Printable View
I wouldn't have said anything at all if the police commissioner for Cardiff was a ConservativeQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
It's got nothing to do with this
Direct any issue to the poster who brought this up
Alun Micheal should resign irrespective of his political stance
that isn't ironicQuote:
Originally Posted by SOXY BOY
.
Sludge the boys were traveling towards the police, saw them did a u-turn, so the police traveled in the same direction for a short period of time, the police then dropped back and even moved in a different direction from them ending up half a mile away, how the hell is that a police chase?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
The BBC verify team got it wrong using one camera at one time, and so did the people who went on a riot.
Sludge it was not a scooter it was a Surron electric bike/ motorbike https://surron.co.uk/pages/surron-bike-availabilityQuote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
You are going down the same alleywayQuote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
The impression given by the police .....and alun Micheal who works for them .....wax that the police were not involved and their contact with the boys has only come out now
They should have said they were not chasing but were following the boys straight away when asked about it
A day later and they were still saying their officers were not involved
That's for them to explain now
How were the officers involved in the crash when they were in a different street at the time?Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Hes all over the place. You wont get him to concede he is wrong though, he is exhausting.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bloop
He could give my missus a good run for her money in always being right when they are clearly wrong.
He will just keep on, and on, and on, and on sticking to his viewpoint even when its been proved wrong.
He needs serious help.
Police officers were involved in the incident of the boys being followed , even if only for a periodQuote:
Originally Posted by The Bloop
I find that ironic given your liking for the sauceQuote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
Who is saying the officers were involved in the crash ?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bloop
Not me
You are
South Wales Police were involved in following the boys which eventually the force has admitted
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...first-minister
UK government created conditions that led to Cardiff riots, says Mark Drakeford.
Would the tragedy have been referred to the IOPC and subsequent investigation been carried out without the media attention in this case ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65725350
Irony, whenever a person says something or does something that departs from what they(or we) expect them to say or do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Maybe not ?Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
But either way it's correct I would think that it has been ?
OQuote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
I am no fan of the tory government but drakeford should leave these sort of comments until after the boys have been laid to rest and investigations into the police activity on the lead up to the crash have taken placeQuote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
I would repeat a previous comment in another thread about Mark Drakeford.......but would most likely get deleted like the previous one....Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/new...-teenagers-ely
It certainly looks like the police watchdog has far more teeth these days
That remit seems to be exactly what is required
If only this kind of body had been around when the Cardiff 5 were fitted up
To be fair that was politically motivated and like him at this time it's not really appropriateQuote:
Originally Posted by Maurice Swan
Get over it Maurice ffsQuote:
Originally Posted by Maurice Swan
You’re like a big baby
“I had a post deleted” boo fecking hoo.
The bike was "an early birthday present". £4k, by the way. Kids were living well consider the pictures of them in branded jackets worth a couple hundred, too.
Probably would've been better to say it was nicked, now they're gonna get the DWP snooping around. :hehe:
The first picture released did show the Police following two lads on an e bike even though they are not meant to be driven on the road or to carry passengers. They are off road bikes only. However, later pictures revealed the Police turning off onto another road and the accident happened when the Police were a long way away on another street. However, it's odd that the Police did turn off especially as the bike was carrying a passenger with the pillion dragging his feet along the ground. Nonetheless I can't see how the rioting was warranted.
When i heard that Drakeford was chairing a meeting of interested groups I thought that was a good thing - exactly the type of thing that the Welsh government should be doing but to turn the event into a political event by blaming the UK government for the rioting was crass and inappropriate. Incidentally I think Alun Michael is one of the good guys especially when he was an MP who left no stone unturned to get to the root of a problem. To condemn him this early is simply wrong. He will get to the bottom of this and, if the Police were in any way to blame, (which is doubtful on present evidence) I believe he will say so.
With respect many commenting here clearly do not know the area. The police are using that to their advantage. It isn't strange the police turned the other way as there are bollards a bike can get through but not a car. Police had no choice but to turn the other way. There is no dispute now the boys were being actively pursued (although not chased with blue lights).Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
Also not seen it mentioned here but many think the boys were hit by a bus (as was widely reported) but cardiff bus issued a statement yesterday that none of their vehicles were involved.
