Giggs on the brink of Wales appointment

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

This point is gonna be batted back and fiorth like a tennis ball, because of your failure to understand the point I’m making.
I’m not doubting Giggs ability as a player and all the trophies he has won. He did it surrounded by top class players though, with little “winning mentality” when it came to his country.
He was shit scared of Fergie, and didn’t have the balls to stand upto him.
Anyone can have winning mentality at a top club, in there comfort zone.
Bellamy on the other hand was a footballing nomad, who showed his desire to win everywhere he played, Be it Liverpool, Celtic, Man City or Norwich.
Ok, he has no where near as many trophies as Giggs, but he is his own man, backs down to nobody, and loved playing for his country, and gave 100% for clubs and country.

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I dont think players who win 9 leagues in 11 years, and 13 in 20 do so by being in a "comfort zone".

Theres a difference between someone having a winning metality and actually winning things, and someone who gives 100% and is desperate to win but never wins anything. .

Comparing Ryan Giggs and Craig Bellamys winning mentality is like comparing Phil Taylor to Mervyn King.

Bellamy was a football nomad because he had no respect for his peers and chased the pound note. He was either bombed out because the hassle of managing him outweighed what he produced on the pitch, or he forced a move for money.

He couldnt even respect the great Sir Bobby Robson and even took a golf club to a team mates legs ffs.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Why do you think he would stop doing that if he had got the job? After all, it's hardly as if the team he'd be managing was playing Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday is it. I would hope that he would have still wanted to be involved in the other age groups if he had become manager.

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Trollope's a cracking coach, crap manager.

We know Osian is doing a great job at the moment, where that's his sole focus. Appoint him manager, we risk his attention being diverted. I'd prefer him staying there, arguably a more valuable job than managing the national side.

Giggs is not for me, a great player does not always make a good manager, besides being a horrible person ( I know that does not matter), I do not think he is the man for the job. There are a lot of good managers out there but the pre-historic FAW you know the organization who wheel in all the old fogies in wheelchairs when they need to carry a vote but want a Welshman for the job even if he is not as good as a non Welshman. What the FAW need is new blood who can take our national team forward, I am sorry to say that will never happen with this load of backward thinking imbeciles. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

I dont think players who win 9 leagues in 11 years, and 13 in 20 do so by being in a "comfort zone".

Theres a difference between someone having a winning metality and actually winning things, and someone who gives 100% and is desperate to win but never wins anything. .

Comparing Ryan Giggs and Craig Bellamys winning mentality is like comparing Phil Taylor to Mervyn King.

Bellamy was a football nomad because he had no respect for his peers and chased the pound note. He was either bombed out because the hassle of managing him outweighed what he produced on the pitch, or he forced a move for money.

He couldnt even respect the great Sir Bobby Robson and even took a golf club to a team mates legs ffs.

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If Giggs started at Norwich, he'd be chasing the money too. Giggs was at the biggest club in Europe during his time after all.

The average age of the FAW board is something like 65. Not great is it?

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Originally Posted by Zenith

The average age of the FAW board is something like 65. Not great is it?

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Suppose their wives would be too old for Giggs then. Thank god they don't want Rooney...

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Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life

If Giggs started at Norwich, he'd be chasing the money too. Giggs was at the biggest club in Europe during his time after all.

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If youre auntie had bollocks she would be your uncle.

Giggs was winning things at Man U and Bellamy never played for anyone decent for a reason. :shrug:

Giggs was at Man U because he was a winner from a young age, long before he broke into the first team.

How many of Giggs critics attend Wales Friendlies or even Wales games. 20 thousand missed the last one against Panama including Ramsey who Wenger pulled out because of a game at the weekend.Friendlies are to give fringe players a chance not for our top players who have extra games in European competitions. We have only had three World class players in my lifetime John Charles,Giggs and Gareth Bale.All missed Welsh games due to other Club commitments so give the guy a chance!

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

If youre auntie had bollocks she would be your uncle.

Giggs was winning things at Man U and Bellamy never played for anyone decent for a reason. :shrug:

Giggs was at Man U because he was a winner from a young age, long before he broke into the first team.

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Youth level? Look how many came from that group.
Senior level? Man Yoo best club in Europe for most of his career there.
International level? Performances nowhere near as good as at Man Yoo - because he couldn't elevate players.

