Trump Announces First Stage Of Israel Gaza Peace Deal 9th October 2025

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Thats what Israel are saying

I wouldn't believe anything they say

They have flattened gaza city in a scorched earth policy

I absolutely blame them 100 percent for that and the hamas recruits its going to provide

---

You blame Hamas 0% for what's happened?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

You blame Hamas 0% for what's happened?

---

I blame Israel 100 percent for basically wiping out gaza city and killing 40000 innocent people

There were choices after October 7th but they were always going to into overkill and a scorched earth policy

There are even more extreme headcases than Netanyahu so incredibly it could have been even worse

What a way to run a country ....trample over other people's land , treat the borders like they are always yours to move then when you are inevitably attacked after years of provoking , fail to listen to anyone and blow everything to bits

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

You blame Hamas 0% for what's happened?

---

Videos online of Hamas executing Palestinians they accuse of being traitors, it's Iraq all over again, no exit strategy with the terror groups running amok and deciding justice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I blame Israel 100 percent for basically wiping out gaza city and killing 40000 innocent people

There were choices after October 7th but they were always going to into overkill and a scorched earth policy

There are even more extreme headcases than Netanyahu so incredibly it could have been even worse

What a way to run a country ....trample over other people's land , treat the borders like they are always yours to move then when you are inevitably attacked after years of provoking , fail to listen to anyone and blow everything to bits

---

Well that's mental, sorry.

You can completely agree that Israels response was disproportionate, horrific, obscene, genocidal or anything else, whilst also recognising that Hamas very much started it and very much could have ended it sooner by releasing hostages.

I see some videos on twitter and the like where Israelis try to clear Netanyahu of responsibility by claiming every death is the fault of Hamas due to Oct 7th.. I think thats proposterous, but so to do I think it's proposterous to not see Hamas' responsibility. They, just like Israel, could have made decision that would have saved tens of thousands of innocent lives. It's crazy as hell not to see that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Heathblue

Videos online of Hamas executing Palestinians they accuse of being traitors, it's Iraq all over again, no exit strategy with the terror groups running amok and deciding justice.

---

It is no surprise that Hamas are trying to reassert their authority - and taking on 'criminal gangs' (aka crime clans who were promoted by Israel to weaken Hamas and also had a major side line in stealing aid), political opponents (especially those Fatah and anti-Hamas activists and fighters who reject Islamism) and the people they regard as traitors and collaborators.

They won't disarm, and short of the IOF rampaging across Gaza again (very likely) there is no military or police force that could be put in place to enforce any sort of disarmament. Because there is no plan - just 20 points on the back of a golf score card and a sickening photo op. Hopefully more aid and a lower level of killing, but that doesn't add up to peace.

Trump will probably lose interest soon. The attention span of a gnat. I imagine he has had his ego massaged enough, put a marker down for the Nobel Prize next year (he hopes) and deflected some of the strong MAGA opposition that was building against the way Netanyahu was playing him.

He even managed to make a Trumpian threat to Hamas yesterday to say they would be disarmed one way or another - with or without violence. Another wave of US/Israeli drones that will kill hundreds of civilians? He has no other plan - he only has sound bites.

Trump also appears to have forgotten his soundbites from a day earlier when he appeared to be condoning, even encouraging, Hamas 'policing' whatever parts of Gaza the Israelis had withdrawn from:

https://abcnews.go.com/International...y?id=126480352

President Donald Trump implied Hamas has been given approval to act as a Palestinian police force in Gaza "for a period of time" in the wake of implementing phase one of the ceasefire agreement.

While en route to the Middle East earlier Monday aboard Air Force One, Trump responded to a question from a reporter about reports of Hamas rearming themselves.

"Well, they [Hamas] are standing because they do want to stop the problems, and they've been open about it, and we gave them approval for a period of time," Trump said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

Well that's mental, sorry.

You can completely agree that Israels response was disproportionate, horrific, obscene, genocidal or anything else, whilst also recognising that Hamas very much started it and very much could have ended it sooner by releasing hostages.

I see some videos on twitter and the like where Israelis try to clear Netanyahu of responsibility by claiming every death is the fault of Hamas due to Oct 7th.. I think thats proposterous, but so to do I think it's proposterous to not see Hamas' responsibility. They, just like Israel, could have made decision that would have saved tens of thousands of innocent lives. It's crazy as hell not to see that.

---

If wales was invaded by a bunch of wurzels and they kept taking land and treating us like shit then it would be inevitable that resistance would get more and more violent and that splinter groups of armed militia....the taffia ....would emerge .....and carry out often shocking attacks

The ultimate blame comes with the invasions and more violence is likely to follow if cardiff for example , was utterly flattened on the withdrawal of the wurzels

Its not very complicated

Give back land by creating a home for the taffies , stop grabbing any more and stop bombing the christ into wales , leaving most of Cardiff completely flattened and without water , buildings , roads , hospitals , schools etc

Insert Palestine for Cardiff and Israel for the wurzels

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

Well that's mental, sorry.

You can completely agree that Israels response was disproportionate, horrific, obscene, genocidal or anything else, whilst also recognising that Hamas very much started it and very much could have ended it sooner by releasing hostages.

I see some videos on twitter and the like where Israelis try to clear Netanyahu of responsibility by claiming every death is the fault of Hamas due to Oct 7th.. I think thats proposterous, but so to do I think it's proposterous to not see Hamas' responsibility. They, just like Israel, could have made decision that would have saved tens of thousands of innocent lives. It's crazy as hell not to see that.

---

Hamas are guilty of atrocities on and after 7 October - of killing about 1200 and abducting 250 - mostly civilians and probably also guilty of rapes and other sickening acts.

The IDF killed between 70 and 200 Israeli civilians that day too - following the Hannibal Directive!

Israeli hostages have been mistreated by Hamas and Islamic Jihad; Palestinian prisoners and detainees (hostages!) have also been mistreated by Israel (allegations of torture and murder on both sides).

But Israel has committed genocide and war crimes on an industrial scale - that cannot be blamed on Hamas whatever their own crimes.

But the 'Trump Peace Plan' that he is backing in is almost identical (at least in the slightly more detailed sketch for Phase 1) to the one that was on the table in June/July 2024. Hamas agreed to that plan; Israel did not.

Joe Biden backed Israel and Trump was going even further from the sidelines to torpedo the talks!

'Tens of thousands of innocent lives' were lost (blown apart, crushed, burnt) in the 15 months after that wasted opportunity. That is on Israel and their chief cheerleaders in the USA!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon1959

Hamas are guilty of atrocities on and after 7 October - of killing about 1200 and abducting 250 - mostly civilians and probably also guilty of rapes and other sickening acts.

The IDF killed between 70 and 200 Israeli civilians that day too - following the Hannibal Directive!

Israeli hostages have been mistreated by Hamas and Islamic Jihad; Palestinian prisoners and detainees (hostages!) have also been mistreated by Israel (allegations of torture and murder on both sides).

But Israel has committed genocide and war crimes on an industrial scale - that cannot be blamed on Hamas whatever their own crimes.

But the 'Trump Peace Plan' that he is backing in is almost identical (at least in the slightly more detailed sketch for Phase 1) to the one that was on the table in June/July 2024. Hamas agreed to that plan; Israel did not.

Joe Biden backed Israel and Trump was going even further from the sidelines to torpedo the talks!

'Tens of thousands of innocent lives' were lost (blown apart, crushed, burnt) in the 15 months after that wasted opportunity. That is on Israel and their chief cheerleaders in the USA!

---

Sure. Are you also saying though that Hamas bears zero responsibility for the state of the Gaza strip and the tens of thousands of deaths?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

Sure. Are you also saying though that Hamas bears zero responsibility for the state of the Gaza strip and the tens of thousands of deaths?

---

Listen up

We have had 300 pages of you playing the lead role at pete and bernis philosophical steakhouse ....

You have your answer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Listen up

We have had 300 pages of you playing the lead role at pete and bernis philosophical steakhouse ....

You have your answer

---

Yeah we have the answer from you. That Hamas bears zero responsibility for thr destroyed city and tens of thousands of lost and ruined lives. I was just wondering if Jon was the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Listen up

We have had 300 pages of you playing the lead role at pete and bernis philosophical steakhouse ....

You have your answer

---

From what I’ve read in this thread, after wading through all the guff. Is that JW has consistently given balanced answers, where as you and Jon 1959 have been so one eyed you’d both qualify to be guests at a cyclops convention.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

Yeah we have the answer from you. That Hamas bears zero responsibility for thr destroyed city and tens of thousands of lost and ruined lives. I was just wondering if Jon was the same.

---

Hamas are responsible for their own actions.

You said of Hamas: 'They, just like Israel, could have made decision that would have saved tens of thousands of innocent lives.'

They made a decision to attack Israel on 7 October after at least six decades of land grabs and provocation in the West Bank, Ben Gvir insulting worshipers at Al-Aqsa, periodic 'wars' against mainly Gazan civilians to 'mow the grass', mass murder of protestors at the border fence, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, destruction of the basis for a future Palestinian state, turning Gaza into the world's biggest open air prison, seizure and caging (without charge or trial) of thousands of Palestinians - including 400 children - and much more.

Hamas and others committed crimes on 7 October and later, and probably gave Israel the excuse it was looking for to escalate its 'war' (other words are more appropriate) on the Palestinian people. But they are not responsible for the mass murder of Palestinian civilians in Gaza and the West Bank - that is all on Israel and the media and politicians who enabled them. Those people are complicit in war crimes, just like Blair and Bush in Iraq.

It is clear from Israeli government statements from 8 October onwards that they were at war with Palestine - not just with Hamas. Civilians have been deliberately targeted from the beginning - euphemisms like 'collateral damage' do not describe it. Israel followed its Dahiya Doctrine (basically kill civilians to demoralise fighters) as part of a political project to empty Gaza!

And while we are talking about the decisions made or not made that could have saved tens of thousands of lives, go back to January this year. There was a plan then too (like June/July 2024) for a ceasefire, return of hostages/detainees, increased aid and withdrawal of the IOF. It lasted long enough for Trump to claim credit before Israel unilaterally broke the truce. Israel - not Hamas. There have been over 21,000 more Palestinians murdered since March this year (70% women and children - most of the men non-combatants) and that is if you just take the Gaza Health Ministry figures which have been accepted by most governments, media and the UN as basically accurate. They do not count the tens of thousands missing under the rubble. They do not headline the injured (3x the dead).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

Sure. Are you also saying though that Hamas bears zero responsibility for the state of the Gaza strip and the tens of thousands of deaths?

---

Don't shoot the messenger but reports abound that the Oct 7 attacks were organised and orchestrated by the Israelis. I'm not suggesting that is true for a moment (I would have expected very loud protestations of innocence by Hamas at the time at the very least so I'm not entirely convinced of this). However I have zero faith in the Israelis so I maintain anything is possible. I can certainly see the strategic benefit in perpetrating such an atrocious attack.

I only mention this to illustrate there are many many nuances and complications to this situation and, as our friend Bill has said quite rightly, most of us will back one side or the other in this wretched business. However, in fairness to Sludge he has ventured the most salient question of all, how would any one of us feel if our land had been usurped by a superior foreign military occupation and we were placed under subjugation and confinement in sorry conditions?

There is enough to suggest in Welsh history that rebellion would be ever present even though we as an ethnic group never suffered anything like the level of abuse the poor Palestinians have had to endure.

https://www.thecanary.co/skwawkbox/2...dmarsdn8syijsb

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uards-son-says

Palestine’s most popular leader, Marwan Barghouti, was beaten unconscious by Israeli prison guards and his family fears for his life, his son has said, citing evidence given by former Palestinian detainees released this week as part of the ceasefire deal.

Arab Barghouti said his 66-year-old father was assaulted by eight guards on 14 September as he was being transferred between Ganot and Megiddo prisons.


Barghouti has something of the Mandela status for Palestinians.

He was kidnapped by Israel from detention by the Palestinian Authority in 2002, and imprisoned on what many external observers consider trumped up charges in a military court. He is Fatah, not Hamas.

He is still the most popular and unifying figure in Palestine and should be a major player in developing a genuine peace process and creating a future Palestinian state.

For that reason the Israelis will not release him, and continue to hold him in solitary confinement when they are not beating him up!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marwan_Barghouti

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dorcus

Don't shoot the messenger but reports abound that the Oct 7 attacks were organised and orchestrated by the Israelis. I'm not suggesting that is true for a moment (I would have expected very loud protestations of innocence by Hamas at the time at the very least so I'm not entirely convinced of this). However I have zero faith in the Israelis so I maintain anything is possible. I can certainly see the strategic benefit in perpetrating such an atrocious attack.

I only mention this to illustrate there are many many nuances and complications to this situation and, as our friend Bill has said quite rightly, most of us will back one side or the other in this wretched business. However, in fairness to Sludge he has ventured the most salient question of all, how would any one of us feel if our land had been usurped by a superior foreign military occupation and we were placed under subjugation and confinement in sorry conditions?

