Songs Of Praise

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

If the only answer to the question please provide evidence of God is .....read the bible .....its not really a debate is it ?

For example if a road is built around Washington and it reduces , after scientific analysis , traffic congestion by 37 percent , we have a fact .

If you have a heart problem and see a cardiologist and he or she diagnoses a blocked artery an operation can be performed, scientifically, to remove that blockage

Another fact

Now God is said by his followers to perform miracles and speak to people

What miracles performed by God, since he's been around , which is for ever apparently are based in fact ?

We all support Cardiff City , that's not an opinion or a point of view , we support Cardiff City , which is based in Cardiff , Wales

Thats a fact

We play at the Cardiff City stadium , thats a fact

You live in America , thats a fact

The President is Joe Biden

Thats a fact

So over to you , as its not be provided yet ......please put forward one fact that proves that there is a God, that he has and does perform miracles , that he is very powerful etc

Not the views of a priest , of a book ........a fact

I don't know if you are a Christian but you know and I know and the Christians and people of other faiths have just that ......faith , belief .......and thats fine but its not fact .

Most of faith is about fear . Fear of illness , disease and ultimately death . Most people go to church on a Sunday to chat , listen to the priest and pray that there is going to be an afterlife .

I am now definitely off to listen to Slayer , South Of Heaven

God Bless You ��

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What about the miracle of us getting promoted in 2018 sludge? Devine intervention?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

And do you think that the reason they are Christians is that they chose Christianity or because it was brought to them when the continent was taken over by missionaries , who spread the word of Christianity ?

Why do you think that on the whole the North and North East of Africa is Islamic ?

Its all cobblers to me however its clear that the tory party and its followers attend church in their droves which is odd given the tory parties slant on welfare , immigration etc

If there is a god and he's kind , caring and all loving I can't see him being a tory

Anyway I am off to listen to Black Sabbath , talk to Satan and practice the dark arts

If God loves us all I will be let in and won't have to go to church after all

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I give you a fact about the number of Christians in Africa and straightaway you dismiss it. Of course missionaries told them of Christianity, how else would they know about it?

A few facts...science is progressive. What you think is fact based now may change...ie the sun moves around the earth, later the earth circles the sun, later the earth doesn't exactly circle the sun it's more ecliptical.


Fact...I bloke I knew very well who ran an intensive care unit. He told me that within a day or so of seeing a patient he could determine whether they would, with care, recover or not. He based everything on facts, blood oxygen, electrolytes, microbiology, weight, age etc.....all facts. Sometimes he said that he came across patients where all the science said they should be dead. But they weren't and they recovered. He had no rational answer for this. I don't know if he was a Christian or not, we never discussed it.

This bloke was one of the most intelligent people I had ever met. He was a clinical physiologist. He lived on facts.

Ricky Gervais sums it up well for me.

"If you took every book and record of every religion and destroyed it, 1000 years from now, those religions would NEVER return as the same. Ever. There might be religions, but they would be different.

"If you took every book and text about science and destroyed it, 1000 years from now, they would ALL be back. Exactly the same with the exact same information."

Religion is a man made control tool, fear is a really good motivator.

This has been a good debate but no one (on either side) has come up with anything different than what has gone before.

Personally I think we'd move on as a human race if we eradicated religion from the face of the earth, that's my opinion.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I give you a fact about the number of Christians in Africa and straightaway you dismiss it. Of course missionaries told them of Christianity, how else would they know about it?

A few facts...science is progressive. What you think is fact based now may change...ie the sun moves around the earth, later the earth circles the sun, later the earth doesn't exactly circle the sun it's more ecliptical.


Fact...I bloke I knew very well who ran an intensive care unit. He told me that within a day or so of seeing a patient he could determine whether they would, with care, recover or not. He based everything on facts, blood oxygen, electrolytes, microbiology, weight, age etc.....all facts. Sometimes he said that he came across patients where all the science said they should be dead. But they weren't and they recovered. He had no rational answer for this. I don't know if he was a Christian or not, we never discussed it.

This bloke was one of the most intelligent people I had ever met. He was a clinical physiologist. He lived on facts.

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Isn’t that the point with science, you observe and adjust based on what you see. Rather than just stick with what somebody else has previously written down? It moves on.