Bellamy got on at people due to wanting perfection. Giggs motivating people? Hmm.

I'm absolutely devastated that the choice is Giggs, i can only assume that the panel was dazzled by his status and glittering playing career.

I never really like Giggs in his Wales playing days, as a fan who was at every game to see him not turn up for Wales, but then play for Manchester United on the weekend was a constant betrayal. The decision sent the message that the games were not important and it spread through the squad, and then to the fan base, why should we pay our money when the star attraction cannot be bothered.

Giggs starts this job with a lot less credit with the fans than some former players will get. I also get the impression that Giggs wasnt a popular member of the squad that he played with for Wales. Gabbidon suggests on FOF, that he didn't particularly intergrate himself with the other players.

That being said you would imagine that he could inspire the next generation coming through, and the younger fan will have less of the bad memories associated with him than the middle aged, who carry the grudge. You would hope he is a capable manager because that reputation will not last long if things start badly.

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Originally Posted by Ianto13

How many of Giggs critics attend Wales Friendlies or even Wales games. 20 thousand missed the last one against Panama including Ramsey who Wenger pulled out because of a game at the weekend.Friendlies are to give fringe players a chance not for our top players who have extra games in European competitions. We have only had three World class players in my lifetime John Charles,Giggs and Gareth Bale.All missed Welsh games due to other Club commitments so give the guy a chance!

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Giggs routinely missed games - set the example. After he started that others did too. I remember a tour, think it was USA where 17 international players all pulled out.

Giggs has refused to apply for lower league jobs - below him. Turned down Man Yoo u23 job. Was rejected by Swansea ( yes, that was fixed anyway but still spat the dummy and petulantly claimed he turned them down ).

At least Bellamy has looked to work his way up.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

If youre auntie had bollocks she would be your uncle.

Giggs was winning things at Man U and Bellamy never played for anyone decent for a reason. :shrug:

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Surely it doesn't matter who the better or more successful player was?

This piece

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/f...spite-14154068

gives the definite impression that Bellamy came over really well at his interview and that the decision to appoint Giggs was based on his achievements as a player. I appreciate that it is hard for any young managerial wannabe to build a reputation for themselves when they have had very little chance to do so (I disregard those four matches Giggs took charge of in 13/14 at Man United because they prove nothing either way), but the members of the Class of 92 and the players Ferguson signed around that time (e.g. Paul Ince) have not enjoyed much managerial success between them when they have had a go at the job, so all that playing success did little to make them managerial successes. Off the top of my head, I can think of Mark Hughes and Steve Bruce who have made decent managerial careers from Man United sides managed by Alex Ferguson, but they were of an older generation to Giggs - he might turn out to be a good manager of Wales, but I must say that when I hear Bellamy and Giggs talk about the game, I know which one I would be more inclined to choose if I were hiring a manager.

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Originally Posted by Ianto13

How many of Giggs critics attend Wales Friendlies or even Wales games. 20 thousand missed the last one against Panama including Ramsey who Wenger pulled out because of a game at the weekend.Friendlies are to give fringe players a chance not for our top players who have extra games in European competitions. We have only had three World class players in my lifetime John Charles,Giggs and Gareth Bale.All missed Welsh games due to other Club commitments so give the guy a chance!

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You can't compare Bale and Giggs when it comes to missing Welsh games for their clubs.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

This thread is bananas. The most decorated player in British football is not a perfectionist, even though he managed himself both mentally and physically to play and win trophies for over 20 years at the very top. In winning all those trophies he still does not have as much of a winning mentality as someone whos won a measly league cup, and only won the many, many trophies he did over a 20 year period because of the players he played with, even though he was the one common donominator in all of Fergies success and he won more than any of his team mates. :hehe:

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It's a cracker isn't it.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

If his international career had consisted of two distinctive phases then you may have had a point about Giggs looking to prolong his career, but he missed plenty of games with "hamstring injuries" well before he was an age when he would have to consider such things.

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Prolonged his United career :thumb:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

If his international career had consisted of two distinctive phases then you may have had a point about Giggs looking to prolong his career, but he missed plenty of games with "hamstring injuries" well before he was an age when he would have to consider such things.

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Not rushing to Giggs' defence, but hamstring injuries aren't an age thing. It's more to do with explosive acceleration. Faster players tend to suffer, not older ones.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Prolonged his United career :thumb:

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So you're saying that when he was missing games for us in his teens and early twenties, he was doing it to prolong his club career?