There is enough to suggest in Welsh history that rebellion would be ever present even though we as an ethnic group never suffered anything like the level of abuse the poor Palestinians have had to endure.

---

I agree how its a nuanced issue. Hence being surprised by Sludges use of "zero blame". I can think of few conflicts where such a black and white analysis is less valid and where "who started it" and "who is to blame" is less clear than this one.

People can blame one side more than the other, but I struggle to see how someone can apportion all the blame onto one side or other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesWales

Yeah we have the answer from you. That Hamas bears zero responsibility for thr destroyed city and tens of thousands of lost and ruined lives. I was just wondering if Jon was the same.

---

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt526765

This is what happens when you try to wipe people out

Victims turned into monsters

Another one eyed link on the Palestinian dead returned (many without identification) by Israel - many cable tied, tortured, and shot in the head - others cable tied and crushed under tank tracks.

https://www.thecanary.co/skwawkbox/2...dmarsdn8syijsb

But good news that Turkey is sending a specialist team of 81 people to help locate the remaining hostage bodies under the rubble of buildings blown up by the IOF. They may also be able to retrieve some of the thousands of Palestinian men, women and children who are buried under the same rubble. That is progress, isn't it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpv1nk7dy4yo

Eleven killed after Israel hits bus in Gaza, Hamas-run civil defence says.

Gaza's Hamas-run civil defence says 11 people were killed, all from the same family, after the bus they were in was hit by an Israeli tank shell in northern Gaza.

The Abu Shaaban family, it said, were trying to reach their home to inspect it when the incident happened in the Zeitoun neighbourhood of Gaza City on Friday night.

This is the deadliest single incident involving Israeli soldiers in Gaza since the start of the ceasefire eight days ago.

The Israeli military said soldiers had fired at a "suspicious vehicle" that had crossed the so-called yellow line demarcating the area still occupied by Israeli forces in Gaza.

Israeli soldiers continue to operate in more than half of the Gaza Strip, under the terms of the first phase of the ceasefire agreement.

Civil defence spokesman Mahmud Bassal told AFP news agency the victims were members of the Abu Shaaban family and were killed while "trying to check on their home" in the area.

The dead included women and children, according to the civil defence.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...a-media-office

Israel has violated ceasefire 47 times and killed 38 Palestinians, says Gaza media office.

Gaza’s media office has accused Israel of violating the ceasefire with Hamas 47 times since the truce came into effect in early October, killing 38 Palestinians and wounding another 143.

“These violations have included crimes of direct gunfire against civilians, deliberate shelling and targeting, and the arrest of a number of civilians, reflecting the occupation’s continued policy of aggression despite the declared end of the war,” reads the statement.

Authorities in Gaza called on “the United Nations and the guarantor parties of the agreement to intervene urgently to compel the occupation to end its ongoing aggression and to protect unarmed civilian populations”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...singly-fragile

Israeli airstrikes on Gaza overnight killed at least 104 Palestinians, including children, in what appeared to be the gravest challenge yet to the increasingly fragile US-brokered ceasefire and the deadliest day since the truce began.

The strikes, one of the bloodiest attacks in the two-year war, killed at least 35 children and injured 200 people, according to Gaza’s civil defence agency. They took place hours after Donald Trump said nothing would jeopardise the ceasefire agreement he had helped broker.

Dr Mohammed al-Mughir, the director of humanitarian support and international cooperation at the civil defence in Gaza, told the Guardian: “Among these attacks was the targeting of a cancer patient camp, the Insan camp.”

The toll was confirmed by an Agence France-Presse (AFP) tally of reports from medical officials at five Gaza hospitals that received the dead and wounded.

IDF leaves booby-trap bombs disguised as children's toys in the Gaza city rubble!


https://www.thecanary.co/global/worl...ael-bombs-toys

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jon1959

IDF leaves booby-trap bombs disguised as children's toys in the Gaza city rubble!


https://www.thecanary.co/global/worl...ael-bombs-toys

---

A previous version of this story had a photograph of a toy Teletubby allegedly found in Gaza which had actually been left in the Yemen!!!. This was according to French television.


I trust the Canary about as much as I trust the Daily Mail!! Which is zilch They both have form for telling porkies.

This by the way is not a defence of the appalling IDF. But stories spread by the Hamas controlled Gaza Ministry of Health without any further corroboration by independent sources are pretty dubious in my opinion.