Erol Bulut to consider his future after sending strong message to the board

Frustration bursting over, he's throwing his toys out of the pram because he didn't get the players he wanted, he's missed a few already and he was confident he was getting Moore. Add to that he didn't secure a contract extension and the existing players are not playing as well as they can it's getting too much for him. It's not a great time to throw a paddy, will Tan sanction his signings now he's just challenged him and the board?

They may decide to let him go and go with a new plan, like Jones, may try for Cooper (no chance) or end up with another waste of space.

personally i'd stick and patch things up, he's the best we are likely to get but it's not an easy problem to solve.

Interesting couple of weeks ahead!

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Originally Posted by jon1959

This feels like a toxic mix of frustration, naivety and gamesmanship from both Bulut and the board.

My view a few months back was that the jury should still be out on Bulut. I think that is still the position.

He seems to be more of a real manager than many of our recent team bosses - but the scorecard is mixed.

He has overperformed up to the beginning of December. Since then it has been the opposite.

Has he impressed with team selection, match tactics or substitutions? Mixed picture.

Has he improved players through his coaching team? Not much evidence of that.

Has he led the club, provided a vision and direction for the team, and created a relationship with the fans? Again a mixed picture. He does appear to over promise and under deliver, but that is part of the ‘honesty’ that excites WOL so much.

Has he brought through u21s? He has said the right things and put some of them on the bench but not gone the next step. Disappointing!

Has he been a success with transfers in/out and team building. Not yet - but probably not his fault.

No reason for knee jerk optimism about a play off push and no real danger of relegation (not yet anyway) and for me that represents progress.

Still work in progress. Some good, some bad. May turn out to be our best manager for 40:years. Could be a Turkey!

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Can't disagree with any of that, very well put.
Of course, what is also important is that we don't know what goes on between Bulut and his paymasters. Maybe he got what he wanted at the start of the season and claimed he could challenge for the play-offs. Maybe it was agreed there would be a transfer budget and new players for a promotion push in Jan. Only they know and if he's seen as underachieving then we may be "treading water" to the end of the season.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

I've no idea what really goes on behind the scenes, but I'd be willing to guess Tan has had second thoughts about a 'push' for the play offs [which was totally unrealistic anyway], and reckons that with the existing squad and Ramsey on the way back City have another Championship season secured. Perhaps by next August the club may have had some more financial success with the Sala case and the club will be ripe for selling..

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..and here is the elephant in the room:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...claim-28477920

I think Bulut, results, transfers, are a distant second at the moment..

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Originally Posted by jon1959

This feels like a toxic mix of frustration, naivety and gamesmanship from both Bulut and the board.

My view a few months back was that the jury should still be out on Bulut. I think that is still the position.

He seems to be more of a real manager than many of our recent team bosses - but the scorecard is mixed.

He has overperformed up to the beginning of December. Since then it has been the opposite.

Has he impressed with team selection, match tactics or substitutions? Mixed picture.

Has he improved players through his coaching team? Not much evidence of that.

Has he led the club, provided a vision and direction for the team, and created a relationship with the fans? Again a mixed picture. He does appear to over promise and under deliver, but that is part of the ‘honesty’ that excites WOL so much.

Has he brought through u21s? He has said the right things and put some of them on the bench but not gone the next step. Disappointing!

Has he been a success with transfers in/out and team building. Not yet - but probably not his fault.

No reason for knee jerk optimism about a play off push and no real danger of relegation (not yet anyway) and for me that represents progress.

Still work in progress. Some good, some bad. May turn out to be our best manager for 40:years. Could be a Turkey!

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Good post, I go along with your sentiments. When people say that we were over achieving, it doesn't really give much insight into what was happening (initially) under Bulut. He was new, the players were finding their feet, there was an initial boost with a few of the signings. What Bulut implemented was organisation and hard work, shape, graft, a back three not left isolated and a narrow midfield. It was non risk and work, work, work. That took us so far. He did it because it was an essential tactic towards not exposing the frailties and abilities of out players, but, we also need that creative edge to compensate when the work rate and shape break down. We don't have those players, well we have one, but he's injured.

