Vincent Tan to give half his wealth to charity after he dies...

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I'd say the two are intrinsically linked, wouldn't you?

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Not really. What kind of character a club owners is, and how he runs the club, are 2 different things entirely.
You could have an owner who’s as nice as pie, but naive, and ****s the club up, or you could have an absolute keunt in charge, but they improve your club both on and off the pitch.
I was just interested in your opinion as him as an owner.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Not really. What kind of character a club owners is, and how he runs the club, are 2 different things entirely.

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As far as I’m concerned you couldn’t be more wrong.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

As far as I’m concerned you couldn’t be more wrong.

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Can you explain?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Can you explain?

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You not wanting to explain your reasoning TLG ?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Can you explain?

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This? Dear me.....

Yes, I can explain and it's very simple. I don't believe what kind of character a club owner is and how he runs the club are two entirely different things as you suggest. On the contrary, I believe they are very strongly linked.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

This? Dear me.....

Yes, I can explain and it's very simple. I don't believe what kind of character a club owner is and how he runs the club are two entirely different things as you suggest. On the contrary, I believe they are very strongly linked.

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Well that was a damp squib. Thought you were gonna enlighten me a bit more than that.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Well that was a damp squib. Thought you were gonna enlighten me a bit more than that.

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So what do you want exactly?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

So what do you want exactly?

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We’ll just have to agree to disagree. There’s more chance of Sludge getting his Nat King than you ever saying anything positive about Tan. Your a bitter man 😀

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

We’ll just have to agree to disagree. There’s more chance of Sludge getting his Nat King than you ever saying anything positive about Tan.

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In order for me to say something positive about Tan, I'd first have to believe there was something positive about Tan. I don't, so I won't.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

In order for me to say something positive about Tan, I'd first have to believe there was something positive about Tan. I don't, so I won't.

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the fact that since the red disaster he has kept the club going

If he pulls out we are fecked

I think that's something positive

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

In order for me to say something positive about Tan, I'd first have to believe there was something positive about Tan. I don't, so I won't.

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Hypocrite ice cream brigade.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

the fact that since the red disaster he has kept the club going

If he pulls out we are fecked

I think that's something positive

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Other than the red rubbish he's been the best owner the club has had. Long may it continue.

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Originally Posted by stan butler

Hypocrite ice cream brigade.

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Snivelling troglodyte troop.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Snivelling troglodyte troop.

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I realise it's a virtually impossible question to answer Dave considering the rebrand had such a big effect on how you, and many others, view the club, but do you believe your opinion of Vincent Tan would be different if it had never happened?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I realise it's a virtually impossible question to answer Dave considering the rebrand had such a big effect on how you, and many others, view the club, but do you believe your opinion of Vincent Tan would be different if it had never happened?

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It is an impossible question to answer because the rebrand effectively defines Tan's tenure. It's like asking somebody's opinion of Sam Hammam without Black Friday or the Langston affair. The fact that the club still has Tan's little red dragon on its badge speaks volumes. After all, how many other professional football clubs have what is effectively their owner's personal mark on their badges?

It's April 2021 and yet Cardiff City is still apparently entirely dependent upon the continued goodwill and financial support of a rich Malaysian, and that's according to his chairman and those who count themselves as his biggest supporters. To me, that speaks volumes about the way in which the club has been run during the last decade.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

It is an impossible question to answer because the rebrand effectively defines Tan's tenure. It's like asking somebody's opinion of Sam Hammam without Black Friday or the Langston affair. The fact that the club still has Tan's little red dragon on its badge speaks volumes. After all, how many other professional football clubs have what is effectively their owner's personal mark on their badges?

It's April 2021 and yet Cardiff City is still apparently entirely dependent upon the continued goodwill and financial support of a rich Malaysian, and that's according to his chairman and those who count themselves as his biggest supporters. To me, that speaks volumes about the way in which the club has been run during the last decade.

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I think back to what it felt like when it was learned that a billionaire was going to take over the club and think “is this it then?”, because more than a decade later, we’re slightly worse off in terms of league position, much worse off in terms of quality of football and much worse off in terms of producing our own players.

However, I cannot be anything other than grateful for Vincent Tan’s financial support and the debt and interest payments he has written off (although the amount written off is not as much as was promised a few years ago I believe).

