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A challenge to the brexiters
Simple question.
Can you please give me one reason why exiting the EU will make my life better please?
The only caveat is that it needs to be factual, not an opinion or a gut instinct, but "this will happen if we leave, and this is why it will be good for you"
I'm off out for a while, so plenty of time for you to have a think about it. I look forward to reading the responses when I get back.
Thanks in advance.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
Simple question.
Can you please give me one reason why exiting the EU will make my life better please?
The only caveat is that it needs to be factual, not an opinion or a gut instinct, but "this will happen if we leave, and this is why it will be good for you"
I'm off out for a while, so plenty of time for you to have a think about it. I look forward to reading the responses when I get back.
Thanks in advance.
I'll give my reason for not voting
In or out doesn't matter, the rich will still rule, the poor will still be poor,
1% own 93% of the worlds wealth, so in our out is irrelevant,
There will still be inequality, racists, a NHS still under pressure etc etc.
Economic arguments are null and void, as a wise man said " you can't have infinite growth on a finite planet"
No politician is going to argue for less growth
We should, (myself included) be having an internal referendum on how to be a kinder person, consume less and love more, CHANGE should come from within, change myself-change the world
The system isn't broke it's designed perfectly, designed by the rich and powerful to maintain their status
Good luck which ever way you choose to vote
But as for voting
I'm out.....
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
If we vote out ,hopefully we will regain control of our borders.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimmy the Jock
If we vote out ,hopefully we will regain control of our borders.
"Hopefully"... :hehe:
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
TH63 - Can you please give me one reason why staying in the EU will make my life better please? - new countries joining who wont be net contributors, a currency that is fecked, members that are bankrupt (Greece Im looking at you) and who will be needed a 3rd bailout in Sept. An economy that isnt growing at all.
If you we were out - would you vote to join - and why ?
I always answer questions with another question, do you?
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninianclark
TH63 - Can you please give me one reason why staying in the EU will make my life better please? - new countries joining who wont be net contributors, a currency that is fecked, members that are bankrupt (Greece Im looking at you) and who will be needed a 3rd bailout in Sept. An economy that isnt growing at all.
If you we were out - would you vote to join - and why ?
This kind of 'answer' is exactly why TH63 is asking the question in the first place.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
We'll be able to send all the darkies back.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goslow
We'll be able to send all the darkies back.
:hehe::hehe:
Your going to be very disappointed, it must really hurt you deep within that the worlds changing, the people are changing.
Get used to it :hehe:
:wales:
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFC CASUAL
Less Polish plumbers
We want more not less
:wales:
Just wait untill turkey joins you won't be able to sleep at night :hehe:
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
Simple question.
Can you please give me one reason why exiting the EU will make my life better please?
The only caveat is that it needs to be factual, not an opinion or a gut instinct, but "this will happen if we leave, and this is why it will be good for you"
I'm off out for a while, so plenty of time for you to have a think about it. I look forward to reading the responses when I get back.
Thanks in advance.
Because I'm too old to learn German. They are trying for European domination.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tigerbaybluebird
We want more not less
:wales:
Just wait untill turkey joins you won't be able to sleep at night :hehe:
My barber is Turkish and I love Turkish food but the influx of too many is a concern.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
We wouldn't be paying millions and millions of £££££££££ to the EU every week. I would like to see wales re-negotiate the Barnett Formula which would benefit everyone in Wales including you TH63
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
We wouldn't be paying millions and millions of £££££££££ to the EU every week. I would like to see wales re-negotiate the Barnett Formula which would benefit everyone in Wales including you TH63
I've been waiting for someone to link me to the beneficial monetary impact on us leaving. Could you provide a link to the figures you quote as I thought Wales was a net beneficiary of funds from the EU but I haven't looked it up myself.
I'd also like to know why you think that Westminster will give us anything more if we leave the EU - they haven't been bothered up until now, why should that change? In fact it's only the EU that has provided us with additional funds in recent years.
Finally, if the Governor of the Bank of England think it'll be bad for the economy why do you think otherwise?
Ta!
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
Simple question.
Can you please give me one reason why exiting the EU will make my life better please?
The only caveat is that it needs to be factual, not an opinion or a gut instinct, but "this will happen if we leave, and this is why it will be good for you"
I'm off out for a while, so plenty of time for you to have a think about it. I look forward to reading the responses when I get back.
Thanks in advance.
Nearly 5 hours and counting. Not one person has answered your question, namely "why, exiting the EU will make your life better?" This doesn't surprise me as there is no answer to this question.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
I would add another question. Which specific law emanating from Brussels has adversely affected people on here?
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jonny London
Nearly 5 hours and counting. Not one person has answered your question, namely "why, exiting the EU will make your life better?" This doesn't surprise me as there is no answer to this question.
Correct.
In the same way there is no answer for remain - only suppositions and possibilities, based mainly on fear...
