The War starts Putin announces "Military Operation" in Ukraine. Explosions heard in Kyiv

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK

https://youtu.be/x2TGvndDcxE

many won't talk but some do

---

I wonder how many of those folk have seen images and footage of Ukrainian hospitals and apartment blocks getting pummelled by their governments shelling and mortar fire. Dead civilians in the streets etc.
It’s quite a depressing watch as they look like normal everyday people going about their business, some concerned about sanctions and money yet completely oblivious to the atrocities being carried out a few hundred miles away.
Blinkered to the rest of the world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goats

I went to church three times about 13 years ago, 6 regulars, none under 65….those 3 hours are lost forever

---

Indeed, I would agree that many churches have lost the plot, due to the fear offending people with the truth. The truth in any walk of life will produce a little turbulence among the masses, if you abandon it (in this case the Bible) you only end up deceiving yourself.
Shame on the many church leaders who are guilty of this; I'm sorry you experienced such an example.

The massive growth in numbers is among the Churches who do the exact opposite (to the above).

In Ukraine, despite their many challenges, the strength of the evanglical Churches is incredible and has been for much of the last 30-40 years; I have many friends who travel to Poland & Ukraine up to 4 times each year and have done since the 1980's; if they ask you to take a Bible Study, they don't expect it to be an hour, it must be an afternoon or a full evening.

A fact from just last week: the demand for Bible's in Ukraine had outstripped the supply. These people know which way is up.

You mentioned 'lost forever' - I trust that isn't your experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truthpaste

Indeed, I would agree that many churches have lost the plot, due to the fear offending people with the truth. The truth in any walk of life will produce a little turbulence among the masses, if you abandon it (in this case the Bible) you only end up deceiving yourself.
Shame on the many church leaders who are guilty of this; I'm sorry you experienced such an example.

The massive growth in numbers is among the Churches who do the exact opposite (to the above).

In Ukraine, despite their many challenges, the strength of the evanglical Churches is incredible and has been for much of the last 30-40 years; I have many friends who travel to Poland & Ukraine up to 4 times each year and have done since the 1980's; if they ask you to take a Bible Study, they don't expect it to be an hour, it must be an afternoon or a full evening.

A fact from just last week: the demand for Bible's in Ukraine had outstripped the supply. These people know which way is up.

You mentioned 'lost forever' - I trust that isn't your experience.

---

What’s the truth then? I don’t get offended very easily I’m sure I can cope with it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goats

What’s the truth then? I don’t get offended very easily I’m sure I can cope with it?

---

I'd be happy to explain, however I don't wish to detract from the key theme of the thread any more than I have to; so if you'd like a proper dialogue then please PM me and I'll answer all your questions as fully as I am able.

The short answer is this, Jesus Christ is God and came here on a Mission to rescue worthless and rebellious individuals like me. You'll be familiar with the Cross and the claim He rose again; if you want to examine the evidence for that OUTSIDE the Bible then this movie is a great intro to that investigation >> The Case for Christ (2017)

If you just want a tea-break explanation of why He chose to die on the Cross for people like me or you then listen here >> The GOSPEL in 5 minutes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rjk

hopefully she remains safe following this.
the fine is one thing, but when the world's attention is elsewhere journalists have been killed in Russia for a lot less than this.

---

just seen on the news it took 14 hours for her lawyer to find her after her arrest

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blue matt

just seen on the news it took 14 hours for her lawyer to find her after her arrest

---

Russia is a big place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

Russia is a big place.

---

and to think you could have said " Always wise to check down the back of the sofa first "

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truthpaste

I'd be happy to explain, however I don't wish to detract from the key theme of the thread any more than I have to; so if you'd like a proper dialogue then please PM me and I'll answer all your questions as fully as I am able.

The short answer is this, Jesus Christ is God and came here on a Mission to rescue worthless and rebellious individuals like me. You'll be familiar with the Cross and the claim He rose again; if you want to examine the evidence for that OUTSIDE the Bible then this movie is a great intro to that investigation >> The Case for Christ (2017)

If you just want a tea-break explanation of why He chose to die on the Cross for people like me or you then listen here >> The GOSPEL in 5 minutes

---

Your are so boring. You have no "truth". Stop peddling falsehoods.

Trivial: how many fish were in the ark? Why were they there?

Serious: if your good is all about good, why does it allow evil?

Thinking point 1: as I understand it, your god allows you to sin like crazy but as long as you repent and "believe" in it you're going to "heaven". Who wants to be aligned with a craven pos like that? I mean you'd allow Putin, Stalin and Hitler in to your special place as long as they had "faith". Correct?