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Originally Posted by lardy

Not rushing to Giggs' defence, but hamstring injuries aren't an age thing. It's more to do with explosive acceleration. Faster players tend to suffer, not older ones.

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True. It's just that most people query the magical way his injuries conveniently healed within days to play for Man Yoo.

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Originally Posted by lardy

Not rushing to Giggs' defence, but hamstring injuries aren't an age thing. It's more to do with explosive acceleration. Faster players tend to suffer, not older ones.

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Not doubting that, but I put hamstring injuries in inverted commas because, invariably, they had healed in time for him to play for Man United three or four days after the Wales game he had cried off from.

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Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life

True. It's just that most people query the magical way his injuries conveniently healed within days to play for Man Yoo.

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I'm not disputing that, they weren't even suspect - it was even more blatant than that. But he was exactly the kind of player susceptible to hamstring issues.

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Originally Posted by lardy

I'm not disputing that, they weren't even suspect - it was even more blatant than that. But he was exactly the kind of player susceptible to hamstring issues.

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Agreed. People would have had more sympathy if genuine.

As John Hallworth showed, there are certain other ways to get groin/hamstring injuries too ( allegedly ).

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

I dont think players who win 9 leagues in 11 years, and 13 in 20 do so by being in a "comfort zone".

Theres a difference between someone having a winning metality and actually winning things, and someone who gives 100% and is desperate to win but never wins anything. .

Comparing Ryan Giggs and Craig Bellamys winning mentality is like comparing Phil Taylor to Mervyn King.

Bellamy was a football nomad because he had no respect for his peers and chased the pound note. He was either bombed out because the hassle of managing him outweighed what he produced on the pitch, or he forced a move for money.

He couldnt even respect the great Sir Bobby Robson and even took a golf club to a team mates legs ffs.

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Was it Giggs or Ferguson that had the winning mentality?

Did OGS have it? did Gary Neville? Beckham? Keane?

Well of course, at least visually, Keane did but none of those Man Utd players have gone on to be great leaders of others - the best is Steve Bruce who manages in The Championship and no top Premier League club has even had a pint on him

It’s a complete lottery with the choices the FAW has/had with Osian the only one with any coaching pedigree at all (unless you count Joke City).

To me what got Coleman there (apart from Bale) was his passion about being Welsh - he is of course a Jack just like Hartson so did have a battle with Is bluebirds (one in particular 😀).

I can’t imagine Giggs using Bale’s quote at the euros about all he needed was the dragon on his chest as motivation, whereas I can pictures Bellamy doing and saying exactly the same thing

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Surely it doesn't matter who the better or more successful player was?

This piece

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/f...spite-14154068

gives the definite impression that Bellamy came over really well at his interview and that the decision to appoint Giggs was based on his achievements as a player. I appreciate that it is hard for any young managerial wannabe to build a reputation for themselves when they have had very little chance to do so (I disregard those four matches Giggs took charge of in 13/14 at Man United because they prove nothing either way), but the members of the Class of 92 and the players Ferguson signed around that time (e.g. Paul Ince) have not enjoyed much managerial success between them when they have had a go at the job, so all that playing success did little to make them managerial successes. Off the top of my head, I can think of Mark Hughes and Steve Bruce who have made decent managerial careers from Man United sides managed by Alex Ferguson, but they were of an older generation to Giggs - he might turn out to be a good manager of Wales, but I must say that when I hear Bellamy and Giggs talk about the game, I know which one I would be more inclined to choose if I were hiring a manager.

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It does matter when some people are arguing that Bellars has more of a winning mentality than Giggs and that Giggs only won what he did because he was surrounded by better players than Bellamy, completely ignoring the fact Giggs was a far, far better player than Bellamy.

I think too much credance is being given to this WOL story by people who usually pour scorn on WOL stories. Just because Bellamy interviewed well it doesnt mean Giggs interviewed badly. Obviously not as he got the job?!?! It could be the FAWs way of praising Bellamy so not to burn bridges with him as no doubt he can be of use to Welsh football if not now, then in the future.

I wouldnt have had either of them as manager. I would rather Roberts out of those interviewed and I dont know why we are restricting ourselves to a Welsh manager. Rob Phillips suggested Michael Laudrup and I think that is a good shout.