So in my opinion it's a case of a group of limited individuals crashing and the coach, his staff and the players not being able to implement a different style, because they're not good enough. I don't think it's complicated at all, We were just a hard working team, and that's an essential, but if we don't have the quality when that fails, we don't have anything. The style and tactics Bulut started with are gone, over, finished. We've been sussed out.

If anyone out there thinks that we can reinvent ourselves or believe that this group of players are going to improve creatively, add pace and intelligence to their game, then they'll be waiting forever. Maybe bulut and his staff aren't up to the job. I'm certain the players aren't. This lot are awful, it doesn't get better than the level they're at right now.

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Originally Posted by Alfresco

Tan don't trust Bulut with the war chest and no one can blame him.

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What war chest? What happened to KM signing? When the hell is Rambo back? I guess we will just about stay up and go again….

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I'd say that's a fair summing up Jon. Unfortunately, I don't see how this can end well - we all know what Tan is like when he thinks he's been wronged and he's not going to like Bulut being so, um, frank with his words. On the other hand, what Bulut said yesterday hardly came across as the words of someone desperate to stay and it could be that even if Tan makes conciliatory noises, our manager could still go anyway. With Bulut being very much Mehmet Dalman's man, our Chairman's not coming out of this well, I wouldn't be surprised if he feels somewhat let down by Bulut, while being given a reminder of how little real power he wields at City.

For me, Bulut has been a bit naive in expecting early signings. It may be that such things are quite common in Turkish transfer windows, but, traditionally, in this country, they tend to come late in a rush in the January one in particular. That said, the club chose to issue a statement through the Trust (surely no one thinks Keith was making a pitch to become the new Carl :xmashehe:)which spoke of signings to come next week - the fact that they did not materialise would give Bulut some justification in feeling frustrated and annoyed I'd say.

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True, although the summer transfer activity felt planned and thought through (unless I was blinded by the signing of Ramsey) with a view to building in January when we could actually spend money.

It felt like there was some sort of plan e.g. the long term pursuit of Moore.

Or has the recent dismal run of performances just derailed all of the above? Which would be very fickle and yet so Cardiff City.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

True, although the summer transfer activity felt planned and thought through (unless I was blinded by the signing of Ramsey) with a view to building in January when we could actually spend money.

It felt like there was some sort of plan e.g. the long term pursuit of Moore.

Or has the recent dismal run of performances just derailed all of the above? Which would be very fickle and yet so Cardiff City.

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I tend to agree, I still think the recruitment in the summer was decent and better than I personally hoped for especially not being able to spend any transfer fees/loan fees, probably wiping off a huge chunk of the market. Ultimately we were never going to build a promotion pushing team under an embargo and despite the good effort at recruitment over the summer we are still a pretty poor squad especially losing players like ODowda and Ramsey for most the season so far.

Like you said the dream was to be in touching distance of the play offs come January 1st and then do some really recruitment, sadly that hasn’t materialised.

I keep seeing posts on X and some on here about expecting a top 6 finish etc, I don’t know how anyone would think that (are they?) with this squad. The hope was always to stay in touching distance and then add in January but it hasn’t happened.

Give him money to sign Moore and a genuine goalscorer

We don't have a forward line of any note, Robinson , etete , etc all need to be moved on

Sign a couple of decent midfielders and forget about Ramsey and odowda coming back to save our arses , I just can't see much happening from them this season and Ramsey will probably quit in the summer

The pressure off rails wintle etc to hold the Fort will allow us to play with a bit of confidence

I don't blame bulut aside a few decisions the prime one signing the arsenal keeper disaster

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Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo

I tend to agree, I still think the recruitment in the summer was decent and better than I personally hoped for especially not being able to spend any transfer fees/loan fees, probably wiping off a huge chunk of the market. Ultimately we were never going to build a promotion pushing team under an embargo and despite the good effort at recruitment over the summer we are still a pretty poor squad especially losing players like ODowda and Ramsey for most the season so far.