Thinking point 2: Why are you lot all sad when people die? Presumably you're all going to your happy place to be with Mr/Mrs Confused (it vacillates between smiting its followers and blessing them in your magic book) Craven Yahweh/Jesus/whatever.

When you have reasoned sensible answers, start another thread. Don't reply on this one.

(P.S. FFS sort out your use of apostrophes. Maybe pray to Yahweh for guidance. Your grammar is awful.)

It sounds to me like Ukraine and its allies are going to offer Putin a face saving deal with an announcement that Ukraine won't join NATO in the foreseeable future.

Hopeful but it leaves a lot of issues unresolved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by az city

It sounds to me like Ukraine and its allies are going to offer Putin a face saving deal with an announcement that Ukraine won't join NATO in the foreseeable future.

Hopeful but it leaves a lot of issues unresolved.

---

Yes definitely it's a start, he's going to need to go back and say this is why we invaded and we won.

I would imagine he'll want a slice of the country as well, but they looks like a chance that a deal could be done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by az city

It sounds to me like Ukraine and its allies are going to offer Putin a face saving deal with an announcement that Ukraine won't join NATO in the foreseeable future.

Hopeful but it leaves a lot of issues unresolved.

---

The dictator wins if Ukraine won't be allowed to join NATO.
What a shit show

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truthpaste

I'd be happy to explain, however I don't wish to detract from the key theme of the thread any more than I have to; so if you'd like a proper dialogue then please PM me and I'll answer all your questions as fully as I am able.

The short answer is this, Jesus Christ is God and came here on a Mission to rescue worthless and rebellious individuals like me. You'll be familiar with the Cross and the claim He rose again; if you want to examine the evidence for that OUTSIDE the Bible then this movie is a great intro to that investigation >> The Case for Christ (2017)

If you just want a tea-break explanation of why He chose to die on the Cross for people like me or you then listen here >> The GOSPEL in 5 minutes

---

Please take your talking snake, virgin birth and human sarifice tosh to a dedicated thread where you can be as ludicrously faux-didactic as you like.

It’s just disgusting that bully boy 💩tin gets any say at all in the affairs of Ukraine.
I just hope that the Russians overthrow him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Please take your talking snake, virgin birth and human sarifice tosh to a dedicated thread where you can be as ludicrously faux-didactic as you like.

---

Just stay patient. I think there'll be a moderator along soon, possibly in May if we're lucky.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Please take your talking snake, virgin birth and human sarifice tosh to a dedicated thread where you can be as ludicrously faux-didactic as you like.

---

Agree. Way too much faux-didacticism on here lately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Agree. Way too much faux-didacticism on here lately.

---

:hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lardy

Just stay patient. I think there'll be a moderator along soon, possibly in May if we're lucky.

---

Let him rant on….born again Christian’s eh? They just cannot help themselves:hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by az city

Your are so boring. You have no "truth". Stop peddling falsehoods.

Trivial: how many fish were in the ark? Why were they there?

Serious: if your good is all about good, why does it allow evil?

Thinking point 1: as I understand it, your god allows you to sin like crazy but as long as you repent and "believe" in it you're going to "heaven". Who wants to be aligned with a craven pos like that? I mean you'd allow Putin, Stalin and Hitler in to your special place as long as they had "faith". Correct?

Thinking point 2: Why are you lot all sad when people die? Presumably you're all going to your happy place to be with Mr/Mrs Confused (it vacillates between smiting its followers and blessing them in your magic book) Craven Yahweh/Jesus/whatever.

When you have reasoned sensible answers, start another thread. Don't reply on this one.

(P.S. FFS sort out your use of apostrophes. Maybe pray to Yahweh for guidance. Your grammar is awful.)

---

Before you set up your better english for all classes maybe you need to look at your own:-

Your very first word is incorrect. "Your are so boring" should read "You're so boring" :sherlock:

You don't really want answers (although there are answers to these and all the other tired efforts) because your own god has you boxed in, but I'll take one out of the selction offered for the sake of space and the nosebleeds being suffered by the Genie and others who can't scroll past the posts that offend their god:-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: as I understand it, your god allows you to sin like crazy but as long as you repent and "believe" in it you're going to "heaven".

A: You've no doubt 'understood' your Roman Catholic friend who does as he likes and then confesses it all to a guy in a robe who tells him to do ABC in penance for his sins, yet what has that to do with the unchanging truth of the Bible?
Understand the word REPENT and you won't ask the question; it means to change your thinking, lifestyle and priorities, with God's help.