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Originally Posted by Baloo

Isn’t that the point with science, you observe and adjust based on what you see. Rather than just stick with what somebody else has previously written down? It moves on.

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Yeah exactly there has been a weird trend recently (I think since Covid) of referring to the science as if it’s some kind of deity. And lisvaneblue seems to be making exactly the same mistake.

We don’t know everything there is to know from a scientific point of view but we are learning more all the time.

Also the body being ridiculously resilient at times isn’t proof of a god.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

I dunno, but it seems as though some of the most “tolerant” posters on this message board are only “tolerant” to those that agree with their views.

They also seem to hunt in packs like a bunch of school cyber bully’s and their toadies.

It genuinely makes me sad that a civil debate is hard to have, particularly when you are put on the back foot from the start.
Nuance doesn’t matter anymore l guess, you are just simply pigeon holed.

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I’m very tolerant of religious people, just having a bit of fun in this thread.

I also don’t think it is good to be “tolerant” of all views, why tolerate someone’s views if they’re backwards or harmful to others?

I also don’t get what pointing out that there have been bad atheists achieves. It’s a complete misnomer.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Yeah exactly there has been a weird trend recently (I think since Covid) of referring to the science as if it’s some kind of deity. And lisvaneblue seems to be making exactly the same mistake.

We don’t know everything there is to know from a scientific point of view but we are learning more all the time.

Also the body being ridiculously resilient at times isn’t proof of a god.

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I don't think science is a deity. Point I was making to Sludge is that science evolves. In his posts he keeps referring to science and scientists in the way you mention. He endlessly goes on about facts and that is exactly what I was giving in in my response.

Science means knowledge

Additional data and information increases our knowledge in due course. No-one owns science and the greatest minds around the world contribute to the knowledge of mankind and no-one can set in stone that pool of knowledge at a certain juncture.

Religion is the exact opposite. In a week when I have been inoculated against a global pandemic and have every reason to believe that the Mars landing took place I am asked to believe in a talking snake and that people living thousands of years ago and in primitive environments had all the answers.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Science means knowledge

Additional data and information increases our knowledge in due course. No-one owns science and the greatest minds around the world contribute to the knowledge of mankind and no-one can set in stone that pool of knowledge at a certain juncture.

Religion is the exact opposite. In a week when I have been inoculated against a global pandemic and have every reason to believe that the Mars landing took place I am asked to believe in a talking snake and that people living thousands of years ago and in primitive environments had all the answers.

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Just to add to your pool of scientific knowledge. I hope you were vaccinated not inoculated.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Just to add to your pool of scientific knowledge. I hope you were vaccinated not inoculated.

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Same thing?

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Just to add to your pool of scientific knowledge. I hope you were vaccinated not inoculated.

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inoculate
/ɪˈnɒkjʊleɪt/
verb
treat with a vaccine to produce immunity against a disease; vaccinate.
"he inoculated his tenants against smallpox"

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Science means knowledge

Additional data and information increases our knowledge in due course. No-one owns science and the greatest minds around the world contribute to the knowledge of mankind and no-one can set in stone that pool of knowledge at a certain juncture.

Religion is the exact opposite. In a week when I have been inoculated against a global pandemic and have every reason to believe that the Mars landing took place I am asked to believe in a talking snake and that people living thousands of years ago and in primitive environments had all the answers.

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Thought we had exhausted the Rees-Mogg discussion.

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Thought we had exhausted the Rees-Mogg discussion.

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

inoculate
/ɪˈnɒkjʊleɪt/
verb
treat with a vaccine to produce immunity against a disease; vaccinate.
"he inoculated his tenants against smallpox"

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There is an important scientific difference. I'll leave it to you to look it up the detail. Smallpox 'jab' being called an inoculation is largely correct.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

There is an important scientific difference. I'll leave it to you to look it up the detail. Smallpox 'jab' being called an inoculation is largely correct.

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I'll look it up in due course and thanks for educating me.
Feeling very rough with flu-like symptoms at the mo and still in bed.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I'll look it up in due course and thanks for educating me.
Feeling very rough with flu-like symptoms at the mo and still in bed.