Like you said the dream was to be in touching distance of the play offs come January 1st and then do some really recruitment, sadly that hasn’t materialised.

I keep seeing posts on X and some on here about expecting a top 6 finish etc, I don’t know how anyone would think that (are they?) with this squad. The hope was always to stay in touching distance and then add in January but it hasn’t happened.

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One win out of this current bad form would have put us up to 8th

That's more than touching distance

he will have been set the task of working with freebies, loan players that lets face it no one else in a better situation would want, some players would be happier to come here rather than a team in L1...

he will have enthusiasm to start off but in reality that soon wheres off, this is a business but when theres no player business being done its gutting... there will have obviously been 1 or 2 players already gone elsewehere
its a neither here nor there situation in this division where your obviously not competing and battling for progress out of this division...

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Originally Posted by jon1959

This feels like a toxic mix of frustration, naivety and gamesmanship from both Bulut and the board.

My view a few months back was that the jury should still be out on Bulut. I think that is still the position.

He seems to be more of a real manager than many of our recent team bosses - but the scorecard is mixed.

He has overperformed up to the beginning of December. Since then it has been the opposite.

Has he impressed with team selection, match tactics or substitutions? Mixed picture.

Has he improved players through his coaching team? Not much evidence of that.

Has he led the club, provided a vision and direction for the team, and created a relationship with the fans? Again a mixed picture. He does appear to over promise and under deliver, but that is part of the ‘honesty’ that excites WOL so much.

Has he brought through u21s? He has said the right things and put some of them on the bench but not gone the next step. Disappointing!

Has he been a success with transfers in/out and team building. Not yet - but probably not his fault.

No reason for knee jerk optimism about a play off push and no real danger of relegation (not yet anyway) and for me that represents progress.

Still work in progress. Some good, some bad. May turn out to be our best manager for 40:years. Could be a Turkey!

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I'm starting to think our good start to the season was down to Ramsey making everyone around him look better and that gave the players confidence. Then when Ramsey got injured that confidence the other players had sustained us for a while. Then Bulut started favouring Runarson over Alnwick and things took a dive from then on.

I don't think Bulut is the right person to make the current crop of players and team's patterns of play better. Worringly the usual suspects of potential replacements are, in the main, worse.

A bit disappointing for me. He seems to be distancing himself from the performance of the team for reputation management reasons. At least that’s how it comes across to me, even if he has some valid complaints.

He may well have expected to bring in players, but he’s said himself we can’t compete with other clubs for some of this targets. So we’ll have to be more canny in the transfer market and not unrealistic.

I’m not sure what this type of language is doing to the spirit of a team already low in confidence, but deteriorating performances suggest not much.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Give him money to sign Moore and a genuine goalscorer

We don't have a forward line of any note, Robinson , etete , etc all need to be moved on

Sign a couple of decent midfielders and forget about Ramsey and odowda coming back to save our arses , I just can't see much happening from them this season and Ramsey will probably quit in the summer

The pressure off rails wintle etc to hold the Fort will allow us to play with a bit of confidence

I don't blame bulut aside a few decisions the prime one signing the arsenal keeper disaster

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Are you stupid or just plain ignorant? There is no money and weve got your messiah Colin to thank for that.

If Bulut is not up for the challenge of working with what he’s got and improving players then get someone in who’s up for it.

All this pissing and whinging in public isn’t doing himself any favours. Like a btec Conte.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

This feels like a toxic mix of frustration, naivety and gamesmanship from both Bulut and the board.

My view a few months back was that the jury should still be out on Bulut. I think that is still the position.

He seems to be more of a real manager than many of our recent team bosses - but the scorecard is mixed.

He has overperformed up to the beginning of December. Since then it has been the opposite.

Has he impressed with team selection, match tactics or substitutions? Mixed picture.

Has he improved players through his coaching team? Not much evidence of that.

Has he led the club, provided a vision and direction for the team, and created a relationship with the fans? Again a mixed picture. He does appear to over promise and under deliver, but that is part of the ‘honesty’ that excites WOL so much.