You've accused me of peddling untruths but you've currently demonstrated no understanding of Christianity or been brave enough to share your 'truth'?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truthpaste

Before you set up your better english for all classes maybe you need to look at your own:-

Your very first word is incorrect. "Your are so boring" should read "You're so boring" :sherlock:

You don't really want answers (although there are answers to these and all the other tired efforts) because your own god has you boxed in, but I'll take one out of the selction offered for the sake of space and the nosebleeds being suffered by the Genie and others who can't scroll past the posts that offend their god:-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: as I understand it, your god allows you to sin like crazy but as long as you repent and "believe" in it you're going to "heaven".

A: You've no doubt 'understood' your Roman Catholic friend who does as he likes and then confesses it all to a guy in a robe who tells him to do ABC in penance for his sins, yet what has that to do with the unchanging truth of the Bible?
Understand the word REPENT and you won't ask the question; it means to change your thinking, lifestyle and priorities, with God's help.

You've accused me of peddling untruths but you've currently demonstrated no understanding of Christianity or been brave enough to share your 'truth'?

---

Laughable. My mistake is a clearly a finger-slip typo, yours are systematic. Understand your errors and repent.

So, just answer straightforwardly. If I repented (in whatever twisted, up its own arse definition you prefer) a life of sin 1 minute before death, in your religion your god would allow me in, correct? I know you won't admit it but it's correct.

Here's a bigger problem for you. If your magic book and all knowledge of its existence disappeared completely would people still discover/have faith in your god? Would they even know your god existed? The answer is clearly "no".

Except (and this reveals my "truth" in your words) if the same happened with every science text ever written, you know what would happen? It would all be discovered again because science is fact and it exists. Your god doesn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by az city

Laughable. My mistake is a clearly a finger-slip typo, yours are systematic. Understand your errors and repent.

So, just answer straightforwardly. If I repented (in whatever twisted, up its own arse definition you prefer) a life of sin 1 minute before death, in your religion your god would allow me in, correct? I know you won't admit it but it's correct.

Here's a bigger problem for you. If your magic book and all knowledge of its existence disappeared completely would people still discover/have faith in your god? Would they even know your god existed? The answer is clearly "no".

Except (and this reveals my "truth" in your words) if the same happened with every science text ever written, you know what would happen? It would all be discovered again because science is fact and it exists. Your god doesn't.

---

So, just answer straightforwardly. If I repented (in whatever twisted, up its own arse definition you prefer) a life of sin 1 minute before death, in your religion your god would allow me in, correct? I know you won't admit it but it's correct.

You've never heard of the thief on the Cross who genuinely repented and was saved in the last few hours of his life?
And if you are thinking of employing that tactic remember that many deaths can be immediate or even during your sleep. The Bible says, 'now is the accepted time' (ie your next breath isn't guaranteed).

Here's a bigger problem for you. If your magic book and all knowledge of its existence disappeared completely would people still discover/have faith in your god? Would they even know your god existed? The answer is clearly "no".

In fact just before there was a ban on anyone (who didn't belong there) going into the Amazon rainforest a missionary made contact with a large tribe. It turned out that they were all Christians much to his surprise. He asked them who visited them or where they had read about Jesus? They told him that nobody had come to tell them and none of them had seen a book, also none of them could read anyway! One of their tribe had seen Jesus in a dream who explained everything to him, he woke up and prayed - ie he repented and gave his life to Christ. From there he shared what he knew of Jesus with everyone, and they all now served Christ too.
You may well ask the question, why wouldn't God allow me or someone in Cathays, Roath or Canton to have such a dream, and the answer is this, God has provided more than enough evidence and opportunities for the people of Cardiff to repent, the fact is this, they all want to have 'my way' (or similar) played at their funerals, because they all know better :sherlock:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truthpaste

[I]

In fact just before there was a ban on anyone (who didn't belong there) going into the Amazon rainforest a missionary made contact with a large tribe. It turned out that they were all Christians much to his surprise. He asked them who visited them or where they had read about Jesus? They told him that nobody had come to tell them and none of them had seen a book, also none of them could read anyway! One of their tribe had seen Jesus in a dream who explained everything to him, he woke up and prayed - ie he repented and gave his life to Christ. From there he shared what he knew of Jesus with everyone, and they all now served Christ too.

---

Can you post your source for this? Because it sounds suspiciously made up.

I had a quick look and couldn't find mention of it. Found this though https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b635d25d6ec824

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by delmbox

Can you post your source for this? Because it sounds suspiciously made up.

