Drakeford banned from one hundred pubs

BBC News - 'Covid killed my wife - so I'm taking part in a vaccine trial'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55168292

56 year old

Dead

Shouldn't we be worrying about everyone?

I can assure you there are more patients in hospital down here in West Wales than there were in April. The latest lockdown both in Wales and the rest of the UK are there not only to reduce deaths but to try to stop hospitals being overwhelmed with cases.
I dont get this idea its ok as it's only 1% die. Every death is a tragedy, whether your 19 or 99.
Covid is a nasty disease, and the attitude of some is showing a selfishness that I personally find disappointing.

Drakeford being ridiculed on TV this morning by Gyles Brandreth, who I used to really dislike but now I find rather funny..

"I'm rather fascinated by MD, he has touch of the hammer House of horror about him".
"Has he ever smiled?"
"Like Oliver Cromwell trying to cancel Christmas"
"Has a rather Lagubrious manner and seems to take delight in bringing bad news"
"Let's close the pubs at 10, 9, 8, 7, 6..."

It would have been hilarious if it wasn't so true.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Wouldn't the figure based on population rise as more people die?

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Naturally. Will the figure reach 0.2% or greater before 31/12/2020? I hope not and I doubt it.

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Originally Posted by Former Labour leader

I dont get this idea its ok as it's only 1% die.

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It's not 1%, it's 0.1%. A tenth of a percent.

Who has said it's OK if only 1% die?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

If my calculations are correct, then so far in 2020 approximately 0.1% of the Welsh public has died within 28 days of a positive Covid-19 test, and we know full well that many of those people almost certainly didn't die as a result of the effects of the virus itself (although there are others who probably did die in such circumstances but who either weren't tested or whose deaths weren't properly recorded).

I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist or a Covid-19 denier, but I've reached the stage where I'm now absolutely convinced that the ongoing steps being taken to tackle the virus are excessive and disproportionate to the risk it poses for the vast majority of the population.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I agree entirely.
Add to that the point that of those 0.1% who unfortunately have died it is well known that the vast majority were either, already suffering from some underlying illness/complaint, or in a care home or a serving member of a NHS facility or over 80 years of age. (Or a combination of 2 or more of these things). If you remove these from the 0.1% i wonder what the figure would be.
So we know the people whom we really need to protect, and if much greater effort was put into protecting them and helping them then the rest could get on with their lives.

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There have been 60,000+ excess deaths in the uk this year compared to any other year and that's with restrictions. The restrictions are to stop hospitals being overwhelmed or people who aren't as at risk to the virus will die.

Does it really matter if the people who died this year were old and had underlying conditions, should they just be written off?

0.1% is still a high percentage of people to be dying too whatever metric you're measuring.

I think just focussing on the deaths completely ignores how the virus spread, how the virus affects people (especially in higher viral doses) and what the consequences of the health system being overwhelmed are.

We all want to go back to normal but in the grand scheme of things we've all made the smallest sacrifice in history for less than a year and things will soon be going back to normal.

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Originally Posted by Former Labour leader

I can assure you there are more patients in hospital down here in West Wales than there were in April. The latest lockdown both in Wales and the rest of the UK are there not only to reduce deaths but to try to stop hospitals being overwhelmed with cases.
I dont get this idea its ok as it's only 1% die. Every death is a tragedy, whether your 19 or 99.
Covid is a nasty disease, and the attitude of some is showing a selfishness that I personally find disappointing.

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Well said, the most conservative of the three sets of official figures show 60,000 plus people have died of the virus this year, that's a full house in the Emirates Stadium or the population of places like Wrexham, Hereford and Widnes which I would say is a very large number by any standards.

Perfectly healthy people have died from covid

Its effects can vary from person to person

All of us have some kind of underlying condition to some extent

What if one of the posters on here in say his early fifties dies from covid leaving a wife and kids ?

Mass gatherings are where this thing grows , for a few years we are going to have to do without live football, holidays to Spain and getting pissed up on a Friday night . TOOL were going to tour Europe, thars me fecked .

Deal with it ff sake

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Well said, the most conservative of the three sets of official figures show 60,000 plus people have died of the virus this year, that's a full house in the Emirates Stadium or the population of places like Wrexham, Hereford and Widnes which I would say is a very large number by any standards.