Has he brought through u21s? He has said the right things and put some of them on the bench but not gone the next step. Disappointing!

Has he been a success with transfers in/out and team building. Not yet - but probably not his fault.

No reason for knee jerk optimism about a play off push and no real danger of relegation (not yet anyway) and for me that represents progress.

Still work in progress. Some good, some bad. May turn out to be our best manager for 40:years. Could be a Turkey!

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Great post, totally agree with this. Then the question is, is it the right time and is he the right manager to hand a bunch of money to sign the kind of players he wants to get in, with the knowledge it could all go pear shaped on either side before the end of the year and we are left in another Solskjaer situation where we end up paying them to go away. I'm not sure it is, but you can understand why Bulut is frustrated as well.

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Originally Posted by Stanmore Bluebird

Tan is still focused upon going after money for the Sala loss. He probably isn’t that bothered about Erol Bulut and the manager’s position at the moment.

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Any evidence for this wild statement

Surprised Sludgey hasn’t blamed the situation on thatcher yet!! Or maybe it’s as a direct consequence not enough council housing and obviously brexit

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Originally Posted by PontBlue

I'm starting to think our good start to the season was down to Ramsey making everyone around him look better and that gave the players confidence. Then when Ramsey got injured that confidence the other players had sustained us for a while. Then Bulut started favouring Runarson over Alnwick and things took a dive from then on.

I don't think Bulut is the right person to make the current crop of players and team's patterns of play better. Worringly the usual suspects of potential replacements are, in the main, worse.

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I literally thought the same thing while we were having lunch.

Some managers inspire and some give confidence. Bulut clearly isn't inspiring or giving his players confidence.

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Originally Posted by Maurice Swan

...yes..and one has to ask why.....yes the higher profile clubs come calling, but we should recognise he potential and tie them in.

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There's not a great deal we can do to stop them going though. Would you turn down Manchester United or Leeds as a teenager? The money alone would be enough for most of us, nevermind the access to better facilities/coaches etc

We finally got a Manager after Harris, McCarthy, Morrison, and Hudson and we've no money left to back him, Tan's biggest mistake is trying to run the club without a Manager, this is where you end up!

It sounds like Bulut has been promised players and we've failed to land one!

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Originally Posted by PontBlue

I'm starting to think our good start to the season was down to Ramsey making everyone around him look better and that gave the players confidence. Then when Ramsey got injured that confidence the other players had sustained us for a while. Then Bulut started favouring Runarson over Alnwick and things took a dive from then on.

I don't think Bulut is the right person to make the current crop of players and team's patterns of play better. Worringly the usual suspects of potential replacements are, in the main, worse.

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Exactly my thoughts. People often say football is a confidence game and losing Rambo and having a run of bad results has totally drained us,

I think also having a paper thin squad and no being able to rest or rotate anyone when they might have a niggle/ dip in form is a killer too.

We've see what can be done with some options so it is a board issue currently rather than a managerial one I think

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Originally Posted by City123

There's not a great deal we can do to stop them going though. Would you turn down Manchester United or Leeds as a teenager? The money alone would be enough for most of us, nevermind the access to better facilities/coaches etc

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The teams who have been successful hanging onto young players when bigger teams come calling are the ones who show a clear pathway to first team football though. If you were a good young player and looked at the last 10 years would you stay at City... even this season when he's tried to get shot of players like Sawyers and Rino, had no interest even from leagues below and then continues to involve them in the squad and starting lineup over youngsters like King, Joel Colwill and Ashford. We don't help ourselves with this.

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Originally Posted by LA Bluebird

The teams who have been successful hanging onto young players when bigger teams come calling are the ones who show a clear pathway to first team football though. If you were a good young player and looked at the last 10 years would you stay at City... even this season when he's tried to get shot of players like Sawyers and Rino, had no interest even from leagues below and then continues to involve them in the squad and starting lineup over youngsters like King, Joel Colwill and Ashford. We don't help ourselves with this.