I had a quick look and couldn't find mention of it. Found this though https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b635d25d6ec824

---

Or maybe this!

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefre...to-an-atheist/

Anyway this thread needs to get back on track, let’s hope we get a ceasefire soon with Ukraine agreeing not to join NATO (seems odd as surely this could have been done prior to the invasion) and Russia to never enter Ukraine again. That should be enough for Pootin to declare his victory despite not really getting anyway, ruining parts of Ukraine and 1000’s of peoples lives, killing 10,000 young Russians and ruining his own economy…..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon1959

Or maybe this!

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefre...to-an-atheist/

---

I got stuck on a long trans Atlantic flight once sat next to three missionaries….man that was a very very long flight

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truthpaste

So, just answer straightforwardly. If I repented (in whatever twisted, up its own arse definition you prefer) a life of sin 1 minute before death, in your religion your god would allow me in, correct? I know you won't admit it but it's correct.

You've never heard of the thief on the Cross who genuinely repented and was saved in the last few hours of his life?
And if you are thinking of employing that tactic remember that many deaths can be immediate or even during your sleep. The Bible says, 'now is the accepted time' (ie your next breath isn't guaranteed).

Here's a bigger problem for you. If your magic book and all knowledge of its existence disappeared completely would people still discover/have faith in your god? Would they even know your god existed? The answer is clearly "no".

In fact just before there was a ban on anyone (who didn't belong there) going into the Amazon rainforest a missionary made contact with a large tribe. It turned out that they were all Christians much to his surprise. He asked them who visited them or where they had read about Jesus? They told him that nobody had come to tell them and none of them had seen a book, also none of them could read anyway! One of their tribe had seen Jesus in a dream who explained everything to him, he woke up and prayed - ie he repented and gave his life to Christ. From there he shared what he knew of Jesus with everyone, and they all now served Christ too.
You may well ask the question, why wouldn't God allow me or someone in Cathays, Roath or Canton to have such a dream, and the answer is this, God has provided more than enough evidence and opportunities for the people of Cardiff to repent, the fact is this, they all want to have 'my way' (or similar) played at their funerals, because they all know better :sherlock:

---

Seek medical attention, you're mentally ill.

Whichever way this war turns out, Russia have really shot themselves in the foot. They've spent the last 25 years building up a solid trade relationship with the West, and that's all been destroyed in just three weeks. No-one will be rushing to trade with them again, and they've also shown everyone that they aren't that great a fighting force, either. With one wayward decision, Russia has been set back decades.
Unless that was the intention all along. Too much Western influence, too many capitalist tendencies creeping in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by az city

Seek medical attention, you're mentally ill.

---

Well done, you smashed you're this time.
As for your world view - I guess it's a work in progress :thumbup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tforturton

Whichever way this war turns out, Russia have really shot themselves in the foot. They've spent the last 25 years building up a solid trade relationship with the West, and that's all been destroyed in just three weeks. No-one will be rushing to trade with them again, and they've also shown everyone that they aren't that great a fighting force, either. With one wayward decision, Russia has been set back decades.
Unless that was the intention all along. Too much Western influence, too many capitalist tendencies creeping in.

---

As every day goes by it looks more and more like a massive (and murderous) miscalculation by Putin, his circle and his backers.

There are plenty of conspiracy theorists on this board who have been claiming this (like the Covid 'plandemic') is all part of the New World Order master plan to enslave what is left of humanity after the vaccine cull.

But to me it is just more evidence that 'cock up' not conspiracy is usually the right answer.

Even if Putin gets some neutrality guarantee from Ukraine and NATO and gets agreement to autonomy for eastern Ukraine it will still be a monumental political, social and economic own goal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tforturton

Whichever way this war turns out, Russia have really shot themselves in the foot. They've spent the last 25 years building up a solid trade relationship with the West, and that's all been destroyed in just three weeks. No-one will be rushing to trade with them again, and they've also shown everyone that they aren't that great a fighting force, either. With one wayward decision, Russia has been set back decades.
Unless that was the intention all along. Too much Western influence, too many capitalist tendencies creeping in.

---

indeed, it shows if it wasn't for Russia's Nuclear warheads, Russia would have been defeated and the Ukraine on the march to retake Crimea

really does look like own goal with the world watching

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon1959

As every day goes by it looks more and more like a massive (and murderous) miscalculation by Putin, his circle and his backers.