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Died of the virus? Or died with the virus? Or died within 28 days of a positive test for the virus? Or is that figure the total of UK excess deaths of all causes during 2020?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I think just focussing on the deaths completely ignores how the virus spread, how the virus affects people (especially in higher viral doses) and what the consequences of the health system being overwhelmed are.

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I can't speak for xsnaggle (thank God), but I'm not focussing on deaths and I'm certainly not ignoring the consequences of either the virus itself or the measures that are being used to combat it.

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Originally Posted by Former Labour leader;5141 have829

I can assure you there are more patients in hospital down here in West Wales than there were in April. The latest lockdown both in Wales and the rest of the UK are there not only to reduce deaths but to try to stop hospitals being overwhelmed with cases.
I dont get this idea its ok as it's only 1% die. Every death is a tragedy, whether your 19 or 99.
Covid is a nasty disease, and the attitude of some is showing a selfishness that I personally find disappointing.

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Spot on former Jeremy, I couldn't agree more

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Died of the virus? Or died with the virus? Or died within 28 days of a positive test for the virus? Or is that figure the total of UK excess deaths of all causes during 2020?

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60,000 more deaths than we get on average. Unless it's a coincidence then it has to be down to covid.

That's with restrictions, we got a glimpse in April of how the health service could get overwhelmed. With no restrictions it would be worse.

There's definitely an argument to be made that the restrictions don't make sense (I would shut the pubs before banning serving alcohol) but I don't think they're more than we need.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

It's not 1%, it's 0.1%. A tenth of a percent.

Who has said it's OK if only 1% die?

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But it's not 0.1% of Infected people who have died, it's approx 0.1% of the entire UK population. I don't know what the current number of infections are but I doubt there are as many as circa 6 million. If that were the case the true death rate would reach 1%.

Also, if you strip out the number of children in the country, who don't appear to suffer I'll effects from the virus then the true adult damage is higher again.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

60,000 more deaths than we get on average. Unless it's a coincidence then it has to be down to covid.

That's with restrictions, we got a glimpse in April of how the health service could get overwhelmed. With no restrictions it would be worse.

There's definitely an argument to be made that the restrictions don't make sense (I would shut the pubs before banning serving alcohol) but I don't think they're more than we need.

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Lockdowns and restrictions keep the death rate low.

People say the death rate is low so we don't need lockdowns and restrictions.

:shrug:

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Died of the virus? Or died with the virus? Or died within 28 days of a positive test for the virus? Or is that figure the total of UK excess deaths of all causes during 2020?

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This is a particularly shitty attitude. It attempts to trivialize the disease and its effects and is a gateway to denial. You're basically accusing an entity of inflating figures for some perceived gain. Why?

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

This is a particularly shitty attitude. It attempts to trivialize the disease and its effects and is a gateway to denial. You're basically accusing an entity of inflating figures for some perceived gain. Why?

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I'm doing absolutely nothing of the sort.

People are dying of all sorts of causes throughout the UK and a percentage of them are dying because they are not getting the treatment they need due to the way in which the Covid-19 pandemic has and is being handled. Senior healthcare officials, medical experts and politicians have regularly stated as much and have appealed to people to continue to use the health services they need but are currently avoiding because of Covid-19.

I've recently had treatment for a health problem that required visits to both my GP and the Heath Hospital. The number of people in both places (or rather the lack of them) was staggering by comparison to the numbers that were present when I last visited those places in March.

I have maintained from the early stages that the true effect of the pandemic in terms of deaths is the excess deaths figures, as they are not narrowed down to any one cause. I think that distinction is a very important one.

As for having a shitty attitude, that accusation is more than a little ironic coming from you.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

.....we got a glimpse in April of how the health service could get overwhelmed.

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We got a glimpse in April of how badly unprepared the UK government and its health service was for a pandemic of this nature, and we also got a glimpse of how poorly such a situation could be managed when it did happen. I'd like to think the situation is very different now. Furthermore, the population is behaving entirely differently to how it was before the first spike, and that's been the case for more than eight months.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

We got a glimpse in April of how badly unprepared the UK government and its health service was for a pandemic of this nature, and we also got a glimpse of how poorly such a situation could be managed when it did happen. I'd like to think the situation is very different now. Furthermore, the population is behaving entirely differently to how it was before the first spike, and that's been the case for more than eight months.

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Yet our excess deaths every week are way above the usual averages.