As has already been suggested I would rather Bellamy carry on with our youngsters with the view to taking over from Warnock. Much the same as Gerrard is doing at Liverpool.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Surely it doesn't matter who the better or more successful player was?

This piece

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/f...spite-14154068

gives the definite impression that Bellamy came over really well at his interview and that the decision to appoint Giggs was based on his achievements as a player. I appreciate that it is hard for any young managerial wannabe to build a reputation for themselves when they have had very little chance to do so (I disregard those four matches Giggs took charge of in 13/14 at Man United because they prove nothing either way), but the members of the Class of 92 and the players Ferguson signed around that time (e.g. Paul Ince) have not enjoyed much managerial success between them when they have had a go at the job, so all that playing success did little to make them managerial successes. Off the top of my head, I can think of Mark Hughes and Steve Bruce who have made decent managerial careers from Man United sides managed by Alex Ferguson, but they were of an older generation to Giggs - he might turn out to be a good manager of Wales, but I must say that when I hear Bellamy and Giggs talk about the game, I know which one I would be more inclined to choose if I were hiring a manager.

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Fergie players who became decent managers - I'd like to add Gordon Strachan to the list. Mark Robins is also doing a decent enough job in the lower leagues.

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Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton

Was it Giggs or Ferguson that had the winning mentality?

Did OGS have it? did Gary Neville? Beckham? Keane?

Well of course, at least visually, Keane did but none of those Man Utd players have gone on to be great leaders of others - the best is Steve Bruce who manages in The Championship and no top Premier League club has even had a pint on him

It’s a complete lottery with the choices the FAW has/had with Osian the only one with any coaching pedigree at all (unless you count Joke City).

To me what got Coleman there (apart from Bale) was his passion about being Welsh - he is of course a Jack just like Hartson so did have a battle with Is bluebirds (one in particular ��).

I can’t imagine Giggs using Bale’s quote at the euros about all he needed was the dragon on his chest as motivation, whereas I can pictures Bellamy doing and saying exactly the same thing

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They all had it. They were all winners. With the amount of trophies they won thats not just down the manager, the players have to have the same mentality. With all that they won, I dont see how anyone can argue any different.

Wether they go on to have a good management careers is another matter, complete seperate entity to wether they had the winning mentality. It all depends on the environment in which they are allowed to manage.

Since the Premier League and the money involved its fashionable to employ foreign coaches, especially in the top jobs. The premier league and Sky Sports have made players, British players in particular, very, very wealthy and they dont need to have the stress of a managers job. Look at the money Neville, Carragher and Henry are earning at Sky. Why swap that for grey hair and ageing in dog years? Jose Mourinho was the picture of health when he first arrived in this country, very handsome man (not in a gay way). 15 years later he looks half dead.

I applaud the likes of Giggs, Bellamy, Gerrard.etc for looking to go into management when they dont have to. Theyve all got TV work and it would be far easier for them to go down that route.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

It does matter when some people are arguing that Bellars has more of a winning mentality than Giggs and that Giggs only won what he did because he was surrounded by better players than Bellamy, completely ignoring the fact Giggs was a far, far better player than Bellamy.

I think too much credance is being given to this WOL story by people who usually pour scorn on WOL stories. Just because Bellamy interviewed well it doesnt mean Giggs interviewed badly. Obviously not as he got the job?!?! It could be the FAWs way of praising Bellamy so not to burn bridges with him as no doubt he can be of use to Welsh football if not now, then in the future.

I wouldnt have had either of them as manager. I would rather Roberts out of those interviewed and I dont know why we are restricting ourselves to a Welsh manager. Rob Phillips suggested Michael Laudrup and I think that is a good shout.

As has already been suggested I would rather Bellamy carry on with our youngsters with the view to taking over from Warnock. Much the same as Gerrard is doing at Liverpool.

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Laudrup would have been a great choice - fair play to Rob Phillips on that one. There is no doubt Giggs has a winning mentality, I just find him a cold person who has a high level of self-interest. I'll be interested to hear what he says in the press conference, will he talk about the youth teams for example, and whether he is happy with the prospects coming through (apart from the obvious ones like Woodburn)? How about his backroom staff? Even little things like - does he talk about Wales in an abstract way rather than a "We/Us" language.