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Maybe you really were innoculated :sherlock:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I'll look it up in due course and thanks for educating me.
Feeling very rough with flu-like symptoms at the mo and still in bed.

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Honestly sorry to hear that. I think you mentioned having your first jab recently so trust it’s a reaction.
Hope you feel better very soon

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

Honestly sorry to hear that. I think you mentioned having your first jab recently so trust it’s a reaction.
Hope you feel better very soon

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Cheers. It's a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things. I'm a little surprised as I usually have the constitution of an elephant (and have the ears to match) :-)

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Inoculation is the act of introducing a vaccine into a person's body. It can be used in other contexts, such as when a culture is inoculated with body fluids (such as from a nasal swab) to test for the presence of a bacterium or virus.

Vaccination is the process of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into a nostril.2

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Waiting for someone to explain the difference here

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

I don't think science is a deity. Point I was making to Sludge is that science evolves. In his posts he keeps referring to science and scientists in the way you mention. He endlessly goes on about facts and that is exactly what I was giving in in my response.

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It evolves but there is proof for every bit of it.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Waiting for someone to explain the difference here

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Just found this

"Although inoculation and vaccination are sometimes used interchangeably, one is ultimately an act and the other is the process that spurs immunity. By definition:

Inoculation is the act of introducing a vaccine into a person's body. It can be used in other contexts, such as when a culture is inoculated with body fluids (such as from a nasal swab) to test for the presence of a bacterium or virus.

Vaccination is the process of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into a nostril"

K

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Waiting for someone to explain the difference here

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It stems from smallpox back in the 1700s. Inoculation was achieved by injecting a small amount of smallpox to get the body to react and develop immunity. I think back then people were scratched with rather the needles we know today. Jenner discovered that using weaker or attenuated cowpox into someone the body developed immunity for smallpox. The Latin word for cow is vacca.....so says it all really

Today vaccines use attenuated, or modified viruses, just as Jenner discovered, to get an immune response from the body

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

K

It stems from smallpox back in the 1700s. Inoculation was achieved by injecting a small amount of smallpox to get the body to react and develop immunity. Jenner discovered that using weaker or attenuated cowpox into someone the body developed immunity for smallpox. The Latin word for cow is vacca.....so says it all really

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Gotcha....or have I? :sherlock:

[QUOTE=Croesy Blue;5170040]It evolves but there is proof for every bit of it.[/QUOTE

Progress in biological science is frequently made without proof. Having evidence to suggest X or Y is the way it works. So there is not proof for every bit of it.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Gotcha....or have I? :sherlock:

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Have another look at my post as I added a few sentences for clarification

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Waiting for someone to explain the difference here

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Dr John Campbell explains the difference 30 seconds into this video when discussing human trials.

https://youtu.be/Qr6Tn5DU_Sw

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

Dr John Campbell explains the difference 30 seconds into this video when discussing human trials.

https://youtu.be/Qr6Tn5DU_Sw

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Excellent, thanks. Something to put on the 'What I have learned this week' thread:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Excellent, thanks. Something to put on the 'What I have learned this week' thread:thumbup:

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No worries 👍

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

Dr John Campbell explains the difference 30 seconds into this video when discussing human trials.

https://youtu.be/Qr6Tn5DU_Sw

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

Dr John Campbell explains the difference 30 seconds into this video when discussing human trials.

https://youtu.be/Qr6Tn5DU_Sw

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I think that's what I was saying, but he's using the latest human challenge study as a very good example.

[QUOTE=lisvaneblue;5170065]

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

It evolves but there is proof for every bit of it.[/QUOTE

Progress in biological science is frequently made without proof. Having evidence to suggest X or Y is the way it works. So there is not proof for every bit of it.

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It’s made using evidence backed hypotheses, you cannot seriously compare this to the belief in a god.

[QUOTE=Croesy Blue;5170111]

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue

It’s made using evidence backed hypotheses, you cannot seriously compare this to the belief in a god.

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I wasn't I was just saying that your comments about proof at each stage is wrong

Boris just used the word 'inoculated'.....

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Boris just used the word 'inoculated'.....

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And even Boris is correct once a day.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Boris just used the word 'inoculated'.....

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I hope everything else he said is more accurate