The rebrand was a disaster of Vincent Tan’s own making - in some ways, the club has not recovered from it, but when people say he’s the best owner we’ve ever had, I can understand why they would say that. That said, for me, we could and should have been so much better than we’ve turned out and so I can’t agree with that viewpoint.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

It is an impossible question to answer because the rebrand effectively defines Tan's tenure. It's like asking somebody's opinion of Sam Hammam without Black Friday or the Langston affair. The fact that the club still has Tan's little red dragon on its badge speaks volumes. After all, how many other professional football clubs have what is effectively their owner's personal mark on their badges?

It's April 2021 and yet Cardiff City is still apparently entirely dependent upon the continued goodwill and financial support of a rich Malaysian, and that's according to his chairman and those who count themselves as his biggest supporters. To me, that speaks volumes about the way in which the club has been run during the last decade.

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You put Tan in the naughty corner over the rebrand, and have refused to let him out ever since. How long can you hold a grudge?
You also said you wouldn’t go back while he’s still at the helm, but pre covid, you were sniffing around like a teenager trying to get into a peep show.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I think back to what it felt like when it was learned that a billionaire was going to take over the club and think “is this it then?”, because more than a decade later, we’re slightly worse off in terms of league position, much worse off in terms of quality of football and much worse off in terms of producing our own players.

However, I cannot be anything other than grateful for Vincent Tan’s financial support and the debt and interest payments he has written off (although the amount written off is not as much as was promised a few years ago I believe).

The rebrand was a disaster of Vincent Tan’s own making - in some ways, the club has not recovered from it, but when people say he’s the best owner we’ve ever had, I can understand why they would say that. That said, for me, we could and should have been so much better than we’ve turned out and so I can’t agree with that viewpoint.

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"Least bad" is the way I tend to think about this.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I think back to what it felt like when it was learned that a billionaire was going to take over the club and think “is this it then?”, because more than a decade later, we’re slightly worse off in terms of league position, much worse off in terms of quality of football and much worse off in terms of producing our own players.

However, I cannot be anything other than grateful for Vincent Tan’s financial support and the debt and interest payments he has written off (although the amount written off is not as much as was promised a few years ago I believe).

The rebrand was a disaster of Vincent Tan’s own making - in some ways, the club has not recovered from it, but when people say he’s the best owner we’ve ever had, I can understand why they would say that. That said, for me, we could and should have been so much better than we’ve turned out and so I can’t agree with that viewpoint.

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We got to the Premier league, and he gave McKay cash to spend, but he wasted it. It’s not all Tans fault we are where we are.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

You put Tan in the naughty corner over the rebrand, and have refused to let him out ever since. How long can you hold a grudge? You also said you wouldn’t go back while he’s still at the helm, but pre covid, you were sniffing around like a teenager trying to get into a peep show.

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Credit where it's due, the shite you've been gibbering in recent days has been inane even by your own lowly standards.

How long can I hold a grudge, you ask. The answer is I don't know. Maybe a lifetime. We'll have to see I guess.

I said I wouldn't go back while Tan was still at the helm, did I? Utter nonsense. I never said anything of the sort. My first City match post-rebrand was away at Fulham in August 2016 and I've been to plenty since. My last game before Covid-19 struck was the last home match fans were allowed into - the 2-2 draw with Brentford. I think that was my sixth or seventh game of 2019/20. Not sure.

Thanks for your interest, though. It's just a shame you don't have a better memory.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Credit where it's due, the shite you've been gibbering in recent days has been inane even by your own lowly standards.

How long can I hold a grudge, you ask. The answer is I don't know. Maybe a lifetime. We'll have to see I guess.

I said I wouldn't go back while Tan was still at the helm, did I? Utter nonsense. I never said anything of the sort. My first City match post-rebrand was away at Fulham in August 2016 and I've been to plenty since. My last game before Covid-19 struck was the last home match fans were allowed into - the 2-2 draw with Brentford. I think that was my sixth or seventh game of 2019/20. Not sure.

Thanks for your interest, though. It's just a shame you don't have a better memory.

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You’re a belter 😂😂

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

You’re a belter

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I'm not sure how to best describe you.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I'm not sure how to best describe you.

