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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
The paragraph I've quoted earlier in the thread suggests the club would not be able to profit from the gate receipts, but it's not entirely clear, so who knows?
I note that TNS's many European games this season included Europa Conference League clashes with Astana, Shamrock Rovers, Djurgaardens and NK Celje. I wonder what sort of crowds City would get for games against teams like those?
The whole thing is unclear for a number of reasons , some of which are
1. The club have agreed to enter the competition without any consultation with fans. Competition matters are specifically listed as matters which the club has agreed(in writing) to consult with the Fans Advisory Board with but they haven`t done so
2. Even if the above had been done , there has still been no clarity as to whether this will be a CCFC first team contest or one for the u21s. If the former, then this will put more fixture pressure on what is a limited first team squad. If the latter, is this acceptable to the FAW?
3. The limited information given out to date indicates that there will be little or no financial benefit to CCFC from entering this cup. Any prize money from Europe goes to the FAW not the club and , as you say, fixtures against minor clubs from countries most people would have to look up on a map are hardly likely to attract decent match attendances.
4. To even get to Europe we would have to beat teams who are currently stronger than us.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ninian1962
The whole thing is unclear for a number of reasons , some of which are
1. The club have agreed to enter the competition without any consultation with fans. Competition matters are specifically listed as matters which the club has agreed(in writing) to consult with the Fans Advisory Board with but they haven`t done so
2. Even if the above had been done , there has still been no clarity as to whether this will be a CCFC first team contest or one for the u21s. If the former, then this will put more fixture pressure on what is a limited first team squad. If the latter, is this acceptable to the FAW?
3. The limited information given out to date indicates that there will be little or no financial benefit to CCFC from entering this cup. Any prize money from Europe goes to the FAW not the club and , as you say, fixtures against minor clubs from countries most people would have to look up on a map are hardly likely to attract decent match attendances.
4. To even get to Europe we would have to beat teams who are currently stronger than us.
On point 2 I'm sure I read somewhere that we'd be guaranteeing fielding strong ie not u21 teams., so yes, additional fixture pressure.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Undercoverinwurzelland
On point 2 I'm sure I read somewhere that we'd be guaranteeing fielding strong ie not u21 teams., so yes, additional fixture pressure.
"As with the criteria for the EFL Trophy, they would be required to meet player experience standards to ensure they field a strong team."
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...opean-30768538
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
We do have a chance of qualifying if we win a cup and we've been in two finals since 2008. Bolton, Fulham, Leicester, Ipswich, Norwich and the like have all tasted European football, and deserved it too.
I just don't see the point in this. It cheapens it massively and it feels a lot like cheating. What's the point in qualifying for Europe in this way?
And if it means we can't qualify via the leagues and cups what are we doing it for? To become a bigger club and get promoted and then be a second class citizen in the top flight?
It's a mess
I agree. I cannot see why we are prepared to sacrifice our chance to qualify for Europe via the league and fa cups, as far fetched as that sounds lying 23rd in the championship. Only 12 years ago the jacks actually did and the year before we were a couple of penalty kicks away from doing the same. We would not have been entering the pre-qualifying round of the conference league in July (which will become our only ever option / route) but the europa league within touching distance of the group phase. Where’s all of our ambition gone. As JW says you start to wonder what the point is!
The FAW need to look elsewhere for improved revenues IMHO
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Barry Town saying that they were waiting for more info from the FAW and having given the idea their support yet as they're still waiting for the info.
https://x.com/BarryTownUnited/status...31926078365751
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Ironically it's the Welsh clubs that highlight the futility of getting to Europe via the cups.
Cardiff were the last team outside of the top flight to reach the FA Cup final in 2008 and in 2013 Swansea were the last team to win the League Cup that wasn't one of Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea. In the seasons since Swansea's win, Leicester are the only team outside the big 6 to win a domestic cup.
That's just 1 final out of the previous 22. The other 21 were won by just 5 different teams. On top of that, only 6 of those 22 finals involved a non big 6 team.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Can anyone tell me what benefits, if any, the Scottish Premiership also-rans such as Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs have gained in recent years from playing numerous low-grade European games against teams from small leagues throughout the continent?
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
Can anyone tell me what benefits, if any, the Scottish Premiership also-rans such as Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs have gained in recent years from playing numerous low-grade European games against teams from small leagues throughout the continent?
I don't think that there will be much support for this amongst City fan,unless it's from a selfish point of you in terms of a trip away to another country, or they're convinced by the extra revenue raised by the FAW. There doesn't seem to be any benefit both financially and on the field of play, unless someone wants to dress it up as a way of helping our 'Youngsters' develop... It all looks like nonsense to me.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
It sounds fun to me.
Lets see how good a poor championship team, an average championship team and a decent league one team is vs European teams.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
I don't think that there will be much support for this amongst City fan,unless it's from a selfish point of you in terms of a trip away to another country
You say that like it's a bad thing.
You don't think it's good experience for youngsters to be playing against senior teams? It might not just be youngsters but fringe players too which would make it more like the old reserves games, which would be more use than the U21 league.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Lone Gunman
This paragraph is confusing:
"Cardiff City, Newport County, Swansea City and Wrexham have agreed to exclude any profit derived by representing Wales in UEFA competitions for financial regulations in the English Football League or the English Premier League."
So are we seriously saying that the four league clubs are prepared to give up the possibility of qualifying for Europe via the Premier League, the FA Cup or the League Cup, and the obvious financial rewards that would come with such a qualification, in order to play in some tinpot Welsh competition that they cannot profit from?
This idea sounds worse every time I read about it.
This is absolutely mental, unless we can get cast iron guarantees from the EFL and PL that this won't affect us, and we can qualify for Europe through the English system as well, this should be a total non starter.
One look on social media tells you all you need to know what opposition fans think. Playing in the EFL gives welsh kids a fantastic opportunity to play at a far higher level than the Cymru Prem. For the good of welsh football, as well as CCFC, we have to stay in the EFL.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
You say that like it's a bad thing.
You don't think it's good experience for youngsters to be playing against senior teams? It might not just be youngsters but fringe players too which would make it more like the old reserves games, which would be more use than the U21 league.
We won't play youngsters. It'll be 4 games, and we'll almost certainly have to beat the Jacks in one of those games.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
You say that like it's a bad thing.
You don't think it's good experience for youngsters to be playing against senior teams? It might not just be youngsters but fringe players too which would make it more like the old reserves games, which would be more use than the U21 league.
Which bit am i saying like it's a bad thing? I don't believe that young players coming up against the runners up in the latvia will make an ounce of difference to their development. Jut bring back the old reserve league instead :thumbup:
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nobody's Rep
In fairness to Tan he did say (according to dalman so fair size pinch of salt needed) he still wants to take us to the premier league - maybe he doesn't realise the difference between the English and Welsh premier leagues 🤔
we wouldn't be top of a welsh PL
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Which bit am i saying like it's a bad thing?
Was just making a joke in favour of some fancy away trips.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
You say that like it's a bad thing.
You don't think it's good experience for youngsters to be playing against senior teams? It might not just be youngsters but fringe players too which would make it more like the old reserves games, which would be more use than the U21 league.
The ‘old reserves’ league was the Football Combination in the south & the Central League in the north. Great grounding for players, very often our reserves were facing better opponents than the first team, certainly when playing Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham etc. This proposed set up would be nowhere near that standard.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Absolutely an argument to be made we should be in the CPL and a league of say
Cardiff swansea wrexham newport merthyr colwyn bay TNS barry town bangor connahs quay penybont caernarfon cardiff met haverfordwest and bala appeals to some people. European football opportunities legitimately.
Theres an argument to be made for that.
Theres an argument for remaining in england and trying to progress in english competitions.
However id never be convinced any side should be allowed to play across 2 separate independent football nations.
All in. Or all out.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
This proposed set up would be nowhere near that standard.
I agree, but one of the criticisms of the U21 league is that it bears no resemblance to the seniors team, and with no old style reserve league on the agenda this would at least be something like it.
I think this is all quite intriguing and while there still seems to be things to iron out, I don't want to rain on our European Conference League winners parade.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
I agree, but one of the criticisms of the U21 league is that it bears no resemblance to the seniors team, and with no old style reserve league on the agenda this would at least be something like it.
I think this is all quite intriguing and while there still seems to be things to iron out, I don't want to rain on our European Conference League winners parade.
So the under 21s just carry on playing in the nathaniel mg cup as they already do?
Whats the boost for welsh football to watch our under 21s play v bala in leckwith?
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Undercoverinwurzelland
Good read this.
It says privately the EFL clubs are doubtful the FA will approve the plans.
The other efl clubs will be against it as are the EFL. Im sure the FA will listen to them more than the FAW.
This wont happen.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
So let me get this right.
16 clubs, 4 rounds and we'd have to win it to go through to the early conference rounds, and we do that for free?
So the final is Swansea Cardiff at theirs, who picks up the policing bill? Are bookings counted for the EFL? Will all the players need a FAW registration rather than EFL? As Wales' co-efficient is so low we'd surely be playing in the 2nd week of July, we don't work out our transfers until September!!!!
I can only assume S4C would show the games live, so why attend?
The conference league hurt a big squad like West Ham, its the travelling rather than just the games......And we do this for free?
Totally pointless
Anyway, we'd go out in the semi's so it would hurt the Jacks :hehe:
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Father Dougal
So the under 21s just carry on playing in the nathaniel mg cup as they already do?
Whats the boost for welsh football to watch our under 21s play v bala in leckwith?
No, it would be more akin to a reserve league fixture with a mix of youngsters and fringe players.
I imagine the boost to Welsh football is in the bigger picture.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
llan bluebird
So let me get this right.
16 clubs, 4 rounds and we'd have to win it to go through to the early conference rounds, and we do that for free?
So the final is Swansea Cardiff at theirs, who picks up the policing bill? Are bookings counted for the EFL? Will all the players need a FAW registration rather than EFL? As Wales' co-efficient is so low we'd surely be playing in the 2nd week of July, we don't work out our transfers until September!!!!
I can only assume S4C would show the games live, so why attend?
The conference league hurt a big squad like West Ham, its the travelling rather than just the games......And we do this for free?
Totally pointless
Anyway, we'd go out in the semi's so it would hurt the Jacks :hehe:
Why would bookings in an FAW competition carry over to an English FA competition? We're already registered as an FAW club as are our players as well, its why we need international clearance
The whole point from the FAWs point of view is for the EFL clubs to help raise the coefficient
I imagine West Ham fans will remember the Conference League season more fondly than when they finished 9th or whatever
Its a chance for us to play in Europe and help strengthen Welsh football, sounds good to me
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
IMO the long-term aim of the FAW is to get the Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham and Newport to play in the League of Wales.
It'd not cler how they would force us down that route, but this would be a small step to achieving that.
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Re: Still don't like this idea.
So which players does Noel Mooney envisage will be playing in both his competition and the European Conference league?
If a mix of youth/ under 21s/fringe first team play in the FAW competition, then will they also play in the European Conference, or will the first team play?
The more I hear about it, the more I don't like it. If Mooneys reasoning is to boost grass roots football, then the success of the national teams should be enough.
