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nice to see you back SL
Nobody could have predicted how bad he and this government were going to beOriginally Posted by Eric Cartman
The right wing voters are welcome to farage but starmer is slaying his core vote and either he goes or the greens and liberals will get old school labour supporters
Which will only mean that farage walks into number 10
Get starmer out pronto
The leadership are trying to turn a tanker around in a canal, partly due to their self imposed financial rules. But the UK has a massive issue coming down the tracks in terms of disability spending and obviously pension spending, all the while more and more of the budget gets eaten up by interest payments. Too much of the workforce are earning shit money these days, any rise in taxes will be felt. If Reeves announces an extension to fiscal drag on income tax bands or income tax rises, will there be 120 rebel MPs? Will there ****, the party doesn't have a clue who it is meant to represent anymore.
If Farage is going to walk into number 10, it's because the right have a bogeyman to rally around in the boats. The left and centre left are too busy whining, fighting each other and trying to appear more ideologically pure than the person next to them to actually do anything.
The opponents to this bill were far from just the usual left wing of the labour party
Farage is going to walk into number ten because starmer is utterly incompetent .....even with reform on a roll just a bit of shape and substance would be enough to get over the line but hes completely shot to bits .
The behaviour of the cabinet and junior ministers on this particular matter has sunk any chance of a revival for Starmer and his supporters . The lies and misinformation spread about are as bad if not worse than anything the Tories have come up with .
If you are going to deal with such important issues as those contained in the subject matter of the bill you need to get the basics right . But its been a list of lies and its painfully obvious when the main players face the media over the whole shambles .
The worst thing you can do when you are short of friends is take the piss out of the ones you have left .
That female comic with cerebral palsy on this mornings politics show was clearly the core labour voter hes lost . If hes not chased out of office together with his acolytes the party is completely finished .
The issue of financial responsibility can only be dealt with if the core of what's on offer is believable . At the moment its about as genuine as a fake twenty pound note . Nobody who matters is falling for any of it .
I think the bill will sail through now the concessions have been made. Will probably be enough to satisfy half of the reported rebels.
That's what you thought before the concessions
The concessions are nonsense
I assume you are in reasonable health as of today
If someone you know is wheelchair bound due to a disability they will probably get pip as of now
If these fibs dressed up as concessions gp through then YOU , in two years time could be seriously injured in a car crash but under the new 4 points system you will be rejected
This reform is bollocks and I hope its starmers poll tax
It may limp through if enough 'rebels' have been talked around, but the policy is incoherent and illogical. It creates two tiers of benefit recipients. It does not reform the benefits system to make it work better - it just applies cuts to make savings for the Treasury. It lacks any vision or any political courage. It has also - once again - exposed the Starmer government as confused and incompetent. In the lead up to the election the Starmer inner circle had a reputation for bullying, ruthlessness and getting things done (often bad things, but they did get them done). In government all that has gone - except for the bullying!
Chris Bryant Rhondda who represents an area where lots of people have long term health disability is backing ss starmer
Jo Stephens , Welsh secretary ......same
This is the end of the labour party and maybe that's a good thing as clearly if only 127 and now 30 Mps are not prepared to back a bill farage would have been proud of , its time to regroup and call it a day
The thousands of people who in two or three years time will suddenly find themselves disabled and in need of PIP for care , adaptations , transport if they cant drive .....will be thrown aside on these new rules
What they have done is say those on pip now ....they are OK.....but from 2026 onwards ......any new vulnerable people ? .......get fecked
The Labour Mps who vote this through ? ........yeah OK that sounds fair enough
No way can any left of centre voter support that sort of backstabbing , he and Labour have had it
Yeah i think it's a mess and I won't pretend to have drilled into the details on it. I'm just observing as an exercise in Westminster politics really.
What does annoy me is the limp acceptance that so many more are claiming since Covid and the total lack of commentary on why that is.
Some people are on the take, we all know that's true, but generally people don't pretend to be unwell, they pretend to be well.
I'm beyond angry at the state of mental health in this country and the way politicians glibly accept it and do nothing to think about the root causes
Richard Burgon MP opinion piece today on why he will still oppose the cuts:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...isabled-people
Some people drink and drive
Some people .....a lot of people ....make false insurance claims
The level of welfare benefits to GDP has been stable since 2008
Stephen Timms the minister involved in all this had to accept this recently
A plague on all their houses , especially starmers gang who are dead ducks in the water unless they pull lots of rabbits out of the hat
If its bad with Starmer , farage will go round with firing squads
Going off topic here but actually Reform have spoken far more about some of the root causes of poor mental health since Covid; isolation, working from home, technological changes, social media, and this is something I would like to hear far more from the government.