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Southampton are losing their best players. Sunderland, too. They've got great academies and blood their players. That's not to say we can't improve, we definitely can but we are helpless when PL clubs come knocking.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Southampton are losing their best players. Sunderland, too. They've got great academies and blood their players. That's not to say we can't improve, we definitely can but we are helpless when PL clubs come knocking.

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Agree entirely. If they ARE free to move to a bigger club they would be very unlikely to get first team football for quite a while unless they were really exceptional (small fish in a big pond...). At teams like ours they SHOULD be able to see their way into the first team with consistent if not outstanding performances. Sadly that has not been the case for some time.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Southampton are losing their best players. Sunderland, too. They've got great academies and blood their players. That's not to say we can't improve, we definitely can but we are helpless when PL clubs come knocking.

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Premier League sides are interested in City players who are about to be considered for Academy contracts at the age of 16, but when is the last time we had interest in a home produced player older than that from bigger clubs? The reason for this is that we’re so useless at bringing on talent once they get into their late teens and beyond.

Having watched all of the home games the under 21s have played this season and what he has done when he’s come on in Cup games for the first team, I really don’t know what more Joel Colwill can do to show he is ready for exposure to Championship football. One thing Rinomhotagives us is more mobility and stamina in central midfield, but Colwill can do that while offering more of a goal threat. However, it’s obvious that Bulut is not going to use him or Ashford in the first team in a league game - for Bulut you could read the same for the large majority of recent managers, is it any wonder our Academy has, largely been a waste of space in the last decade?

I don't think Bulut is angling for a pay off, it will consist of a might four months.

I do believe the Conte reference may be slightly relevant. Bulut hasn't been brought up in the English management system, he is used to the head coach role. Conte couldn't handle that he had to speak for the club whereas on the continent the Sporting Director or similar spoke for the transfer strategy or status. Conte lost it and said "ask Levy" one time as if WTF has that got to do with me.

Where are Choo or Dalman, we rarely hear from the owner but one of those needs to stand up. It's a very lonely place at the moment for EB.

The truth is all of little ole Plymouths front line was significantly better than ours and that's not EB fault.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Premier League sides are interested in City players who are about to be considered for Academy contracts at the age of 16, but when is the last time we had interest in a home produced player older than that from bigger clubs? The reason for this is that we’re so useless at bringing on talent once they get into their late teens and beyond.

Having watched all of the home games the under 21s have played this season and what he has done when he’s come on in Cup games for the first team, I really don’t know what more Joel Colwill can do to show he is ready for exposure to Championship football. One thing Rinomhotagives us is more mobility and stamina in central midfield, but Colwill can do that while offering more of a goal threat. However, it’s obvious that Bulut is not going to use him or Ashford in the first team in a league game - for Bulut you could read the same for the large majority of recent managers, is it any wonder our Academy has, largely been a waste of space in the last decade?

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I'm not disagreeing with you but post Brexit it is going to very, very difficult to hold onto our best 15/16 year olds. We have used our youngsters well, both of those things are true. I'd have played Joel Colwill or Ashford yesterday. If they're miles off it, why have they got 5/4 year deals?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Premier League sides are interested in City players who are about to be considered for Academy contracts at the age of 16, but when is the last time we had interest in a home produced player older than that from bigger clubs? The reason for this is that we’re so useless at bringing on talent once they get into their late teens and beyond.

Having watched all of the home games the under 21s have played this season and what he has done when he’s come on in Cup games for the first team, I really don’t know what more Joel Colwill can do to show he is ready for exposure to Championship football. One thing Rinomhotagives us is more mobility and stamina in central midfield, but Colwill can do that while offering more of a goal threat. However, it’s obvious that Bulut is not going to use him or Ashford in the first team in a league game - for Bulut you could read the same for the large majority of recent managers, is it any wonder our Academy has, largely been a waste of space in the last decade?

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There is a huge step up from U-21 football to the championship, why over-face the kids. Etete is older, and from a higher grade U21 competition and is nowhere near championship level, why kill the kids? They need L2>L1 then championship and I believe thats what the plan is.

Surely Eli King is well ahead of Joel Colwill?