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How bout a City fan willing to forgive and forget?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

How bout a City fan willing to forgive and forget?

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Forgetting is inevitable with a memory as bad as yours.

:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Forgetting is inevitable with a memory as bad as yours.

:thumbup:

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You’re wasted on here. You could be the warm up man at Thornhill Crem 👍

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Credit where it's due, the shite you've been gibbering in recent days has been inane even by your own lowly standards.

How long can I hold a grudge, you ask. The answer is I don't know. Maybe a lifetime. We'll have to see I guess.

I said I wouldn't go back while Tan was still at the helm, did I? Utter nonsense. I never said anything of the sort. My first City match post-rebrand was away at Fulham in August 2016 and I've been to plenty since. My last game before Covid-19 struck was the last home match fans were allowed into - the 2-2 draw with Brentford. I think that was my sixth or seventh game of 2019/20. Not sure.

Thanks for your interest, though. It's just a shame you don't have a better memory.

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I'm sure you said somewhere you would never return whilst Tan was at the club. Then we got to the prem and you wormed your way back.

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Originally Posted by stan butler

I'm sure you said somewhere you would never return whilst Tan was at the club. Then we got to the prem and you wormed your way back.

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That's because, much like WT, you're an idiot with a really poor memory. As it happens, my first home match post-rebrand was against the mighty Burton Albion in January 2017. Rhys Healey scored the winner for City in injury time. A Premier League thriller it wasn't. Dreadful game.

But never mind talking about the numerous football matches I've attended during the last five years. You seem to have a deep and somewhat strange affection for the 69 year-old Malaysian businessman who currently owns and controls Cardiff City Football Club, so let's talk instead about the decade under his ownership. In which particular ways would you consider that the club is further forward now than it was when he took control? What aspects of the club's current operations lead you to hold Vincent Tan in such high esteem?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

We got to the Premier league, and he gave McKay cash to spend, but he wasted it. It’s not all Tans fault we are where we are.

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Do you deny that we’re in a slightly worse position now than when Vincent Tan took over, that the quality of football is much worse and that we’re not as good at producing our own players than we were? I’ve no problem with giving Vincent Tan due credit for his part in our two promotions, but then it has to follow that he cannot escape some blame for our record creating two relegations doesn’t it?

Also, you’re conveniently forgetting that Mackay had to do his job in 12/13 and 13/14 against a background of supporter unrest created entirely by Vincent Tan and that he had to do his job for the first half of our first Premier League season with the owner making it pretty obvious he didn’t want him at the club.

Being honest, I’ve doubts as to whether we’d have stayed up if Mackay had stayed, but it’s a fact that we were outside the bottom three when he was sacked. We certainly weren’t the worst team in the league when Mackay left, but the record shows we were when the season ended.

It’s simplistic nonsense to say Mackay or Tan were solely responsible for us going down in 13/14 (I used to say that the only person at the club who could look back on the season with satisfaction as to their own performance was David Marshall), but, apart from those in the Boardroom, the only links we had to the 13/14 squad were Aaron Gunnarsson and Joe Ralls (who spent the season on loan at Yeovil) - it seems to me that those in the Boardroom learned none of the lessons of 13/14 when it came to our second Premier League season in 18/19.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Do you deny that we’re in a slightly worse position now than when Vincent Tan took over, that the quality of football is much worse and that we’re not as good at producing our own players than we were? I’ve no problem with giving Vincent Tan due credit for his part in our two promotions, but then it has to follow that he cannot escape some blame for our record creating two relegations doesn’t it?

Also, you’re conveniently forgetting that Mackay had to do his job in 12/13 and 13/14 against a background of supporter unrest created entirely by Vincent Tan and that he had to do his job for the first half of our first Premier League season with the owner making it pretty obvious he didn’t want him at the club.

Being honest, I’ve doubts as to whether we’d have stayed up if Mackay had stayed, but it’s a fact that we were outside the bottom three when he was sacked. We certainly weren’t the worst team in the league when Mackay left, but the record shows we were when the season ended.