The families have reported police were telling people at the scene no police were involved yet a video was being shown to people in the crowd at the scene of the chase (active pursuit) which is what sparked the trouble.
I think drakeford should have kept politics out of it , it's an embarrassment in my opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
This is a terrible accident and Alun Micheal and South Wales Police have been economical with the truth here
I think heads should roll , the big wigs have all looked completely incompetent
Wales problems, not his faultQuote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
His Son, not his fault
Deaths in his own constituency, not his fault
NHS backlogs not his fault
You can't drive into Wales without a queue, not his fault
Being overtaken on the roads by ten-year-old girls on roller skates, is not his fault
Cardiff City is in a mess, not his fault - OK I'll concede on that one.
What a waste of space Wales is washed up!
:hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
Turns out the police turned away because the kids were able to get through bollards at the end of a street and obviously the police van couldn't you can't believe a word they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
Sorry I hadn't seen this but exactly right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
The BBC are all over this now, the police tried to say they had it wrong, but they then found this out, probably much more to come out too.
https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/23548176.ely-cardiff-mother-crash-victim-says-police-killed-son/Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
One of the victims mothers says the police killed her son and she can't say anything else.
I think it's understandable why some people , especially those related to those boys , don't have faith or trust in some of those police statementsQuote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
It's hardly something to emulate is it ?
I can understand why the parents are blaming the Police particularly the way the Police have handled this.Ultimately,the Police didn’t buy this e-bike/scooter and make the young guys ride it illegally. Can someone clear up, at what age, can somebody ride this bikes legally, because if it’s 17,why buy it for their son? Also, if they didn’t hit a bus, as seems to be the case, what did they hit?
Not sure on the specific bike but you can ride an e bike on the road from the age of 14.Quote:
Originally Posted by SOXY BOY
https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rul...20or%20insured.
Exactly this. The boys were heading up Stanway rd after turning in to it from Archer rd. At the top end of Stanway rd (Snowden rd end) there are bollards, but enough space for a bike to get through, although with a bit of difficulty. The police would have known this so turned left down Howell rd which takes you onto Grand Avenue, turn right, and then 2nd right takes you onto Wilson rd, travel up wilson rd for 100 mts or so and you're at the bollard end of Stanway rd and the junction of Snowden rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
No they didn’t. This blame culture does my ****ing head in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
I don't want to get too deep into this, but in my opinion, The police were pursuing these lads, and i don't think that was a great idea with two of them on this machine with no safety gear on, especially helmets. I fully understand that it was the boys decision to go out on the bike with no gear on, and the parents or parents must've known this had been happening, but i can understand why people may be annoyed at why the police decided to pursue these boys. The biggest threat to these lads being caught was probably the bike being confiscated rather than any conviction. It's a shit show whichever way you look at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by J R Hartley
I don't think from the following link provided earlier that the bike met the criteria for riding on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
https://surron.co.uk/pages/surron-bike-availability
The bikes are marketed as off road bikes and do not have pedals as the law requires and from the look of it are not designed to carry passengers either.
Either way the death of these two boys is an absolute tragedy.
As I understand it, Cardiff buses are saying none of their vehicles were involved and the police are saying they weren’t at the scene of the accident, so until it’s established who hit the bike or whether one of the other two parties are lying, there doesn’t seem much pointin looking to blame anyone now apart from where events are clear. First the bike was being ridden without protective clothing being worn and that,after denying it at first,the police were following the bike - whether they were chasing it is open to argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
I wouldn’t be surprised if you were right when you say it was fear regarding the bike being confiscated that was a leading factor in the tragedy.
I'm in Ely most days Bob (working days) and these scooters are everywhere. The general consensus amongst those that ride them is that the police will impound them if they are caught or identified using them, that's why plenty of the people who use them wear face coverings so that they can't be identified. There's also the belief amongst the authorities that some youngsters using these scooters, bikes, are delivering drugs, popping about the estate so to speak. Not that i have any evidence to say that is happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I think the issue boils down to why did the police play silly buggers with what happened ?
Saying nothing and arguing they are refusing to comment due to deaths or a possible review is fair enough
But after comments by Alun Micheal , that Superintendent that walked back in the building and the female assistant chief constable I thought it was a mixture of incompetence , passing the buck and denial
It was a comedy show and the subject matter was extremely worrying