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Originally Posted by llan bluebird

There is a huge step up from U-21 football to the championship, why over-face the kids. Etete is older, and from a higher grade U21 competition and is nowhere near championship level, why kill the kids? They need L2>L1 then championship and I believe thats what the plan is.

Surely Eli King is well ahead of Joel Colwill?

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Etete isn't good enough, so why does he keep getting games? We know he isn't. We know Rino isn't, neither is Romeo etc. We keep playing players that aren't good enough but we'll never know how good our young players are if they don't play. This is dire stuff now, some of our senior players are so far out of their depth we might as well play some of the kids.

King is having a good loan season, this is what the loan system is there for. It's helped us, him and Morecambe (and hopefully now Ross County).

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Etete isn't good enough, so why does he keep getting games? We know he isn't. We know Rino isn't, neither is Romeo etc. We keep playing players that aren't good enough but we'll never know how good our young players are if they don't play. This is dire stuff now, some of our senior players are so far out of their depth we might as well play some of the kids.

King is having a good loan season, this is what the loan system is there for. It's helped us, him and Morecambe (and hopefully now Ross County).

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I can't think like a football manager as the metrics are totally different to my line of work.

But, it would be tough going into a company and saying to the MD "you know the senior staff you are paying £400~£600k salaries to are not very good (you recruited them) and i am going to promote the interns to do their job"

I would imagine the bloke who sanctioned the "best ever recruitment" would insist on you working your magic on them, or perhaps you are not all that after all

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Originally Posted by llan bluebird

I can't think like a football manager as the metrics are totally different to my line of work.

But, it would be tough going into a company and saying to the MD "you know the senior staff you are paying £400~£600k salaries to are not very good (you recruited them) and i am going to promote the interns to do their job"

I would imagine the bloke who sanctioned the "best ever recruitment" would insist on you working your magic on them, or perhaps you are not all that after all

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Tan is on record as saying he wants the kids to come through. Our best ever recruitment stinks. Everyone involved bar the board has gone. Our players are crap, that is obvious and any manager would have told that to Tan and Dalman. We have been circling the drain for 2 and a half seasons now.

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Originally Posted by llan bluebird

There is a huge step up from U-21 football to the championship, why over-face the kids. Etete is older, and from a higher grade U21 competition and is nowhere near championship level, why kill the kids? They need L2>L1 then championship and I believe thats what the plan is.

Surely Eli King is well ahead of Joel Colwill?

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How come the wurzels constantly find players who can bridge the gap between under 21 and first team football, yet have never been able to establish any dominance over us at age group football in the near twenty years we’ve had an Academy? Bristol seem able to sell one, sometimes two, Academy produced youngster(s) to the Premier League for £10 million plus a season though - their attitude towards their Academy puts ours to shame.

Apart from pre season friendlies and the occasional under 21 international, I’ve not seen Eli King play this season, I’ve seen plenty of Joel Colwill though and I can’t believe he’d be worse than our first team midfielders if he was given a chance to establish himself in our Championship team.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

How come the wurzels constantly find players who can bridge the gap between under 21 and first team football, yet have never been able to establish any dominance over us at age group football in the near twenty years we’ve had an Academy? Bristol seem able to sell one, sometimes two, Academy produced youngster(s) to the Premier League for £10 million plus a season though - their attitude towards their Academy puts ours to shame.

Apart from pre season friendlies and the occasional under 21 international, I’ve not seen Eli King play this season, I’ve seen plenty of Joel Colwill though and I can’t believe he’d be worse than our first team midfielders if he was given a chance to establish himself in our Championship team.

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Are Bristol Cat A? If not how come they keep their schoolboys from the Cat A vultures

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Originally Posted by llan bluebird

Are Bristol Cat A? If not how come they keep their schoolboys from the Cat A vultures

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No, we wouldn’t be playing them twice a season if they were category A. I’d say that the difference is that Bristol youngsters get into the first team, develop further in it and eventually become stand out performers in it - players can only do so much developing if they are limited to under 21 football and/or loaned out to League two teams or below.