It’s simplistic nonsense to say Mackay or Tan were solely responsible for us going down in 13/14 (I used to say that the only person at the club who could look back on the season with satisfaction as to their own performance was David Marshall), but, apart from those in the Boardroom, the only links we had to the 13/14 squad were Aaron Gunnarsson and Joe Ralls (who spent the season on loan at Yeovil) - it seems to me that those in the Boardroom learned none of the lessons of 13/14 when it came to our second Premier League season in 18/19.

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I agree with most of the above. I’m no big fan of VT, but he’s no worse an owner than anyone else we’ve had in my lifetime. Your point about MM having to work under the stress of the rebrand is moot imo.
In fact it probably helped him in a way, as most fans at the time, seemed more concerned with what was going on off the pitch, rather than on it.
MM didn’t give a toss about the colour change, as he had no allegiance to us, other than the club being his employer.
He even escaped the wrath of presiding over one of the worst results in our history, going out of the cup to lowly Macclesfield.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

That's because, much like WT, you're an idiot with a really poor memory. As it happens, my first home match post-rebrand was against the mighty Burton Albion in January 2017. Rhys Healey scored the winner for City in injury time. A Premier League thriller it wasn't. Dreadful game.

But never mind talking about the numerous football matches I've attended during the last five years. You seem to have a deep and somewhat strange affection for the 69 year-old Malaysian businessman who currently owns and controls Cardiff City Football Club, so let's talk instead about the decade under his ownership. In which particular ways would you consider that the club is further forward now than it was when he took control? What aspects of the club's current operations lead you to hold Vincent Tan in such high esteem?

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None of us hold Tan in high esteem, but then nobody on here seems as bitter as you towards him.
It’s difficult to remember exactly what you said at the time, without going back over the threads, but you were such a drama queen and attention seeker throughout the whole period.
You made your stance by boycotting, but still lingered on like a bad smell, putting the proverbial boot in at any given opportunity, (and still do), then eventually meandered back. It’s your life and your decisions at the end of the day, but you’ve still not put the toys back in your pram after all these yrs.

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Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy

"Least bad" is the way I tend to think about this.

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Yes, I reckon that's a good way of describing it.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

I agree with most of the above. I’m no big fan of VT, but he’s no worse an owner than anyone else we’ve had in my lifetime. Your point about MM having to work under the stress of the rebrand is moot imo.
In fact it probably helped him in a way, as most fans at the time, seemed more concerned with what was going on off the pitch, rather than on it.
MM didn’t give a toss about the colour change, as he had no allegiance to us, other than the club being his employer.
He even escaped the wrath of presiding over one of the worst results in our history, going out of the cup to lowly Macclesfield.

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Considering the vast wealth at his disposal we dont appear to be benefiting from it. He has wasted huge amounts of money, or his CEOs and managers have at least. We might be more stable as in we can throw cash at any issues but we don’t appear to be getting close to being anyway sustainable or bringing youth through......although we might finally be getting somewhere with the latter.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

None of us hold Tan in high esteem, but then nobody on here seems as bitter as you towards him.
It’s difficult to remember exactly what you said at the time, without going back over the threads, but you were such a drama queen and attention seeker throughout the whole period.
You made your stance by boycotting, but still lingered on like a bad smell, putting the proverbial boot in at any given opportunity, (and still do), then eventually meandered back. It’s your life and your decisions at the end of the day, but you’ve still not put the toys back in your pram after all these yrs.

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Couldn't have worded it better :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by goats

Considering the vast wealth at his disposal we dont appear to be benefiting from it. He has wasted huge amounts of money, or his CEOs and managers have at least. We might be more stable as in we can throw cash at any issues but we don’t appear to be getting close to being anyway sustainable or bringing youth through......although we might finally be getting somewhere with the latter.

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Two seasons in the Premier League and challenging at the top end of the Championship table most seasons. The former being something I thought I would never see in my lifetime. Compare that to the dross that went before. Its his money as well, so he can waste it however he sees fit.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Do you deny that we’re in a slightly worse position now than when Vincent Tan took over, that the quality of football is much worse and that we’re not as good at producing our own players than we were? I’ve no problem with giving Vincent Tan due credit for his part in our two promotions, but then it has to follow that he cannot escape some blame for our record creating two relegations doesn’t it?