Working from home VASTLY improved my mental health so that is just another right wing chestnut.
Always anecdotal cases but not generally it hasn't and not for younger people, people earlier in their careers and those who need interaction. It's been devastating and the costs of it are baked into what we are seeing now. I can think of no single non-financial policy change that has so benefitted the wealthy and well-to-do, those with more comfortable homelives, spare rooms for offices etc. The impact on those who need interaction (the vast majority of people do) is really serious.
Theres a reason the country is mentally so unwell and that's a big part of it
Reform have spoken more about mental ill health than starmer and co ?
Whilst that wouldn't be difficult I would be extremely surprised if that was the case
Reform definitely appeal to the .....pull yourself together gang ....everyone is playing the mental health card these days ! ......etc etc
But of course these reforms affect people with all sorts of disabilities and chronic ill health
Timms is on sky again this evening talking bollocks about consultation .....which will according to him be thorough ......and of course he hopes will take place AFTER the initial bill has been passed tomorrow 😆
Absolute shower , I hope they all fall down like a pack of cards
Its a financial bill to save money .....and they should have been straight about that .....at least then their talk of consultation and support and compromise could have been taken seriously ....because compromise is part of life .but there is no compromise and concessions with this , its the same bill with Liz Kendal and her team pretending to be caring and emotional about it in Parliament
I've heard them talk more convincingly about the core causes in recent years, yes
Peter Kyle (who I don't mind actually) was an absolute wet blanket on question time the other day. What's happening is really serious.
Show the evidence then?
If I leave my current job, I would look for a job that is predominantly remote, I might find one, I might not but to go back to an office full time would be a sacrifice rather than an aim.. There are far more people who want remote work and can't find it, than the other way around. I don't really know where your obsession on this comes from because I have seen literally no compelling evidence to link the two things.
What I have seen with my own two eyes is that kids are growing up with far more complex mental health needs (and there is far greater understanding/wider diagnosis) and that has started to feed more and more heavily into the working age cohort.
Wages are shit, life is expensive, kids are raised by the internet which flaunts lifestyles they are never going to have. They become an adult and it all comes crashing down.
If the companies who are so vocal about WFH really cared about peoples wellbeing + mental health, they would do something concrete about it rather than try and pull a massive con on the general public and try and convince us that actually the best thing for everybody is a bit of social time, the perfect location? Your poorly lit, shitty airconned, dingey office, 15 miles from your house, hanging around with a bunch of people you don't really know - don't forget to go to Pret for your lunch every day as well.
I think you're talking through your a**e. It has benefitted a huge number of people and it's very sensible. Just because it's right wing clap trap that you ascribe to doesn't make it true. Whenever possible, if the situation permits, people should have the choice where and how they work.
Do you even know what "right wing" means? 😂
Right wing clap trap like NHS Wales?
Worse outcomes for mental wellbeing. Worse outcomes for loneliness.
And it's getting worse since COVID.
It's impact is disproportionately on the lower paid
Those in unhappy homes
Those with less space
Younger people.
The idea that huge decreases in human interaction has no impact on mental well-being is plainly highly unlikely. It's having a huge impact. If you don't care about it that's up to you, if you personally benefit then good for you, but don't pretend it's not an issue.
Alongside other issues it's having a huge impact on individual and collective wellbeing. Can you actually imagine what it's like for people unhappy homes to be made to spend more time there?
This isn't about flexibility. Hybrid work can work. It's about a society where people are mixing much less than before, and that has an impact and the rise in poor mental health, especially in the young absolutely is part of that.
https://phw.nhs.wales/news/is-workin...and-wellbeing/
And yes, the fact the government aren't talking about this and other issues, and instead just bluntly talking finances of the increased benefit costs does annoy me!
Well I havnt
The causes of ill health can be addressed till the cows come home but if someone recovering from a stroke in 2025 is awarded PIP or an out of work benefit but 2 years later YOU have a stroke but get f all because of this bill ....then we have a serious problem every bit as serious as people working from home etc
I don't disagree with you Sludge.
Absolute boll***s! You absolutely have no idea what you're talking about. I've lived through it. This issue shows you up as the grubby little bigot you are.
What the hell are you on about? We all lived through it and continue to do so. What are you saying is bollocks? The NHs data?
From this article: a reported 80% feels it harms their mental health. I am one of them, I know many of them, some very seriously indeed. Don't throw insults around when people are trying to work out the serious mental health problems in this country, that have got significantly worse since COVID.
I'll add "bigot" as another word you clearly don't know the meaning of, because sharing NHS Wales data on mental health is definitely not an example of it.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...health-society
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