Ryan Giggs - an absolutely phenomenal football player, but also one of the most uninspiring people I have ever heard talking about football.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

They all had it. They were all winners. With the amount of trophies they won thats not just down the manager, the players have to have the same mentality. With all that they won, I dont see how anyone can argue any different.

Wether they go on to have a good management careers is another matter, complete seperate entity to wether they had the winning mentality. It all depends on the environment in which they are allowed to manage.

Since the Premier League and the money involved its fashionable to employ foreign coaches, especially in the top jobs. The premier league and Sky Sports have made players, British players in particular, very, very wealthy and they dont need to have the stress of a managers job. Look at the money Neville, Carragher and Henry are earning at Sky. Why swap that for grey hair and ageing in dog years? Jose Mourinho was the picture of health when he first arrived in this country, very handsome man (not in a gay way). 15 years later he looks half dead.

I applaud the likes of Giggs, Bellamy, Gerrard.etc for looking to go into management when they dont have to. Theyve all got TV work and it would be far easier for them to go down that route.

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Players from the PL era are probably wealthy enough to not have to work ever again once they stop playing. I always thought that managers would start coming from lower-league playing careers as the PL millionaires would retire to an island somewhere. It is impressive that football is such an important part of their lives that they simply can't give it up.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Ryan Giggs - an absolutely phenomenal football player, but also one of the most uninspiring people I have ever heard talking about football.

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This.

Being a great player has nothing to do with becoming a great manager.

Bobby Charlton and Bobby Moore were both rubbish.

Giggs might prove to be the same.

Paul Scholes to replace Osian Roberts as assistant manager?

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Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton

Was it Giggs or Ferguson that had the winning mentality?

Did OGS have it? did Gary Neville? Beckham? Keane?

Well of course, at least visually, Keane did but none of those Man Utd players have gone on to be great leaders of others - the best is Steve Bruce who manages in The Championship and no top Premier League club has even had a pint on him

It’s a complete lottery with the choices the FAW has/had with Osian the only one with any coaching pedigree at all (unless you count Joke City).

To me what got Coleman there (apart from Bale) was his passion about being Welsh - he is of course a Jack just like Hartson so did have a battle with Is bluebirds (one in particular ��).

I can’t imagine Giggs using Bale’s quote at the euros about all he needed was the dragon on his chest as motivation, whereas I can pictures Bellamy doing and saying exactly the same thing

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During the years in the doldrums, I always thought Wales should be run more as a club side. It was difficult, though, when so many players (including Giggs) withdrew from training camps. Can you remember that tournament involving Malta, Tunisia and some other country? Wales had to call up Karl Ready ffs - there was no hint of togetherness.

Now, we get fewer players pulling out, largely due to the lack of friendlies, and using training camps instead. I hope that continues, but the FAW know they can make some decent money through friendlies and maybe Giggs is happy to have friendlies instead of training camps. If Wales go back down the friendlies route, I'm concerned that there will be less appetite for players travelling to places and risking injuries, and there goes the club spirit that Wales currently enjoys.

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Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life

Youth level? Look how many came from that group.
Senior level? Man Yoo best club in Europe for most of his career there.
International level? Performances nowhere near as good as at Man Yoo - because he couldn't elevate players.

Bellamy got on at people due to wanting perfection. Giggs motivating people? Hmm.

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And of those that come through Giggs broke in to the team first, and stayed longer than anyonelse.

He cant be blamed for some of the awful rubbish he had to play with. Bellamy didnt exactly inspire Wales to do well as a player either.

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Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanton

I can’t imagine Giggs using Bale’s quote at the euros about all he needed was the dragon on his chest as motivation, whereas I can pictures Bellamy doing and saying exactly the same thing

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Bellamy is the natural heir to Gary Speed's legacy, and with Osian Roberts as No.2 there would have been minimal disruption.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

I dont think players who win 9 leagues in 11 years, and 13 in 20 do so by being in a "comfort zone".

Theres a difference between someone having a winning metality and actually winning things, and someone who gives 100% and is desperate to win but never wins anything. .

Comparing Ryan Giggs and Craig Bellamys winning mentality is like comparing Phil Taylor to Mervyn King.

Bellamy was a football nomad because he had no respect for his peers and chased the pound note. He was either bombed out because the hassle of managing him outweighed what he produced on the pitch, or he forced a move for money.

He couldnt even respect the great Sir Bobby Robson and even took a golf club to a team mates legs ffs.