There are plenty of conspiracy theorists on this board who have been claiming this (like the Covid 'plandemic') is all part of the New World Order master plan to enslave what is left of humanity after the vaccine cull.

But to me it is just more evidence that 'cock up' not conspiracy is usually the right answer.

Even if Putin gets some neutrality guarantee from Ukraine and NATO and gets agreement to autonomy for eastern Ukraine it will still be a monumental political, social and economic own goal.

---

depends on how he sells it to his people, I guess the line will be " We gave the west a bloody nose and taught them a lesson, the Ukraine will never join NATO, yeah we won "

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blue matt

indeed, it shows if it wasn't for Russia's Nuclear warheads, Russia would have been defeated and the Ukraine on the march to retake Crimea

really does look like own goal with the world watching



depends on how he sells it to his people, I guess the line will be " We gave the west a bloody nose and taught them a lesson, the Ukraine will never join NATO, yeah we won "

---

How long will the sanctions continue though? Say they march back out of Ukraine "triumphantly", and in 6 months time Russia's economy is completely devastated, it won't feel like much of a victory to even the most blinkered Russian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by delmbox

How long will the sanctions continue though? Say they march back out of Ukraine "triumphantly", and in 6 months time Russia's economy is completely devastated, it won't feel like much of a victory to even the most blinkered Russian

---

agreed, which is why the world needs to hold his nerve and keep the sanctions in place, till every person and his dog / cat knows what has happened

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tforturton

Whichever way this war turns out, Russia have really shot themselves in the foot. They've spent the last 25 years building up a solid trade relationship with the West, and that's all been destroyed in just three weeks. No-one will be rushing to trade with them again, and they've also shown everyone that they aren't that great a fighting force, either. With one wayward decision, Russia has been set back decades.
Unless that was the intention all along. Too much Western influence, too many capitalist tendencies creeping in.

---

I wonder if China will be the next to lose out on business? Not that they have actually done anything really wrong bar yet to condemn the Russians but will the west be wary of being reliant on countries that it cannot trust, like China? It’s not good to be dependent on them. I hear some firms are thinking of pulling out and moving manufacturing to places like India, where it’s still cheap but we have decent relationships with politically and historically.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goats

I wonder if China will be the next to lose out on business? Not that they have actually done anything really wrong bar yet to condemn the Russians but will the west be wary of being reliant on countries that it cannot trust, like China? It’s not good to be dependent on them. I hear some firms are thinking of pulling out and moving manufacturing to places like India, where it’s still cheap but we have decent relationships with politically and historically.

---

I doubt it, the sheer volume of things that are made in china would be practically impossible to move away from them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rjk

I doubt it, the sheer volume of things that are made in china would be practically impossible to move away from them.

---

I have to agree. Pretty much everything on the shelves of most department stores is made in China. They sewed that market up a long time ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monster munch

I have to agree. Pretty much everything on the shelves of most department stores is made in China. They sewed that market up a long time ago.

---

I agree, but seeing how quick things can change should we make ourselves a bit less reliant even if it takes 20 years

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goats

I agree, but seeing how quick things can change should we make ourselves a bit less reliant even if it takes 20 years

---

A Tweet here with a link to a good and pertinent article in The Financial Times.

https://twitter.com/KoriSchake/statu...fNAg273qQ&s=19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-AbK_m_GBg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tforturton

Whichever way this war turns out, Russia have really shot themselves in the foot. They've spent the last 25 years building up a solid trade relationship with the West, and that's all been destroyed in just three weeks. No-one will be rushing to trade with them again, and they've also shown everyone that they aren't that great a fighting force, either. With one wayward decision, Russia has been set back decades.
Unless that was the intention all along. Too much Western influence, too many capitalist tendencies creeping in.

---

I hope it does turn out that they've destroyed their trading relationships. Have a horrible feeling that lots of countries will start crawling back and trading with them quite soon after hostilities end. Hopefully that's just me being cynical, would be good to see these sanctions allowed to really take hold

Another Russian general bites the dust, Ukrainians intercepting messages to know where they are and then going for them. The Azov battalion took him out apparently…..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tforturton

Whichever way this war turns out, Russia have really shot themselves in the foot. They've spent the last 25 years building up a solid trade relationship with the West, and that's all been destroyed in just three weeks. No-one will be rushing to trade with them again, and they've also shown everyone that they aren't that great a fighting force, either. With one wayward decision, Russia has been set back decades.
Unless that was the intention all along. Too much Western influence, too many capitalist tendencies creeping in.

---

I said that the russian forces were not up to much earlier in this thread.
Full of hot wind.