Also, you’re conveniently forgetting that Mackay had to do his job in 12/13 and 13/14 against a background of supporter unrest created entirely by Vincent Tan and that he had to do his job for the first half of our first Premier League season with the owner making it pretty obvious he didn’t want him at the club.

Being honest, I’ve doubts as to whether we’d have stayed up if Mackay had stayed, but it’s a fact that we were outside the bottom three when he was sacked. We certainly weren’t the worst team in the league when Mackay left, but the record shows we were when the season ended.

It’s simplistic nonsense to say Mackay or Tan were solely responsible for us going down in 13/14 (I used to say that the only person at the club who could look back on the season with satisfaction as to their own performance was David Marshall), but, apart from those in the Boardroom, the only links we had to the 13/14 squad were Aaron Gunnarsson and Joe Ralls (who spent the season on loan at Yeovil) - it seems to me that those in the Boardroom learned none of the lessons of 13/14 when it came to our second Premier League season in 18/19.

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Why were the two relegations from the Premier League record breaking ? Also, when judging the performance of the team, managers and owner in the last two years, nobody appears to be making any allowance for the fact that we are playing football in the middle of a pandemic with no fans, severely restricted income and players and their families under severe pressure regarding catching the disease, lack of pre-season, number of games in a short space of time etc etc. With regard to Mackay, it is hardly surprising that Tan wanted him out after the money he wasted on players and then the racist and disrespectful texts he sent about the owner.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

That's because, much like WT, you're an idiot with a really poor memory. As it happens, my first home match post-rebrand was against the mighty Burton Albion in January 2017. Rhys Healey scored the winner for City in injury time. A Premier League thriller it wasn't. Dreadful game.

But never mind talking about the numerous football matches I've attended during the last five years. You seem to have a deep and somewhat strange affection for the 69 year-old Malaysian businessman who currently owns and controls Cardiff City Football Club, so let's talk instead about the decade under his ownership. In which particular ways would you consider that the club is further forward now than it was when he took control? What aspects of the club's current operations lead you to hold Vincent Tan in such high esteem?

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The fact that you are asking how is the club further forward now than it was when Tan took control says it all for me. If you actually think that the club is worse off now than it was pre 2010 then you are deluded. You appear to have a total inability to acknowledge or accept any of the good things that Tan has done and the unprecedented success we have achieved on and off the pitch since he took over. Perhaps you will only be happy when the club is wallowing in the lower leagues again and on the br8nk of bankruptcy, as it mostly was between 1985 and 2003.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

None of us hold Tan in high esteem, but then nobody on here seems as bitter as you towards him. It’s difficult to remember exactly what you said at the time, without going back over the threads, but you were such a drama queen and attention seeker throughout the whole period. You made your stance by boycotting, but still lingered on like a bad smell, putting the proverbial boot in at any given opportunity, (and still do), then eventually meandered back. It’s your life and your decisions at the end of the day, but you’ve still not put the toys back in your pram after all these yrs.

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Do you actually read the threads you contribute to? None of us hold Tan in high esteem, you say. Really?!? So which poor bastards appointed you as their spokesman? Can't have been dml1954, who very definitely holds Tan in high esteem. The Former Labour Leader is clearly a big fan, as is Moodybluebird. Meanwhile, I reckon Stan Butler probably has posters of Vinnie on his bedroom wall.

As for you, you seem genuinely offended by the fact that anyone still thinks Tan's a twat (and, in my experience, plenty of people do). It's as if you take it personally, which is a bit odd. Do you have some sort of bizarre fetish for old Malaysian men who wear their trousers around their tits or something similar?

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Originally Posted by stan butler

Couldn't have worded it better

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In your case, that's a given.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Two seasons in the Premier League and challenging at the top end of the Championship table most seasons. The former being something I thought I would never see in my lifetime. Compare that to the dross that went before.

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Challenging at the top end of the Championship most seasons, a play-off final, an FA Cup final, that sort of dross?

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Also, when judging the performance of the team, managers and owner in the last two years, nobody appears to be making any allowance for the fact that we are playing football in the middle of a pandemic with no fans, severely restricted income and players and their families under severe pressure regarding catching the disease, lack of pre-season, number of games in a short space of time etc etc.

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You know this is true for every club, right? You appreciate Covid-19 isn't just a Cardiff thing?