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Originally Posted by lardy

Lockdowns and restrictions keep the death rate low.

People say the death rate is low so we don't need lockdowns and restrictions.

:shrug:

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I don't get the trivialising it by saying they had underlying conditions and it wasn't the covid that does it. It's someone getting shot and dying of a heart attack and concluding that bullets aren't that dangerous.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I don't get the trivialising it by saying they had underlying conditions and it wasn't the covid that does it. It's someone getting shot and dying of a heart attack and concluding that bullets aren't that dangerous.

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The same people usually accept the flu death numbers as being genuine when they compare, even though they will be just as flawed.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Yet our excess deaths every week are way above the usual averages.

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Way above every week? Is that a fact? Let's say it is (although it isn't). Do all of those people dying have the virus and is the virus itself the cause of all of those deaths?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Way above every week? Is that a fact? Let's say it is (although it isn't). Do all of those people dying have the virus and is the virus itself the cause of all of those deaths?

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Yep every week. Why are there so many more this year if not related to the virus?

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Originally Posted by lardy

The same people usually accept the flu death numbers as being genuine when they compare, even though they will be just as flawed.

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Exactly, they're flawed numbers but the excess deaths is surely a good metric.

Was just speaking to the nurse in my surgery. Every member of staff had it and the surgery was closed for a fortnight.
She was fit and healthy but she had been seriously ill with the virus. Make no mistake, you may not die but it can be a very unpleasant experience, far worse than flu.
I dont understand people not taking it seriously.

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Originally Posted by Former Labour leader

Was just speaking to the nurse in my surgery. Every member of staff had it and the surgery was closed for a fortnight.
She was fit and healthy but she had been seriously ill with the virus. Make no mistake, you may not die but it can be a very unpleasant experience, far worse than flu.
I dont understand people not taking it seriously.

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Yeah I've got a friend who's a doctor and she and all her family had it really bad. The kids are still having difficulty breathing months after the fact too.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Way above every week? Is that a fact? Let's say it is (although it isn't). Do all of those people dying have the virus and is the virus itself the cause of all of those deaths?

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Dude, stick to boycotting* the club. People are dying of the virus, more would die if we had fewer restrictions, fewer would die if we had more restrictions. Other points about lack of services to other patients are pertinent, but you've already got the percentage of deaths wrong and you're digging another hole for yourself. The sociopathic part of me is willing you to carry on until people get bored so you can claim you were right again, but the human aspect of me is cringing here.






*easier the last 8 months.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Yep every week. Why are there so many more this year if not related to the virus?

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With the uptake in flu vaccines this year, together with the impact of social distancing on flu infections, I would expect we have fewer deaths due to flu this winter too. So, excess deaths is a good measurement.#

I appreciate TLG is desperate to get back to boycotting the club from Ninian Stand Row Z Seat 763, but some of us have seen the impacts of the virus and I wouldn't wish it on a dog (and this is me seeing a young girl aged 25, no previous health conditions, actually recover from the virus at home). Long covid is a debilitating issue at present, God knows when it will end for her, but she has been unfit to work for months. Even ignoring the death figures, do we really want people in a position where they cannot work because of the long-term impacts of the virus?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I'm doing absolutely nothing of the sort.

People are dying of all sorts of causes throughout the UK and a percentage of them are dying because they are not getting the treatment they need due to the way in which the Covid-19 pandemic has and is being handled. Senior healthcare officials, medical experts and politicians have regularly stated as much and have appealed to people to continue to use the health services they need but are currently avoiding because of Covid-19.

I've recently had treatment for a health problem that required visits to both my GP and the Heath Hospital. The number of people in both places (or rather the lack of them) was staggering by comparison to the numbers that were present when I last visited those places in March.

I have maintained from the early stages that the true effect of the pandemic in terms of deaths is the excess deaths figures, as they are not narrowed down to any one cause. I think that distinction is a very important one.

As for having a shitty attitude, that accusation is more than a little ironic coming from you.

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You are doing exactly that. You have an agenda and you're making assumptions and trying to manipulate figures to convince yourself and everyone else that your disdain for compliance is OK.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Yep every week.

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That's simply not true according to figures produced by the ONS, but I'm going to leave it there as this is getting daft now. I'm being accused of having opinions and attitudes that are definitely not my own and of saying things I've never said, so discussing the matter further is plainly a fruitless exercise.