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I don't understand how you can dismiss Craig Bellamy's winning mentality. Sure he hasn't been at the best club in the country for 2 decades. Was that down to a lack of winning mentality or not having the same talent as a youngster? Bellamy worked up through the ranks during his career and was arguably at the peak of his powers during the second half of his career. He's not had the fortune to have had Giggs' talent, where he was always going to be a regular at Old Trafford.

I would suggest that Giggs' success came down to him being an unbelievably gifted footballer. He was doing things on the pitch as a teenager that Bellamy wasn't capable of, that's a certainty. I disagreed with the comfort zone comment and agree with you that Giggs still needed to work hard at Old Trafford to keep his place. However, I reckon to suggest Giggs has more of a winning mentality than a guy who probably had to work harder in his career to climb the ladder (then got close to the top in the latter stages of his career) is nonsense.

Give me someone who strives to make themselves better and will push themselves any day of the week. Given a darting analogy, take Peter Wright. Someone who, until he made his only world final, you'd never have considered for a major tournament. He hasn't the natural talent of someone like MVG or Taylor but has been absolutely focused on what he wants from the sport and how much work he needs to put into it to get where he wants to be. He still won't make world number 1 or world champion (in my view), but it won't be for his will to win.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I don't understand how you can dismiss Craig Bellamy's winning mentality. Sure he hasn't been at the best club in the country for 2 decades. Was that down to a lack of winning mentality or not having the same talent as a youngster? Bellamy worked up through the ranks during his career and was arguably at the peak of his powers during the second half of his career. He's not had the fortune to have had Giggs' talent, where he was always going to be a regular at Old Trafford.

I would suggest that Giggs' success came down to him being an unbelievably gifted footballer. He was doing things on the pitch as a teenager that Bellamy wasn't capable of, that's a certainty. I disagreed with the comfort zone comment and agree with you that Giggs still needed to work hard at Old Trafford to keep his place. However, I reckon to suggest Giggs has more of a winning mentality than a guy who probably had to work harder in his career to climb the ladder (then got close to the top in the latter stages of his career) is nonsense.

Give me someone who strives to make themselves better and will push themselves any day of the week. Given a darting analogy, take Peter Wright. Someone who, until he made his only world final, you'd never have considered for a major tournament. He hasn't the natural talent of someone like MVG or Taylor but has been absolutely focused on what he wants from the sport and how much work he needs to put into it to get where he wants to be. He still won't make world number 1 or world champion (in my view), but it won't be for his will to win.

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Another one mistaking effort and drive for a winning mentality.

Ive stated my opinion, im not repeating myself.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So you're saying that when he was missing games for us in his teens and early twenties, he was doing it to prolong his club career?

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I'm 32. I don't know his whole history for club and country, I'm basing my opi ion on his layer years I guess.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So you're saying that when he was missing games for us in his teens and early twenties, he was doing it to prolong his club career?

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The WaRrIoR is getting a little confused.

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Originally Posted by ccfc_is_my_life

Suppose their wives would be too old for Giggs then. Thank god they don't want Rooney...

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Another one mistaking effort and drive for a winning mentality.

Ive stated my opinion, im not repeating myself.

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In which case, how do you assume Giggs has a winning mentality? Couldn't he equally just have been a part of an excellent team that won a staggering amount. If this creates a winning mentality, then how can that be replicated? It can't, unless Wales keep winning. If your argument is that Giggs has a winning mentality from winning, then the only way Wales can have a winning mentality is from winning, not from Giggs. Did Sir Alex Ferguson have that winning mentality as a footballer? Do top footballers who have a winning mentality usually go on to make excellent managers?

I'm not suggesting whether I think you are right or wrong, I don't understand where you are coming from.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

In which case, how do you assume Giggs has a winning mentality? Couldn't he equally just have been a part of an excellent team that won a staggering amount. If this creates a winning mentality, then how can that be replicated? It can't, unless Wales keep winning. If your argument is that Giggs has a winning mentality from winning, then the only way Wales can have a winning mentality is from winning, not from Giggs. Did Sir Alex Ferguson have that winning mentality as a footballer? Do top footballers who have a winning mentality usually go on to make excellent managers?

I'm not suggesting whether I think you are right or wrong, I don't understand where you are coming from.

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Phil Neville, Paul Ince and Roy Keane also have that Man Yoo winning mentality.

Shit at football management mind.