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I've heard them talk more convincingly about the core causes in recent years, yesQuote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Peter Kyle (who I don't mind actually) was an absolute wet blanket on question time the other day. What's happening is really serious.
Show the evidence then?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
If I leave my current job, I would look for a job that is predominantly remote, I might find one, I might not but to go back to an office full time would be a sacrifice rather than an aim.. There are far more people who want remote work and can't find it, than the other way around. I don't really know where your obsession on this comes from because I have seen literally no compelling evidence to link the two things.
What I have seen with my own two eyes is that kids are growing up with far more complex mental health needs (and there is far greater understanding/wider diagnosis) and that has started to feed more and more heavily into the working age cohort.
Wages are shit, life is expensive, kids are raised by the internet which flaunts lifestyles they are never going to have. They become an adult and it all comes crashing down.
If the companies who are so vocal about WFH really cared about peoples wellbeing + mental health, they would do something concrete about it rather than try and pull a massive con on the general public and try and convince us that actually the best thing for everybody is a bit of social time, the perfect location? Your poorly lit, shitty airconned, dingey office, 15 miles from your house, hanging around with a bunch of people you don't really know - don't forget to go to Pret for your lunch every day as well.
I think you're talking through your a**e. It has benefitted a huge number of people and it's very sensible. Just because it's right wing clap trap that you ascribe to doesn't make it true. Whenever possible, if the situation permits, people should have the choice where and how they work.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Do you even know what "right wing" means? 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
Right wing clap trap like NHS Wales?
Worse outcomes for mental wellbeing. Worse outcomes for loneliness.
And it's getting worse since COVID.
It's impact is disproportionately on the lower paid
Those in unhappy homes
Those with less space
Younger people.
The idea that huge decreases in human interaction has no impact on mental well-being is plainly highly unlikely. It's having a huge impact. If you don't care about it that's up to you, if you personally benefit then good for you, but don't pretend it's not an issue.
Alongside other issues it's having a huge impact on individual and collective wellbeing. Can you actually imagine what it's like for people unhappy homes to be made to spend more time there?
This isn't about flexibility. Hybrid work can work. It's about a society where people are mixing much less than before, and that has an impact and the rise in poor mental health, especially in the young absolutely is part of that.
https://phw.nhs.wales/news/is-workin...and-wellbeing/
And yes, the fact the government aren't talking about this and other issues, and instead just bluntly talking finances of the increased benefit costs does annoy me!
Well I havntQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
The causes of ill health can be addressed till the cows come home but if someone recovering from a stroke in 2025 is awarded PIP or an out of work benefit but 2 years later YOU have a stroke but get f all because of this bill ....then we have a serious problem every bit as serious as people working from home etc
I don't disagree with you Sludge.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Absolute boll***s! You absolutely have no idea what you're talking about. I've lived through it. This issue shows you up as the grubby little bigot you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
What the hell are you on about? We all lived through it and continue to do so. What are you saying is bollocks? The NHs data?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
From this article: a reported 80% feels it harms their mental health. I am one of them, I know many of them, some very seriously indeed. Don't throw insults around when people are trying to work out the serious mental health problems in this country, that have got significantly worse since COVID.
I'll add "bigot" as another word you clearly don't know the meaning of, because sharing NHS Wales data on mental health is definitely not an example of it.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...health-society
If the government ever had a plot on 'welfare reform' (other than making budget cuts) they have totally lost it today!
It started as an incoherent and contradictory mess - and they have managed to make an even bigger dogs breakfast out of it.
And made Liz Kendall look even more of a clown in the process (the latest changes/concessions completely undermine most of her pitch earlier in the day).
This is a failure of policy, party management, and having a narrative (controlled or not). Shambles!
I think its fantastic that people with serious disabilities already on PIP are telling the government ....we according to you are protected.....but what about young people becoming disabled in a few years ? You are cutting these people adriftQuote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Fair play to them
Haven’t they just. Leave the yah boo stuff to one side, the politics and management of it all has been abysmal, to the extent that there are still plenty of rebels not supporting their party and the policy has just become a joke. I used to think that the last Government was the worst one I’ve seen at the art of politics, but this lot are probably worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
It has been a shambles.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
This debacle has probably killed any chance of reform of the benefits system in this parliament.
I expect labour will just take their medicine and opt to absorb the ballooning welfare bill by cutting elsewhere now, kicking the can down the road for someone else to deal with.
Then we might see what cuts really look like...
Is it true the concessions will actually end up costing more money? If so it's one of the most tragic comedies I can remember in British politics in recent years.
A great example of a win being a loss
As a percentage of gdp the welfare bill hasn't risen much since 2008Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
The promise to triple lock costs absolutely crazy amounts of money
And of course the deliberate blurring between out of work payments and ill health benefits is disgraceful ...playing to the crowd
If starmer and Reeves had introduced a freeze to certain benefits for 2 years and genuinely entered into dialogue with disability groups then things would have been very different
A survey by electoral calculus yesterday .....one of the best poll analysts ....said labour just needed to pull back the voters who had left to the liberals and the greens and they would still win the election
But after this complete shambles and back stabbing then unless starmer is axed and the cabinet sent packing they have absolutely no chance . None of the main players have any respect . What idiots Kendal, Timms , Nandy , Reynolds, Alexander , Rayner have looked lying through their teeth defending this bill .....shameful and embarrassing
They have shot themselves in the foot and alienated so many supporters who were clinging on desperately
They have looked like sunaks government , in its last few months
The talk of the next election being 4 years away is irrelevant now , I am praying he soon walks the plank
It's possible I guess because there are provisions in the bill committing to spending. Depends which way you look at it, we know the cost of pip is going to balloon by the end of the parliament and this bill was only going to mitigate that, it wasn't a cut at all so if the question is whether pip will cost more next year than last year the answer will be yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
The problem for labour is now what wiggle room do they actually have in any of their major budgets? Health - none, welfare - none, etc.