It seems the majority of you guys reckon the current restrictions are reasonable and proportionate. I believe they are unreasonable and disproportionate. That's all there is to it really, so we're going to have to agree to disagree. And let's be honest here, our opinions don't matter a jot anyway and are certainly not going to alter what the likes of Drakeford and Johnson are going to do from here on in.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I'm going to leave it there as this is getting daft now.

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The daftness started with your stats mate, but well done on wisely throwing in the towel. Shame you won't be able to enlighten us as to the impact if we return to normal.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

That's simply not true according to figures produced by the ONS, but I'm going to leave it there as this is getting daft now. I'm being accused of having opinions and attitudes that are definitely not my own and of saying things I've never said, so discussing the matter further is plainly a fruitless exercise.

It seems the majority of you guys reckon the current restrictions are reasonable and proportionate. I believe they are unreasonable and disproportionate. That's all there is to it really, so we're going to have to agree to disagree. And let's be honest here, our opinions don't matter a jot anyway and are certainly not going to alter what the likes of Drakeford and Johnson are going to do from here on in.

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I think they're proportionate but they don't make a lot of sense. I'd say only being able to drink with a substantial meal and a booked table like England could work better but look at the effect eat out to help out had on the numbers.

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Originally Posted by NYCBlue

You have an agenda......

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:hehe::hehe::hehe:

Sure.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Way above every week? Is that a fact? Let's say it is (although it isn't). Do all of those people dying have the virus and is the virus itself the cause of all of those deaths?

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Like the many I’ve heard of that have terminal cancer and caught it by having to go into hospital with an infection. Was it covid or cancer?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

That's simply not true according to figures produced by the ONS, but I'm going to leave it there as this is getting daft now. I'm being accused of having opinions and attitudes that are definitely not my own and of saying things I've never said, so discussing the matter further is plainly a fruitless exercise.

It seems the majority of you guys reckon the current restrictions are reasonable and proportionate. I believe they are unreasonable and disproportionate. That's all there is to it really, so we're going to have to agree to disagree. And let's be honest here, our opinions don't matter a jot anyway and are certainly not going to alter what the likes of Drakeford and Johnson are going to do from here on in.

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A lot of people I’ve seen this week think restrictions are unreasonable and disproportionate too.....people who did agree with most stuff all summer. Uber driver I saw last night said he’s about to lose his flat.....along with his livelihood

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Originally Posted by goats

A lot of people I’ve seen this week think restrictions are unreasonable and disproportionate too.....people who did agree with most stuff all summer. Uber driver I saw last night said he’s about to lose his flat.....along with his livelihood

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This is one of the short-terms consequences and longer term consequences, especially when mixed in with Brexit, means a lot more will be in the same boat. Can anyone give a reason why Drakeford and Sturgeon (months before an election) and Johnson (a populist politician by all accounts) would chose to damage their reputations so much?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Might need to tweak the last line there! :hehe:

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Looking for help please

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Originally Posted by surge

Can anyone give a reason why Drakeford and Sturgeon (months before an election) and Johnson (a populist politician by all accounts) would chose to damage their reputations so much?

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Is the First Minister really damaging his reputation? He seems to have plenty of supporters on here and most of the board's contributors appear to be content with the restrictions he's imposing. To be honest, I've no idea what his reputation was like before the pandemic. I'd genuinely never heard of Mark Drakeford until a few months ago and I suspect the same is true for many other people in Wales.

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Originally Posted by dandywarhol

Looking for help please

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Well I'd get banned from a hundred pubs
And I'd get banned from a hundred more
Just to be the man, who'd been banned, from-2 hun-dred pubs BUT showed co-vid the door

Der ra ra da....(repeat) :glasses: :glasses:

Well I'd get banned from a hundred pubs
And I'd get banned from a hundred more
I couldn't give a monkeys toss
If they never ever opened their door

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Is the First Minister really damaging his reputation? He seems to have plenty of supporters on here and most of the board's contributors appear to be content with the restrictions he's imposing. To be honest, I've no idea what his reputation was like before the pandemic. I'd genuinely never heard of Mark Drakeford until a few months ago and I suspect the same is true for many other people in Wales.

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I thought you were "leaving it there" mate! Then again, we all thought you were boycotting the City too. :hehe: