Before his goal I was thinking Etete and Bowler needed to get the hook at half-time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
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Before his goal I was thinking Etete and Bowler needed to get the hook at half-time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
He had a good game today and looked like he was enjoying himself. I wanted him to take that free kick that Ng put wide as I think his confidence was up and a goal would have really helped him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Objectively, he was part of a pretty feeble attacking performance that lacked cohesion but hopefully he can get a run of games and build on today's showing.
Everyone was!Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpersforGoalposts
Bowler is an odd one, before his goal he was involved but it wasn’t quite clicking, poor passes, touches but at the same time he was getting involved down that side. A confident Bowler could be huge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
I do feel like we have worked a lot on our shape, we looked brighter until they made a triple sub. I think we sat back to much but who doesn’t at 1-0.
But if that was us playing like Watford everyone would say we could be there all night and not score. Alnick had a few camera saves but nothing you wouldn’t expect him to save.
True but, as someone else said on here, prior to Bowler scoring I’d have happily subbed all three of our attacking players. The first half was poor but we looked decent for the first 15 mins of the second half.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo
Resolute defending and some luck meant we got away with it but the last half hour was very nervy and Watford had easily the better of the first half.
It wasn’t convincingly at all to me but I’ll take the win.
(I thought that the young left back from Man City looked all over the place when he came on and Watford clearly targeted JC in the first half)
I missed the first 20mins of the first half and kinda agreed until the goal although still felt we looked decent. Colwill had a decent shot and Etete had a moment he should have done bette with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
Thought Man City guy was decent but I don’t think we will see him at left back, the one pass in behind him he had no idea where he was.
People critisizng Etete ...hardly surprising on this forum tbh so im not surprised but I am left wondering exactly what they thought he shouldve done better?
He is no world beater, but then hes young too. He is CLEARLY told to sit in deep and focus on his defensive duties from the front..he seems to be every where but waiting up front like a typical striker. What kind of striking opportunities are you expecting him to create doing this kind of dogged (an imo bullshit) role?
tldr? use your eyes and actually read between the lines a bit
How about for starters:Quote:
Originally Posted by Blooburd
Use his considerable size to out muscle his marker. Just once maybe.
Control the ball.
Not conceded possession so easily and regularly.
Pass to his team mates.
I’m not even asking him to score…..
if these are his weaknesses ...why the hell are we putting him in a role to do that MORE? stop getting him to drop deep. Every time he lost the ball as you say..he was sitting real deep trying to tidy up our non existent midfield. And that is not the first time this season either!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
he clearly knows how to dance through a few defenders. He clearly can strike the ball well when in the box. He has some composure.
Have him press their defenders sure...but dont make him drop into our own half..dont put him on the near post defending corners just because hes big..why not trust the defenders to defender and yknow get our strikers some service to do their bit
is it really rocket science like 90% of this forum thinks? open your eyes
Jeezzzz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blooburd
A question for those knocking Etete, why do you think Bulut kept him on for eighty one minutes when he usually takes him off after about an hour?
Work rate Bob. He puts a shift in. I think the word 'knocking' is a little unfair, it sounds like people are picking on him. I think that the criticism is merited, although it should only go on for so long. Although i did compare him to Jarvis cocker, which is uncalled for.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I think the criticism has increased a lot in the last six weeks or so and I tried to set out a bit of an alternative argument in my blog piece because I believe asking a young striker to succeed in a team which sets up like we’ve been doing in recent months is almost impossible. Diedhiou is an experienced international player who has succeeded in this division in the past, but, apart from a few headers flicked on, he was unable to carry out many of the basic striker functions. I don’t blame him for that because he was left to cope by himself with the service to him poor. In a way,that was to be expected as we were intent on protecting a lead late in the game, but was the task Diedhiou faced that much different to what Etete experiences when he starts? Whoever plays as our number nine gets left isolated even in home matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
I agree that it was work rate which kept Etete on as long as that. I’m not sure I’d want my striker dropping back to play right back even if we’re one up, but I reckon Bulut would have loved that aspect of his game.
Etete ran around a lot and defended well especially in the second half.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
That said Diedhiou won more in the air in the time that he was on than Etete did all game. Maybe it was because he was fresher but at least he posed some sort of physical threat.
Another poster above mentioned that Etete has instinct in front of goal (when given the chance) - he was provided with a really decent opportunity in the first half yesterday just outside the box on the right hand side (by Colwill, I think) and just fell over claiming a foul…..
Look we all really want him to do well but this sounds like another striker being excused because of our style of play but this time under a different manager (see Bobby G under a host of different managers)Quote:
Originally Posted by Blooburd
At some stage the player has to take responsibility and we have to accept that he is or isn’t good enough.