At the risk of repeating what others have said, Bulut showed his lack of understanding of the Championship with some of his early tactical decisions. He was lucky that we had Ramsey the first 6 games, and the free and loan rejects he had at his disposal performed above their usual ability at the start.
As time has gone on, these players have reverted to type, or have been found out, as has Bulut's tacticts.
The big question is with the addition of 3/4, will the team.play better, or has has Bulut been found out? Like most, I'm not sure, but I don't think giving Bulut the bullet at this stage would do anything for Cardiff City in the short or long term.
It seems Tan has his reservations, as promised funds have not materialised. After Bulut's outburst yesterday the writing may be on the wall, and yet another managerial sacking is in the offing.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

How come the wurzels constantly find players who can bridge the gap between under 21 and first team football, yet have never been able to establish any dominance over us at age group football in the near twenty years we’ve had an Academy? Bristol seem able to sell one, sometimes two, Academy produced youngster(s) to the Premier League for £10 million plus a season though - their attitude towards their Academy puts ours to shame.

Apart from pre season friendlies and the occasional under 21 international, I’ve not seen Eli King play this season, I’ve seen plenty of Joel Colwill though and I can’t believe he’d be worse than our first team midfielders if he was given a chance to establish himself in our Championship team.

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I know an ex City academy coach who has sent his 2 lads to Bristol City's academy. Watching them v West Ham it was startling just how comfortable, confident quick and strong their young players are. They're just coached differently, it can't be anything else. Whenever one out ours makes a [rare] 1st team appearance, you can straight away see they're not the complete deal.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

I know an ex City academy coach who has sent his 2 lads to Bristol City's academy. Watching them v West Ham it was startling just how comfortable, confident quick and strong their young players are. They're just coached differently, it can't be anything else. Whenever one out ours makes a [rare] 1st team appearance, you can straight away see they're not the complete deal.

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There's also another consideration that I've heard. Does our first XI play the same sort of game as the under 21s? Nathan Blake used to be critical of the style of play our first team played as it offered no progression for the younger players to move seemlessly into. Swansea, as an example, play the same style from kids to first team (perhaps until Duff went there), so youngsters could slot in easily. Imagine you're a technically good midfield kid who enjoys passing and movement. There aren't many City first teams that player could slot into.

The club must issue a statement today with an explanation of the current situation. Any club where the owner, board, manager and players are not all pulling in the same direction is going to fail. Could someone show some leadership please!

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

There's also another consideration that I've heard. Does our first XI play the same sort of game as the under 21s? Nathan Blake used to be critical of the style of play our first team played as it offered no progression for the younger players to move seemlessly into. Swansea, as an example, play the same style from kids to first team (perhaps until Duff went there), so youngsters could slot in easily. Imagine you're a technically good midfield kid who enjoys passing and movement. There aren't many City first teams that player could slot into.

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That hits the nail on the head: there is no vision nor strategy in the club's approach to the footballing aspects.

If the decision maker(s) just took a few steps back and looked at how smaller, modestly run clubs become successful, they'd see that such a vision is not some inconsequential nicety; it underpin that success.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Etete isn't good enough, so why does he keep getting games? We know he isn't. We know Rino isn't, neither is Romeo etc. We keep playing players that aren't good enough but we'll never know how good our young players are if they don't play. This is dire stuff now, some of our senior players are so far out of their depth we might as well play some of the kids.

King is having a good loan season, this is what the loan system is there for. It's helped us, him and Morecambe (and hopefully now Ross County).

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Because a poor Etete is still better than the youth alternatives at the moment.

I'm not saying don't play the Youth but we do need the points too.

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Originally Posted by Crisp White Lines

That hits the nail on the head: there is no vision nor strategy in the club's approach to the footballing aspects.

If the decision maker(s) just took a few steps back and looked at how smaller, modestly run clubs become successful, they'd see that such a vision is not some inconsequential nicety; it underpin that success.

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I can hear the quote already "I was talking to Sharon last week and saying I had unfinished business, they were kind of club...."