Stay in the EU petition

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I guess you'd vote for Welsh Independence and removal of the extra taxation Wales gets from the UK and the large chunks of dosh the EU sends our way, then.

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No. I am happy to be part of the UK. Always have been. Once we are out of Europe, then our voting and energy should be concentrating on electing a government that treats all parts of the UK fairer. Getting handouts from Europe is no reason to stay. It’s quite pathetic really. There is enough wealth in the UK to improve conditions in parts of Wales, the north east, and other parts of the UK that have been ignored for yrs.
If Wales had a vote for independence and it came back a yes. I would support that to. That’s what democracy is all about.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

I voted to leave, because i don’t believe there is any need for a European Union. It’s just another huge conglomerate that was solely devised, imo, as another “jobs for the boys” set up.
My decision had nothing to do with any immigration policy, which gets aimed at leave voters regularly.
We didn’t get the chance to vote on the decision to join the original “common market”, we were just hoodwinked in in the early 70’s with the premise of inner circle trade deals.
Since then it has slowly grown arms and legs, collecting new member countries who are all up to their eyes in debt, with no foreseeable way of paying any of it off.
I’m a firm believer that countries should stand on their own 2 feet, and do their best to grow their own economy, and spread the wealth amongst all its citizens. ( a pipe dream really) but that’s how it should be.
I feel the EU is a corrupt organisation. That fact that it’s proving so difficult to leave, proves that point. If a member country like the UK voted to leave, then it should be a simple process, with no veiled threats and no hidden agendas. No “deals” should be needed.
That’s just my thoughts and reasons as to why I voted to leave. Many on here will disagree and pick holes in my opinions, but we are all different and all have a different outlook on things.

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It’s proving so difficult to leave because of the U.K. though. It’s proving difficult to leave because it’s protecting its member states.

The wealth that’s in the U.K. is improved by being in the eu. Our wealth will be sufficiently reduced through leaving.

No deals are needed unless we want to continue to trade internationally. The deals are needed because of international trade and because of the Irish border. If we want to generate wealth to improve this country international trade is required.

I respect your reason for voting and I agree it can be a corrupt organisation but so can the British government. My opinion is the we are better off improving the eu from within than being out and making the poorer in our country poorer.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

It’s proving so difficult to leave because of the U.K. though. It’s proving difficult to leave because it’s protecting its member states.

The wealth that’s in the U.K. is improved by being in the eu. Our wealth will be sufficiently reduced through leaving.

No deals are needed unless we want to continue to trade internationally. The deals are needed because of international trade and because of the Irish border. If we want to generate wealth to improve this country international trade is required.

I respect your reason for voting and I agree it can be a corrupt organisation but so can the British government. My opinion is the we are better off improving the eu from within than being out and making the poorer in our country poorer.

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I also respect your opinions on why we should stay.
I guess what the eventual outcome will be nobody knows. At least we’ll both still be City fans once the dust settles. 👍

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

I also respect your opinions on why we should stay.
I guess what the eventual outcome will be nobody knows. At least we’ll both still be City fans once the dust settles. 👍

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Exactly :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

You don’t understand how EU voting works.

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One of the EU nutters said it's too complicated to administrate, and some things need to be changed to less choice or no choice.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

I’ve not mentioned violence. You’re the one throwing the insults around on here. You’ve not proven me or anybody else “wrong”.
It’s just opinions. My point, was about the silent majority from any country, in any given era, just standing back and letting things happen.
You are just angry because you want to remain in Europe, and the vote has gone against that.
It’s not the Tories who voted to leave, it was the general public.

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Yes I pointed that one out a few times ( It’s not the Tories who voted to leave, it was the general public.)
and it does seem to enrage the nasty new Socialism agenda keyboard warriors .


Perhaps the public and Labour voters didn't vote for to leave , and May has arranged all this deception (hang on , she's a remainer, Corbyn is a leaver , its bloody role reversal )

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

Mozzer, we're actually doing very well, our turnover and profit will be the best ever this FY and we have a world leading product both technology wise & market share, so this situation is a massive kick in the teeth.

Your comment on skilled people is spot on & ironically only around 20% of the recent skilled staff are of UK origin. We currently have staff of 23 global nationalities. We've recently put in place a mature apprentice scheme. University graduate recruitment has been dire, so we're now putting them through an apprenticeship post University.