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I think too many have written him off already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
For me he needs to add a bit of bite to his game.
I did think he needed to bulk up but I’ve seen him sprint quicker than most strikers of his size and don’t want to lose that.
I think he hasn’t been helped on the persistence to play inverted wingers and his naivety for his positioning but if he continues to put in that kind of effort I’ll be happy seeing his name in the squad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
How many of our strikers have prospered under the style of play favoured in recent seasons? Kieffer, then the list ends - even he had the benefit of having the presence of a very good Championship/Premier League creative player in Wilson in the team
Because Diedhiou is not match fit and he has learned that Meite is a wide player. I expect Diedhiou to be "eased in" over the next few games - unless of course he turns out to be DooDoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Yeah, I have to admit I like to give young players the benefit of the doubt, and I can see the talent that Etete has in there somewhere - but I'm not sure I see what others are seeing on this one. I thought he was very poor other than the one layoff to Colwill and consistently lost possession or was muscled out of it in key areas. If the only criteria for a striker is to run around a lot then we could have just held onto Mark Harris or call Isaac Davies back from Kortrijk.
Attachment 6046
before the subs Vs after the subs
Agree re. Harris and especially Davies, provided of course the ball is played up to them below head height ! Etete ? There's no doubting his work rate but I struggle to see another Championship side having him up front - I'd sway him for Rotherham's Hugill any day..Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Bluebird
I'd prefer Hugill too and was disappointed when he joined Rotherham but playing up front for Cardiff City has been a thankless task for a number of seasons now. If a ball does go anywhere near a forward, which is a rarity, it's almost always a fight ball which is what Hugill can do far better than Etete. Regarding Etete and chances as he gets scraps I'm not surprised he snatches at them.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish
Exactly my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
We need to find another striker of Moore’s ability which is very hard to do I know.
But just pretending that Etete is it or will become it over time and blaming the manager/tactics/everything/body else in the meantime is just naive.
The comments about Hugill are interesting though. He is certainly no world beater but it felt as though he made a significantly bigger contribution in most games than Etete does currently.
Don’t know what the Watford commentators had been told about Etete, at the start of the game they commented that the Watford defence would be in for a tough old time, being aggressively bullied by the unit that was Etete.(or words to that effect). Trades Descriptions could have taken them to the cleaners.
Huggill was a right handful when he was at Preston and, although it turned out that he didn’t quite make it in the Premier League, he had a multi million pound move to West Ham and was much sought after by Championship clubs when he was loaned out. However, when he was Etete’s age he was playing for Gateshead after being rejected by Port Vale - to write Etete off on the basis of him being stuck up front by himself as a 21/22 year old seems a bit premature to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
Hugill was twenty nine when he was here and scored four times in nineteen appearances in all competitions, this season he’s scored three in thirty two matches, albeit for a bottom of the table team. Etete has scored five times in all competitions this season in twenty six games - not great, but not too different a scoring rate to what Hugill achieved here in 2022.
It's interesting that many wanted Hugill to stay, but he's done nothing of note since leaving us to suggest we would have been better off if we could have got him back.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Bob, It's a bit general to say that etete isn't doing what he should do because of the way we play, it's vague, it sort of exonerates him from responsibility. Of course, the players around him are important, and the tactics employed. A goalkeeper can shift 5 goals and still have a good game, but we can say why the keeper has had a good game, we can separate the things that the keeper has no influence over due to poor play and tactics, but still acknowledge his ability and potential by the good things he does. So, a question for you. What does Etete do well? He rarely scores, so what else are you seeing that gives you some hope-Touch, intelligence, movement, ability to bring other players into a game? or are you just sticking up for him based on our tactics and style of play, without any real evidence of his natural ability that could one day pay off.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
It's all well and good to make comparisons with other players, but we need to see something as well in order for us as supporters to think that he has got a chance at this level. He works very hard and he's brave, he doedn't hide and he possesses a great attitude. After that i can't really see anything ability wise that stands out and make me think that he's got something for us to hold on to until he gets abit more experienced and there's a tactical change. Over to you :thumbup:
Good question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Out of interest, did you identify clear qualities in Glatzel when he was here? He’s scored 13 and got 5 assists in 20 games in another good season with Hamburg. Did you see that coming when he left us?
I was willing Glatzel to do well and i never really got in on criticising him. He was a better player than Etete, but if i'm being honest, i couldn't see that much in Glatzels game that got me enthused. So, back to you, that's a great question, and it sort of adds a bit of weight towards bob's argument. Good Work :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Baloo
Etete may one day make it in the championship but he is nowhere near that at the moment, but until Thursday he is all we had, as the manager looks like he wants a physical presence up top.
