee as he had a question about the concept of offensive humour on here a few days ago.
Perhaps you can now explain why you fabricated a comment about me not knowing anything about Ukraine prior to Covid.
So you obviously don't feel very strongly about Ukraine being bad if you aren't willing to commit yourself or your family to fighting against it. I don't think you are missing the irony in my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
There is no possibility of an informed discussion if you can't understand that a country invading another country constitutes them starting a war. You can cite background and reason as a secondary point (context is always important) but you need to be able to accept that this war stops tomorrow if Russia leaves Ukraine, gives the land back and lets Ukraine govern itself and decide it's own future.
It's very different, the USA are not at war with Ukraine, Trump is trying to leverage his position in the 'peace' agreement to extort them out of resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
You really aren't as clever as you think.
Ok then …. Let’s see how this plays out and what’s your reaction to this and the thread leadingQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
https://x.com/stillgray/status/18928...LhmySD2aRt-GNg
I don't speak the language so I can't really have a reaction to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
This one , with piers morganQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
https://x.com/stillgray/status/18926...LhmySD2aRt-GNg
Or this one
https://x.com/adamemedia/status/1892...LhmySD2aRt-GNg
No response then from CCMB's worst mind-reader.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
Russia undoubtedly started the War, there is no excuse for what they have done. And Ethnic Russians have been treated terribly in Ukraine, assaulted for speaking Russian, had the power to their homes turned off in Winter, schools trashed, and three referendums carried out and overwhelmingly in favour of Russian sovereignty were deemed illegal, add to that Nazi Factions politically involved in Ukraine. Putin is a Gangster revisionist, he just wants to go back to the old days.......
I take that comment back , my assumption was incorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie
Pretty irrelevant to the question of whether Russia started the war.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Do you think countries should be able to dictate other countries domestic and foreign policy choices and then invade them if they breach their red lines?
For instance if France had said in 2014, 'don't vote Brexit, that hurts us', they would be justified in invading us in 2016?
So, good the USA are trying to stop the war, they caused the Russians to react? Shame it resulted in so much destruction and the death of about 100,000 young Russians and 70,000 from Ukraine….what an amazing waste of life for very small political gain. Really, both country’s are just a bunch of ***** to put it bluntly.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Don’t give Starmer ideas nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Exactly. Putin was never planning to stop at Ukraine, he's on a personal mission to get back what they lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
“You could have talked him out of it. That war should have never happened. "Every time I say, "It's not Russia's fault," but Biden said the wrong things, Zelensky said the wrong things, and they got attacked, which was a bad thing to do. But Russia could have been talked out of it so easily.”
Hard to work out who’s at fault considering the it sounds like an 12 year old speaking, but this seems to indicate Trump thinks it was Russia who started it.
Unless we’re counting “saying the wrong things” as starting a war now.
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1