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agree about the standard of university graduates coming through the ranks . it comes to something when someone spends 3 years at university studying a topic and then you have to send them out again to do an apprenticeship especially most owe about 50k when they graduate . something is drastically wrong the way our government is telling youngsters you need a degree to get on in life

let's get back to basics and tell business leaders to promote engineering apprenticeships first before going anywhere near a degree a proper grounding to the real world of work and as for percentage of british workers I fully know where your coming from when I was at JLR a few years ago I was the only Brit in a team of 15 Engineers in our department !!

Thanks

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Originally Posted by life on mars

(hang on , she's a remainer, Corbyn is a leaver , its bloody role reversal )

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Let’s be honest - they don’t really give a stuff either way - as long as they gain or retain power.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Your quite a feisty character aren’t you. Throwing the insults around. Another keyboard warrior?

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I thought you'd have worked out who Rudy is by now, Billy boy.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Can all the people who are desperate to leave in this thread please tell me why? What do they think the benefits are?

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It won’t be less imigration, it won’t be more sovereignty, it won’t be more jobs and certainly less in the poorer areas.

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Originally Posted by BLUEAWAY

It won’t be less imigration, it won’t be more sovereignty, it won’t be more jobs and certainly less in the poorer areas.

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I agree with you on all counts. I suspect we've reached the same conclusion for entirely different reasons, though. Most of mine begin with d -- more debt, more dumbing-down, more decadence, more drugs, more deprivation and all of it by design.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

The UK parliament is the only organisation that CAN change article 50, or at least revoke it.
No deal is a natural consequence of reaching 29 Mar without a deal. On that date we automatically leave the EU whether we want to or not, and whether the EU want us to or not - - - - unless an act of parliament is passed to revoke article 50.
A new act of parliament is the only thing that can prevent it. If it is stopped any other way it will be illegal as far as I iunderstand it.

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Change and revoke are completely different things, world's apart.

29 March has been extended.

Maybe someone can explain something to me.

I've always been on the side of remaining in the EU. Not because of any huge fondness for the EU, I must add. Politically, I will always side with the least fortunate, the worst off, those who need help. The rich will always make their money, they find ways to exploit the rest of us and so they should be the ones shouldering most of the responsibility for those who are worst off.

A no-deal scenario scares the hell out of me. Years of not having lots of deals in place with lots of countries that we need to have deals with. Some might find this liberating. If it affects the worst off in society in a negative way, why should we do it? I cannot support anything that has the potential to make peoples' lives worse. Notice I haven't said that "will make peoples' lives worse", just the potential.

So I cannot understand why people would happily accept a scenario that has the potential, or might cause hardship to lots of people. I cannot understand a blase attitude of "it might be ok".

Those voting leave have decided on a massive gamble for the country. One that they believe will work out eventually. One that none of them reckon will make us better off overnight, so people will be worse off for a spell at least.

If people's livelihoods and income isn't the most important issue, then I cannot understand the mentality of those who voted leave and don't care if people are made worse off. How can anyone vote for something that would make their fellow citizens potentially worse off?

Scary times.

Eric, I think you also need add "vote for something that will potentially make themselves worse off"

Des has talked about layoffs. Some of those must surely have voted leave.

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Originally Posted by lardy

Eric, I think you also need add "vote for something that will potentially make themselves worse off"

Des has talked about layoffs. Some of those must surely have voted leave.

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Yes they probably did vote leave ,so did folk in places like Swindon and Sunderland even after big name employers in those areas such as Nissan and Honda said , no, don't vote to leave , it may hurt you and us , and those companies pump massive values and jobs into thier local economies.

Look at Wales, it received huge amounts of investment , it was a net receiver of cash and investment subsidy , and we know it wont be matched by Westminster, but still it voted to leave.

I think this was an emotive vote, one that had some deep rooted feelings that had festered over many years, even decades , around independent law making ,immigration, border control, farming/ fishing quotas , loss of identity, over employed beaurcacts, unchallenged bloated and costly european officialdom ,obscene wages and pensions to support the commission.

It's almost like a child lashing out , after a period of frustration.

I still think if a new referendum was put in place we would not see a different result. I might be wrong?? but onna personal level , I do know folk who voted leave, will do so again .

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Originally Posted by lardy

Change and revoke are completely different things, world's apart.