So it's tax rises (beyond the usual fiscal drag tax rise), borrowing more for day to day spending or canning infrastructure spending.
What a mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
DefenceQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Spending ridiculous amounts of money on bombs is nonsense
Increasing high tech defence of computer systems is great and far more cost effective
55 percent of welfare budget is on pensionersQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
165 billion compared to the 5 billion savings they tried to scrounge off people in wheelchairs .....outrageous double standards from all of them
The triple lock is a disaster ..get rid of it or make it a double lock
Lots of room to save billions and billions there
The simple fact is a lot of people on welfare and disability are marginalised and dont have the power of the pensioners lobby ......its not only pensioners who have paid taxes and saved....the discrimination and finger pointing is hypocritical
Welfare payments being generally means tested might bean option with a far better grading .....
If someone is disabled but wealthy its just as stupid to award them 5k a year for taxis as it is to give a wealthy pensioner 200 quid towards an electricity bill which ends up being used for chocolates and sweets for the grandchildren
👍Totally agree! Means testing is the sensible way forwardQuote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
I was listening to a podcast at the weekend where a pollster was saying Labour have lost three times as many supporters to the Lib Dems and Greens (and Independents) as they have to Reform - even though the Labour drop matches the Reform rise it has not in the main been a direct switch.
That trend will get bigger after the latest 'Welfare Reform' fiasco and the pledge to support the arms industry at a level not seen for three generations!
Agree and the probable outcome would be some kind of "rainbow coalition from hell" with strange bedfellows. We have a very divided country (World even?)Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
I listened to it as well. It all sounded bleeding obvious to me, but Starmer’s Labour don’t seem to understand that and are fixated by Reform - if there were an election today, I’d vote Green, Plaid or, possibly, Lib Dem and Labour should be far more worried about losing life time supporters like me than they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
John McDonnell's analysis of Labour's lack of leadership, vision, principle and basic competence is (I think) interesting.
His description of the way the Labour Party has been hijacked and gutted is one I recognise. He also thinks there is a high chance of a palace coup against Starmer sooner rather than later.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...john-mcdonnell
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/..._20250630.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
At best a minority government or coalition
I think thats wildly optimistic
Unless starmer is kicked out , Dracula in a pink suit will be prime minister
I quite like John McDonnell on a personal level, but Im not sure he's the best person to advise on hijacking parties and unity etc..or maybe he is?!Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Do you think there's any chance of a split? Starting to feel like there is a growing body of MPs on the left of the party who are happy to rebel. A good example of some parties having too large a majority to govern effectively really.
I can't see any formal split but it's starting to feel like a party within a party
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/..._20250630.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
At best a minority government or coalition
I think thats wildly optimistic
Unless starmer is kicked out , Dracula in a pink suit will be prime minister
Leadership challenge first , see some teethQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Then a split if nothing comes of it
Who would you want to challenge him?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
You aren't going to find me disagreeing with much of that. Double lock might make next to no difference unless you strip out the right markers.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
But the real point is that no government can do it. You saw what happened when they tried to do anything to the pensioner cohort, useful idiots working minwage jobs backed them up, people just don't understand how much the wealth of different demographics have shifted since triple lock was introduced.
The only lever the government has is fiscal drag on income tax because most people don't see it happening.
If pip is a payment to support additional spending due to a health condition then it needs to be woven into the NHS (with adequate information and resources). They can then make an assessment as to whether to issue treatment or a payment, it will force the NHS to evolve to a society where mental health is prevalent and provides a trusted layer.
The reality is that the majority of people on pip aren't working, whether they could be is obviously an individual thing but at a basic level, it has become an additional payment to people on uc predominantly and I don't think that was the intention.
And to answer your earlier point re: gdp, this bill was always about pre-empting and mitigating spending increases. I have no issue with people calling it a shambles but from a process perspective governments should be working with the future in mind and we rarely see it.
Stella Creasey, Peter Lamb , Meg HillierQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I wouldn't want any of the old school corbyn wing but I think they are so important for attacking the right and tory lite creeps currently ruling the roost
The people who have switched to liberal and green are not going to be won back by any starmer clones
Lisa Nandy is a real let down , I had high hopes for her several years ago
Interesting. I've never even heard of the bloke there. Stella Creasy seems alright but no PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
I think they would all let you down. Thats the reality of government.
The money saved yesterday will now be found elsewhere. Probably from council tax. That means less money in people's pockets, less growth etc. There's no easy solutions and we are in such a mess, as it should be said, are many Western nations.
Stella Creasey, Peter Lamb , Meg HillierQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I wouldn't want any of the old school corbyn wing but I think they are so important for attacking the right and tory lite creeps currently ruling the roost
The people who have switched to liberal and green are not going to be won back by any starmer clones
Lisa Nandy is a real let down , I had high hopes for her several years ago
Yeah you told us this earlier 😂😉Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY