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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Says the person who io being entirely predictable in seeking to justify Trump's gaslighting - Trump, the man who more than once talked about "black jobs" (I suppose they're his idea of positive discrimination) during the election campaign. .
I know it's the hated BBC and it's all about seeming, gathering and feeling these days, but this fact checking
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyeg61pnl5o
shows that the number of people with "targeted disabilities" in the FAA almost tripled between the years 2016 to 2023 to the extent that they now make up a whopping 2 per cent of the workforce. During the same period the percentage of white males employed by the FAA dropped from 59 to 55 per cent. As mentioned above, Trump is gaslighting and let's not forget that when he has a go at anything Obama did as President which is still on the statute books, he's drawing attention. to the fact that he did nothing about it during his first term in the White House.
I've said in this thread that at least one Democrat politician blamed Trump in the immediate aftermath of the crash and that's as disgusting at what Trump said, but with power comes responsibility and I'd say every President before this one would consider that before wading in with all guns blazing.
To make out that anyone reacting to Trump's trademark insensitivity is somehow ignoring the tragedy which took place earlier this week is unfair and unjustified - I don't think anyone in this thread is blaming him for what happened, they're reacting to what he appears to see as his main priority post crash.
No it's about actually getting some commentary on some of the issues being discussed as opposed to just the endless repetitive criticism of him.
Everyone agrees his comments were appallingly timed. No one disputes that. His advisers will be telling him that and he probably knows it himself but can't help himself.
But theres numerous reports of hiring policies, court cases, low staff numbers, near misses etc and no one discusses it.. it's just the same tiresome criticism of words. It's so bloody frustrating!
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Doesn't sound like you know what woke means.
It has several meanings. Which I acknowledged by saying we refer to it incoherently and inconclusively and by writing the word as "woke".
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
No it's about actually getting some commentary on some of the issues being discussed as opposed to just the endless repetitive criticism of him.
Everyone agrees his comments were appallingly timed. No one disputes that. His advisers will be telling him that and he probably knows it himself but can't help himself.
But theres numerous reports of hiring policies, court cases, low staff numbers, near misses etc and no one discusses it.. it's just the same tiresome criticism of words. It's so bloody frustrating!
You’re just gaslighting like Trump and don’t give me that stuff about it being frustrating, you love being the contrarian. Is anyone blaming Trump for what happened in this thread? To use that word again, I see a lot of frustration and bemusement as to how a man like Trump (forget politics, I’m talking about his personality) can be re-elected, that’s re-elected, as President of what is still probably the most powerful country in the world?
You’ve told us you would have voted for him (just like you say you’ll vote for Farage) and now you’re trying to turn a thread which was started by someone expressing revulsion at what Trump said and did at that press conference into something else, while trying to convey an impression that you occupy a higher moral ground than those who use this thread for the purpose it was intended.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
To be fair to James, I can think of a handful of posters who would be all over this thread if it were on the alternative forum. But they won't touch it on the main forum, so at least he is putting his head above the parapets.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
To be fair to James, I can think of a handful of posters who would be all over this thread if it were on the alternative forum. But they won't touch it on the main forum, so at least he is putting his head above the parapets.
Pity someone doesn’t fire off an accurate shot!
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
You’re just gaslighting like Trump and don’t give me that stuff about it being frustrating, you love being the contrarian. Is anyone blaming Trump for what happened in this thread? To use that word again, I see a lot of frustration and bemusement as to how a man like Trump (forget politics, I’m talking about his personality) can be re-elected, that’s re-elected, as President of what is still probably the most powerful country in the world?
You’ve told us you would have voted for him (just like you say you’ll vote for Farage) and now you’re trying to turn a thread which was started by someone expressing revulsion at what Trump said and did at that press conference into something else, while trying to convey an impression that you occupy a higher moral ground than those who use this thread for the purpose it was intended.
The thread is about the disaster and Trump bringing DEI into it.
No one disputes that Trumps intervention was crass, insensitive and politically unwise etc etc. Everyone has said that. At the very least wait a few days etc etc..
But when you look into it:
There were staff shortages, both on the night and in recent years
The FAA is currently being sued for racial discrimination as 1000 people allegedly didn't get jobs due to their race
https://simpleflying.com/faa-air-tra...cants-lawsuit/
So the point is that maybe there is some truth in and talking about that might be more useful than everyone repeating what has already been said, and what no one disputes?
Trumps words were really bad. But not hiring qualified people due to their bloody skin colour when you have a shortage of air traffic controllers is a damned site worse!
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
It has several meanings. Which I acknowledged by saying we refer to it incoherently and inconclusively and by writing the word as "woke".
So what is your meaning of it?
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
The thread is about the disaster and Trump bringing DEI into it.
No one disputes that Trumps intervention was crass, insensitive and politically unwise etc etc. Everyone has said that. At the very least wait a few days etc etc..
But when you look into it:
There were staff shortages, both on the night and in recent years
The FAA is currently being sued for racial discrimination as 1000 people allegedly didn't get jobs due to their race
https://simpleflying.com/faa-air-tra...cants-lawsuit/
So the point is that maybe there is some truth in and talking about that might be more useful than everyone repeating what has already been said, and what no one disputes?
Trumps words were really bad. But not hiring qualified people due to their bloody skin colour when you have a shortage of air traffic controllers is a damned site worse!
I think Splott Parker is far better placed to tell us what this thread was intended to be about than you - take away the first sentence and that last paragraph could be Trump talking, you’re doing an awful lot of seeming, gathering and feeling there :hehe:
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I think Splott Parker is far better placed to tell us what this thread was intended to be about than you - take away the first sentence and that last paragraph could be Trump talking, you’re doing an awful lot of seeming, gathering and feeling there :hehe:
Well the thread is called "Washington Disaster" and the opening words are "Trump blames diversity rules..."
So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work it out.
Nor does it take a rocket scientist to spend five minutes reading a couple of articles to see that actually there may be some truth in what he's saying here. You can have another one there.
https://www.aol.com/faa-embroiled-la...145209229.html
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
So what is your meaning of it?
Id go for the second definition here, particularly the second part of it: "especially in a way that is considered unreasonable or extreme" 👍
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke
But language always changes. I've even noticed another use recently, with some of the younger members of staff in work using it as a bit of a joke term for something bad where they've talked about "that orange tastes woke!" Or "that player is totally woke".
It is interesting how language evolves and means different things to different people, hence describing it as I did earlier.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Well the thread is called "Washington Disaster" and the opening words are "Trump blames diversity rules..."
So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work it out.
Nor does it take a rocket scientist to spend five minutes reading a couple of articles to see that actually there may be some truth in what he's saying here. You can have another one there.
https://www.aol.com/faa-embroiled-la...145209229.html
Dear God is there no end to your defence of the likes of Trump? Should I have headed it ‘ Washington Air Disaster, Trump Is A Prick’? Then put no words in the actual post. You do like to twist things to justify your warped views. Then again every is entitled to their opinion, it’s just that yours are invariably disgusting to decent folk.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
Dear God is there no end to your defence of the likes of Trump? Should I have headed it ‘ Washington Air Disaster, Trump Is A Prick’? Then put no words in the actual post. You do like to twist things to justify your warped views. Then again every is entitled to their opinion, it’s just that yours are invariably disgusting to decent folk.
Come on now, be fair - all he’s saying is that he knows better than you why you started this thread.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Come on now, be fair - all he’s saying is that he knows better than you why you started this thread.
:thumbup: it does beggar belief, doesn’t it.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
If this disaster had happened in the UK and a family member of mine had perished, i wouldn’t want sympathy or sympathetic words from the prime minister or other politicians, I’d want immediate answers about why it had happened.
Take from that what you want.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
If this disaster had happened in the UK and a family member of mine had perished, i wouldn’t want sympathy or sympathetic words from the prime minister or other politicians, I’d want immediate answers about why it had happened.
Take from that what you want.
I think that you're saying that you would like to know why it happened? That's what i'm taking from it Bill :thumbup:
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
I think that you're saying that you would like to know why it happened? That's what i'm taking from it Bill :thumbup:
What I mean is, I’m no Trump supporter, but if there is proof of anything he claimed in his remarks, then I’d rather hear that, than gushing sympathy.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
What I mean is, I’m no Trump supporter, but if there is proof of anything he claimed in his remarks, then I’d rather hear that, than gushing sympathy.
So you’d want someone with no idea or evidence of what happened giving a knee jerk warped opinion of the cause?
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
What I mean is, I’m no Trump supporter, but if there is proof of anything he claimed in his remarks, then I’d rather hear that, than gushing sympathy.
And I’m sure you will in time, but I wouldn’t trust anything that was claimed in the seventy two hours after the event because it takes a lot longer to come to legitimate conclusions about what happened in an air crash where 67 people I think it was perished with no survivors.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
So you’d want someone with no idea or evidence of what happened giving a knee jerk warped opinion of the cause?
If it was a family member of yours who perished, like me, I don’t think you’d care what was said by whom in the immediate aftermath.
Of course in time you’d want to know the truth, but it has always galled me when leaders trot out the “At this moment in time, all our thoughts and prayers are with you” guff.
If it were my wife who’d taken her own life in the post office scandal for instance, i wouldn’t want the prime minister to trot out sentimental nonsense, I’d want them to tell me, we will hunt down and jail the perpetrators.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
If it was a family member of yours who perished, like me, I don’t think you’d care what was said by whom in the immediate aftermath.
Of course in time you’d want to know the truth, but it has always galled me when leaders trot out the “At this moment in time, all our thoughts and prayers are with you” guff.
If it were my wife who’d taken her own life in the post office scandal for instance, i wouldn’t want the prime minister to trot out sentimental nonsense, I’d want them to tell me, we will hunt down and jail the perpetrators.
I think you’re way off track here, suggesting other scenarios. This tragedy happened in a country and their ‘leader’ came out with a crass, unsympathetic statement, immediately putting the blame on others with no evidence or proof.
Of course if in such a disaster a loved one of mine passed I’d want answers as soon as possible but one of those answers wouldn’t have been ‘I’m blaming my predecessor’s administration’. Especially when you look at it he was in charge 4-8 years ago and did nothing to change the situation that he’s challenging.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
I think you’re way off track here, suggesting other scenarios. This tragedy happened in a country and their ‘leader’ came out with a crass, unsympathetic statement, immediately putting the blame on others with no evidence or proof.
Of course if in such a disaster a loved one of mine passed I’d want answers as soon as possible but one of those answers wouldn’t have been ‘I’m blaming my predecessor’s administration’. Especially when you look at it he was in charge 4-8 years ago and did nothing to change the situation that he’s challenging.
We’ll agree to disagree and move on. 👍
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
Dear God is there no end to your defence of the likes of Trump? Should I have headed it ‘ Washington Air Disaster, Trump Is A Prick’? Then put no words in the actual post. You do like to twist things to justify your warped views. Then again every is entitled to their opinion, it’s just that yours are invariably disgusting to decent folk.
Wales is a bona fide idiot. S/he has nothing interesting to contribute.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
What I mean is, I’m no Trump supporter, but if there is proof of anything he claimed in his remarks, then I’d rather hear that, than gushing sympathy.
Trump engaged in wild speculation and folded in veiled racist tropes to feed red meat to his hounds. What he said was absolutely vile. At the point in time he made his remarks they hadn't even recovered the flight recorders. The time for "answers" is after evidence collection, investigation and reflection.
In the imeediate aftermath of a tragic event what else can a leader come out with other than statements of condolence?
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Come on now, be fair - all he’s saying is that he knows better than you why you started this thread.
Right so I am supposed to read his mind, I am supposed to ignore what he wrote in the written language I have known for nearly 40 years, I am supposed to take your and his rants over the NY times, Fox News, NY Post, Simple flying aviation website, AOL articles?
I then have to ignore the fact there is a shortage of air traffic controllers. I have to ignore the fact there is a current legal case ongoing and I have to ignore the fact that the FAA's policies seemingly turned down qualified applicants based on race?
And if we do all that then we still have to believe your position that you have put forward with zero evidence whatsoever?
I mean, you are asking a lot here Bob! The reality is, that there may be something in what was said, however prematurely and crassly it was done. You may need to wrench open that closed mind just a tiny bit to accept it though.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
I think you’re way off track here, suggesting other scenarios. This tragedy happened in a country and their ‘leader’ came out with a crass, unsympathetic statement, immediately putting the blame on others with no evidence or proof.
Of course if in such a disaster a loved one of mine passed I’d want answers as soon as possible but one of those answers wouldn’t have been ‘I’m blaming my predecessor’s administration’. Especially when you look at it he was in charge 4-8 years ago and did nothing to change the situation that he’s challenging.
No one, literally no one on here doubts the crassness of the timings and you know that.
What is being questioned is whether there is any truth in what was said. And it you read the numerous articles posted any reasonable person would conclude that there could well be.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Right so I am supposed to read his mind, I am supposed to ignore what he wrote in the written language I have known for nearly 40 years, I am supposed to take your and his rants over the NY times, Fox News, NY Post, Simple flying aviation website, AOL articles?
I then have to ignore the fact there is a shortage of air traffic controllers. I have to ignore the fact there is a current legal case ongoing and I have to ignore the fact that the FAA's policies seemingly turned down qualified applicants based on race?
And if we do all that then we still have to believe your position that you have put forward with zero evidence whatsoever?
I mean, you are asking a lot here Bob! The reality is, that there may be something in what was said, however prematurely and crassly it was done. You may need to wrench open that closed mind just a tiny bit to accept it though.
All of those posts just to say 'That there may be something in what he said'..........
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tuerto
All of those posts just to say 'That there may be something in what he said'..........
Essentially, yes. Coupled with links evidencing it, dealing with the inevitable ad hominem attacks and then repeating everything in the hope we get there in the end!
Way he said it? Zero support from anyone.
Potentially something in what he said? Quite possibly. Should at least be open minded on it
👍
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Shouldn’t people wait for an official investigation, offer condolences etc rather than be Trumpist (is that a word?)and immediately start pointing fingers.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
Shouldn’t people wait for an official investigation, offer condolences etc rather than be Trumpist (is that a word?)and immediately start pointing fingers.
I think so yes, but also that isn't how politics works rightly or wrongly, and Trump supercharged that.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I think so yes, but also that isn't how politics works rightly or wrongly, and Trump supercharged that.
I shouldn’t think the bereaved families are particularly bothered about politics at the moment, I’d imagine they’re in shock and bewilderment at the whole tragedy. The whys and wherefores will come out later and, no doubt, anger will take over from grief. But this man pointing fingers, a man who has recently pardoned a load of unstable nutters, could, with a daft statement with no foundation put a target on people’s backs. The USA seems a very unstable place under this regime and potentially stoking the flames is a stupid thing to do particularly from the head of state.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
I shouldn’t think the bereaved families are particularly bothered about politics at the moment, I’d imagine they’re in shock and bewilderment at the whole tragedy. The whys and wherefores will come out later and, no doubt, anger will take over from grief. But this man pointing fingers, a man who has recently pardoned a load of unstable nutters, could, with a daft statement with no foundation put a target on people’s backs. The USA seems a very unstable place under this regime and potentially stoking the flames is a stupid thing to do particularly from the head of state.
There's something statesmanlike and humane about employing decorum and showing solidarity in times of grief. Anything else is crass, disrespectful and opportunistic. Whoever would have thought Trump would fall into the latter camp?
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
I shouldn’t think the bereaved families are particularly bothered about politics at the moment, I’d imagine they’re in shock and bewilderment at the whole tragedy. The whys and wherefores will come out later and, no doubt, anger will take over from grief. But this man pointing fingers, a man who has recently pardoned a load of unstable nutters, could, with a daft statement with no foundation put a target on people’s backs. The USA seems a very unstable place under this regime and potentially stoking the flames is a stupid thing to do particularly from the head of state.
Indeed. I don't think anyone is defending how he said it and the timing of it.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Indeed. I don't think anyone is defending how he said it and the timing of it.
So are you agreeing that that the man is a dangerous, loud mouthed, inflammatory, horrible, opportunistic twat?
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
So are you agreeing that that the man is a dangerous, loud mouthed, inflammatory, horrible, opportunistic twat?
Dangerous - not particularly. No more than other presidents, and he seems to be trying to clamp down on drugs and crime, and not get engaged in foreign wars, so the jury is out
Loud mouthed. 100%
Inflammatory. Yes, although again im not sure he's alone. I do think a lot of social fabric has become inflamed in recent years by some of the things he is rallying against too if I'm honest.
Horrible. I don't know him. Would I want to be mates with him? I doubt it. Does he seem nice? No he doesn't. Does he seem good natured? Depends on his mood it seems. Do his worst detractors seem nice? No they don't, either.
Opportunistic? What successful politician isn't?
I don't think we have to be totally binary on it all the time though. It doesn't have to be black and white on everything he does and I see that in this example tbh.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
So are you agreeing that that the man is a dangerous, loud mouthed, inflammatory, horrible, opportunistic twat?
James won’t but I will.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
James won’t but I will.
Crack on!
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
So are you agreeing that that the man is a dangerous, loud mouthed, inflammatory, horrible, opportunistic twat?
Are you talking about James Wales or Trump?
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harry Paget Flashman
Are you talking about James Wales or Trump?
Surely Wales is Trump.
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Right so I am supposed to read his mind, I am supposed to ignore what he wrote in the written language I have known for nearly 40 years, I am supposed to take your and his rants over the NY times, Fox News, NY Post, Simple flying aviation website, AOL articles?
I then have to ignore the fact there is a shortage of air traffic controllers. I have to ignore the fact there is a current legal case ongoing and I have to ignore the fact that the FAA's policies seemingly turned down qualified applicants based on race?
And if we do all that then we still have to believe your position that you have put forward with zero evidence whatsoever?
I mean, you are asking a lot here Bob! The reality is, that there may be something in what was said, however prematurely and crassly it was done. You may need to wrench open that closed mind just a tiny bit to accept it though.
What did the NYT say?
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Re: Washington Air Disaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Dangerous - not particularly. No more than other presidents, and he seems to be trying to clamp down on drugs and crime, and not get engaged in foreign wars, so the jury is out
Loud mouthed. 100%
Inflammatory. Yes, although again im not sure he's alone. I do think a lot of social fabric has become inflamed in recent years by some of the things he is rallying against too if I'm honest.
Horrible. I don't know him. Would I want to be mates with him? I doubt it. Does he seem nice? No he doesn't. Does he seem good natured? Depends on his mood it seems. Do his worst detractors seem nice? No they don't, either.
Opportunistic? What successful politician isn't?
I don't think we have to be totally binary on it all the time though. It doesn't have to be black and white on everything he does and I see that in this example tbh.
So you think that air traffic controllers receiving death threats as the result of what trump said doesn't make him dangerous?