29 March has been extended.

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No it hasn't, it's still 24 hours. :hide:

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

No it hasn't, it's still 24 hours. :hide:

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Sorry lardy,but that just shows how seriously I take this thread. Now I'll have to hide somewhere else. :tea:

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Sorry lardy,but that just shows how seriously I take this thread. Now I'll have to hide somewhere else. :tea:

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To be honest, it's a nightmare to keep up with what's going on :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Yes they probably did vote leave ,so did folk in places like Swindon and Sunderland even after big name employers in those areas such as Nissan and Honda said , no, don't vote to leave , it may hurt you and us , and those companies pump massive values and jobs into thier local economies.

Look at Wales, it received huge amounts of investment , it was a net receiver of cash and investment subsidy , and we know it wont be matched by Westminster, but still it voted to leave.

I think this was an emotive vote, one that had some deep rooted feelings that had festered over many years, even decades , around independent law making ,immigration, border control, farming/ fishing quotas , loss of identity, over employed beaurcacts, unchallenged bloated and costly european officialdom ,obscene wages and pensions to support the commission.

It's almost like a child lashing out , after a period of frustration.

I still think if a new referendum was put in place we would not see a different result. I might be wrong?? but onna personal level , I do know folk who voted leave, will do so again .

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We might not get a different result, but I think the country is owed the opportunity to have their say with what we've learned. If 52%+ say this what they really want, then so be it.

Actually, Leave have a big advantage from a PR point of view. The slogan is simply "Tell Them Again". That's very powerful.

Here's my contribution which I saw elsewhere yesterday-

52% Pride and Prejudice

48% Sense and Sensibility

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Maybe someone can explain something to me.

I've always been on the side of remaining in the EU. Not because of any huge fondness for the EU, I must add. Politically, I will always side with the least fortunate, the worst off, those who need help. The rich will always make their money, they find ways to exploit the rest of us and so they should be the ones shouldering most of the responsibility for those who are worst off.

A no-deal scenario scares the hell out of me. Years of not having lots of deals in place with lots of countries that we need to have deals with. Some might find this liberating. If it affects the worst off in society in a negative way, why should we do it? I cannot support anything that has the potential to make peoples' lives worse. Notice I haven't said that "will make peoples' lives worse", just the potential.

So I cannot understand why people would happily accept a scenario that has the potential, or might cause hardship to lots of people. I cannot understand a blase attitude of "it might be ok".

Those voting leave have decided on a massive gamble for the country. One that they believe will work out eventually. One that none of them reckon will make us better off overnight, so people will be worse off for a spell at least.

If people's livelihoods and income isn't the most important issue, then I cannot understand the mentality of those who voted leave and don't care if people are made worse off. How can anyone vote for something that would make their fellow citizens potentially worse off?

Scary times.

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Eric, Eric, Eric its what nearly everybody does, I have brought this up on massage-boards before, look at Mrs Thatcher they voted for her in droves - lower income tax, a chance to buy the countries housing stock for a song if you were a council house tenant, a chance to buy shares in our nationalised industries on the cheap, if you was unemployed, on benefits, a pensioner or a student you might well be worse off, if you was in work you was likely to be better off.
I would pay a lot more tax for the benefit of the country but most people wont, most people are selfish and greedy, as regards leave voters some observe it was a protest vote [wrong election to do a protest vote] and that they believed that for every £1 we gave the EU we only got 37p back etc, they weren't trying to make fellow subjects of the English crown worse off but when they vote Labour, Conservative and Lib-Dem in Assembly and Westminster elections it could be said they are happy to make others worse off if they perceive they will be better off.

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Originally Posted by lardy

We might not get a different result, but I think the country is owed the opportunity to have their say with what we've learned. If 52%+ say this what they really want, then so be it.

Actually, Leave have a big advantage from a PR point of view. The slogan is simply "Tell Them Again". That's very powerful.

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You mean lie to them again right?

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Originally Posted by goats

You mean lie to them again right?

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If the vote is legally binding, then any illegal activity would make the result null and void. The first referendum was not legally binding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht40yrt3VrY&t=325s

This is a must watch, Farage condeded defeat at 10:01 despite a huge turnout that, at the time, said to me that the result would be leave (people only turn out in huge numbers for change).

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Originally Posted by Watamistakatomaka

I'll keep it shortish. I dont want EU dictating laws what we can and cant do, paying MEP's silly money for doing **** all (The Kinnock gravy train), bailing out the likes of Greece and Italy knowing they will never pay it back, control our borders, control our fishing grounds......that'll do for now. Why do you want to remain?

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What rules have they forced on you? What laws are we unable to implement?

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Originally Posted by goats

You mean lie to them again right?

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More than likely.

I'd make Leave favourite in a second referendum, so I don't know why leavers are scared of the prospect.

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Originally Posted by JennyWren

If the vote is legally binding, then any illegal activity would make the result null and void. The first referendum was not legally binding.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29294087
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...F1&FORM=VDQVAP
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...1&&FORM=VRDGAR

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Originally Posted by lardy

More than likely.

I'd make Leave favourite in a second referendum, so I don't know why leavers are scared of the prospect.

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I wouldn’t say leavers are scared of the prospect. I’d wager that it would be another leave result anyway.
It would set an uneasy precedent though.
The way the government has handled it, has been nothing short of amateurish and shambolic, from day 1.
Whether it is a good or bad decision to leave, that’s what the people voted for, and that’s what the government should have done on the 29th. No deals, just out.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

What opportunities mate?

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Better trade opportunities

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

I wouldn’t say leavers are scared of the prospect. I’d wager that it would be another leave result anyway.
It would set an uneasy precedent though.
The way the government has handled it, has been nothing short of amateurish and shambolic, from day 1.
Whether it is a good or bad decision to leave, that’s what the people voted for, and that’s what the government should have done on the 29th. No deals, just out.

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Yeah we should just bin 40% of our trade just coz.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

Better trade opportunities

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Why would negotiating on our own be better than negotiating as part of the biggest bloc?

The country voted leave so lets get out.
Farage , Johnson and co should be put in govt with one as PM.

They should then immediately start putting in 350m a week to the NHS.

They should then be taken to task if it doesnt happen.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

Better trade opportunities

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With who? We’ve currently got a load of free trade agreements with a load of countries, we can’t get a better deal with them as the one we already have, and won’t get the same deal independently.
If you’ve thinking better deals with countries like India or China then you’ve got to accept that to get a good deal with them that they are going to push for easier migration for their citizens.

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Originally Posted by rs3100

With who? We’ve currently got a load of free trade agreements with a load of countries, we can’t get a better deal with them as the one we already have, and won’t get the same deal independently.
If you’ve thinking better deals with countries like India or China then you’ve got to accept that to get a good deal with them that they are going to push for easier migration for their citizens.

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Why do you see this as a necessary part of a trade deal with these countries. Immigration is not normally a part of any trade deal (Except in the EU) and why would any country insist on a clause to make their best workers able to leave the country. It's just plain silly, like so much of the other stuff related to brexit.

As I mentioned before, for the last 2 years and more every single piece of bed news in this country has been blamed on the threat of brexit and some of those were invented and non-news. What did everybody blame before remain lost that vote.????? :shrug:

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Originally Posted by lardy

Yeah we should just bin 40% of our trade just coz.

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That’s just plain scaremongering nonsense.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Why do you see this as a necessary part of a trade deal with these countries. Immigration is not normally a part of any trade deal (Except in the EU) and why would any country insist on a clause to make their best workers able to leave the country. It's just plain silly, like so much of the other stuff related to brexit.

As I mentioned before, for the last 2 years and more every single piece of bed news in this country has been blamed on the threat of brexit and some of those were invented and non-news. What did everybody blame before remain lost that vote.????? :shrug:

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Dave Jones!

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Dave Jones!

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Well he probably deserved it. But then he wouldn't have complained, he'd have just dusted himself down and gone again. (As was that come (sic) again?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

That’s just plain scaremongering nonsense.

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He's talking about no deal. Change "bin" for something else if you want, but it's not going to help us.

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Originally Posted by rs3100

With who? We’ve currently got a load of free trade agreements with a load of countries, we can’t get a better deal with them as the one we already have, and won’t get the same deal independently.
If you’ve thinking better deals with countries like India or China then you’ve got to accept that to get a good deal with them that they are going to push for easier migration for their citizens.

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I’m all for migration for the correct skills required.

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Originally Posted by lardy

Why would negotiating on our own be better than negotiating as part of the biggest bloc?

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Trade would be more tailored to our own positives.