If we finished up his contract in the summer, where would he end up? L2 teams can't afford projects,he'd also get thrown around like a rag doll, has he shown enough for L1? Not for me.
As said earlier players like Hugil, Moore, and Lambert had to drop out of the EFL to develop physically and adapt their game. I can only think of Crouch who was similar in being tall but not really a target man, but he was more accomplished.
I think he leaves in the summer
Bit of an overreaction that… I like Mark Harris but he’s got 8 goals in 27 games in league one this season. There’s no way Etete is less physical or a worse player, he’ll be fine dropping down a level.
I think it's fair to use the way we play as a reason to defend many striker who have played for us in the recent past. I did say that other than Kieffer Moore, no striker has prospered at City since maybe Kewynne Jones, but, on second thoughts. if the criteria of judging how good or bad a striker is comes down to how many goals they score, then Sory Kaba could be included as well - there can also be a direct comparison between Etete and Kaba because they were at the club a the same time and I'd say Kaba wins that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
However, we have seen experienced and, in some cases, proven strikers struggle to make an impact with us. Looking back, I'd say Etete is in line that includes Glatzel, Harris, Watters, Collins, Ikpeazu, Hugill, Wickham, Meite and Ugbo from recent seasons as strikers who found it hard to make an impact at Cardiff.
Someone like Wickham was a quality player in his day and was over the top by the time he came here, but the rest of them were older than Etete and of an age where they could not be said to have been on the brink of retirement. I'd also say that, for as long as I can remember, City have insisted on playing with a "big guy up front", a traditional target man who will battle for high balls knocked up to him. All of the players I've listed, plus Etete, have played as a target man for us even though it's not a role they're best suited for - I'd put Glatzel, Harris, Watters, Meite and Etete in that category.
Although, there a clear differences between them, I see some similarities between Etete and Kenneth Zohore in that they're big blokes up front who are far happier to have balls played into their feet rather than their heads because neither of them are very good at heading the ball. It's not a coincidence that Etete's most effective piece of target man play on Saturday came when the ball was played into his feet and he set up Colwill for a shot which didn't miss by that much, I think Etete has shown when he's more confident that he probably is now that he has quick feet for someone of his size and, for me, this is a skill of his that City have failed to utilise as we continue to treat him as someone who is going to win a lot of headers.
Etete was poor in pre season games and that carried into the first week or two of the season, but it's a fact that he'd scored five in his first ten appearances (six of them were as a sub), before he picked up a hamstring injury which kept him out for almost a month. He's not scored since then and his confidence in front of goal is suffering s he's snatching at chances and making wrong decisions, but I'd say his goals at Watford last season and against Coventry and Blackburn (in the League Cup) this time around show that he can be a good finisher.
It's not Etete's fault that we've spent the first half of the season without a quality Championship level striker and i would appear in recent weeks that Bulut has settled on him as the most reliable of the three strikers we had during that time. Diedhiou will surely become first choice once he's settled in and that may benefit Etete who will be coming on in the last half hour of games.
For me it’s the lack of ‘dog’ in his game, the lack of aggression. That’s not an age thing though and perhaps it can’t be taught, it’s just an individual’s temperament. Prior to the game the Watford commentators were saying their defenders were in for a torrid afternoon against Etete, don’t know where that info came from, he’s a centre back’s dream opponent. A few coaching sessions with Heider Helgusson would teach him a thing or two, if only.
Saying all that though, I did think his performance at Vicarage Rd was one of his better ones. Didn’t have a lot to surpass mind but let’s hope the penny drops for him and he realises that he needs to step up considerably to carry on at this level.
surprisingly spot on :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Atleast one person gets it on here
The EFL 'Team Of The Week' features Jak Alnwick..... and super sub Kieffer Moore!
I did yeah . I thought he was quite a silky footballer being asked to play smash and grab football. And he was a bit unlucky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baloo
I thought Ette was very good at prancing ,not so good at football. perhaps he will develop, unusual to see him developing at this level.
Good to see two of our players get in :facepalm:Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Kion has a footballer in him somewhere, he must do, I cant see Spurs giving a player 2 X 2 year contracts, they must have seen something
for me, he is too weak on and off the ball, would a spell in L2 or the National league do him good, yes it would, it mist give him some drive and determination
Myself and my daughter were talking about him on Saturday, Bath City have just signed James Alabi, Now he is a lower league ( on occasion ) and National League CF, looks like a handful ( though didnt see much of that on Saturday ) my daughter said I wonder if Etete would look good at this level ( Nat league South ) she didnt think he would as he doesnt have the strength both on and off the ball, its a fair call, I argued the above that he must have something to get 2 contracts with Spurs