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
I would add another question. Which specific law emanating from Brussels has adversely affected people on here?
We want good old fashioned British criminals breaking good old fashioned British laws.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
We want good old fashioned British criminals breaking good old fashioned British laws.
Will they all have to come back from their villas in Spain if we leave the EU?
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tigerbaybluebird
:hehe::hehe:
Your going to be very disappointed, it must really hurt you deep within that the worlds changing, the people are changing.
Get used to it :hehe:
:wales:
The world hasn't changed,the third world shitholes are still third world shitholes no matter how much help the first world gives it.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goslow
The world hasn't changed,the third world shitholes are still third world shitholes no matter how much help the first world gives it.
Thailand is a lot different than it was 30 years ago - it is now a major tourist destination, similarly Vietnam and Cambodia. India have joined the space race (I concede that poverty is still rife, and the Indian Government must change priorities), and have the some of the finest IT training colleges in the world.
The third world remains third world through corruption and exploitation.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Penarth Blues
I've been waiting for someone to link me to the beneficial monetary impact on us leaving. Could you provide a link to the figures you quote as I thought Wales was a net beneficiary of funds from the EU but I haven't looked it up myself.
I'd also like to know why you think that Westminster will give us anything more if we leave the EU - they haven't been bothered up until now, why should that change? In fact it's only the EU that has provided us with additional funds in recent years.
Finally, if the Governor of the Bank of England think it'll be bad for the economy why do you think otherwise?
Ta!
Read what i Said....Penarth, are you suggesting that we don't give the EU any funds?
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
Read what i Said....Penarth, are you suggesting that we don't give the EU any funds?
Are you suggesting that the net effect of these donations is negative?
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
We wouldn't be paying millions and millions of £££££££££ to the EU every week. I would like to see wales re-negotiate the Barnett Formula which would benefit everyone in Wales including you TH63
All afternoon and this is arguably the closest anyone has come to answering my question.
Two problems though:
1. Yes we pay in "millions and millions of £££££", but in return we also receive "millions and millions" in direct funding and also indirectly as a product of commercial overseas investment and trade. That said, I accept that nobody can put an exact £ figure on it.
2. The Barnett formula is not an EU mechanism and is completely under the control of the U.K. Government.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
Read what i Said....Penarth, are you suggesting that we don't give the EU any funds?
Not at all - we're a net contributor to Europe, one of the few. However, for you to suggest that we'll continue to be as successful financially as GB if we leave would be to fly in the face of every economic analysis of people who know better than I (and I suspect you as well). This could mean we lose far more out of the overall economy than the money we currently provide to the EU as part of the EU.
At the level of Wales we do well out of the EU gaining significant additional funds to supplement what Westminster deigns to give us. We are of as much interest to Westminster as the North of England and can't expect any favouritism from an even more right wing Tory party should we leave.
So, I'll ask my question again. Can you link me to the articles you have read showing that leaving the EU will be a net positive benefit to either the UK or Wales? Not just thinking we don't have to give them money any more, as life is not that simple.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tigerbaybluebird
We want more not less
:wales:
Just wait untill turkey joins you won't be able to sleep at night :hehe:
Turkeys not gonna join. And immigration has benefits, if only we could have less xenophobes tho
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
The idea of an EU is not a bad thing on paper. The trouble is the people behind it won't stop at a European Union, they want a Global Union. That is one set of laws and one set of living standards for everybody on the planet, and you can be sure it won't be the rest of the world who will be rising up up to ours. It won't happen overnight, so just keep in mind what you decide now will affect future generations. Just remember that in politics nothing happens by accident, it's all mapped out way ahead of time.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The idea of an EU is not a bad thing on paper. The trouble is the people behind it won't stop at a European Union, they want a Global Union. That is one set of laws and one set of living standards for everybody on the planet, and you can be sure it won't be the rest of the world who will be rising up up to ours. It won't happen overnight, so just keep in mind what you decide now will affect future generations. Just remember that in politics nothing happens by accident, it's all mapped out way ahead of time.
What evidence is there that a global union will happen? I only ask because the UK has been in the EU since before I was born in 1976. It hasn't happened yet - so this is an exceptionally slow process. Will it happen ahead of HS2?
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Penarth Blues
Not at all - we're a net contributor to Europe, one of the few. However, for you to suggest that we'll continue to be as successful financially as GB if we leave would be to fly in the face of every economic analysis of people who know better than I (and I suspect you as well). This could mean we lose far more out of the overall economy than the money we currently provide to the EU as part of the EU.
At the level of Wales we do well out of the EU gaining significant additional funds to supplement what Westminster deigns to give us. We are of as much interest to Westminster as the North of England and can't expect any favouritism from an even more right wing Tory party should we leave.
So, I'll ask my question again. Can you link me to the articles you have read showing that leaving the EU will be a net positive benefit to either the UK or Wales? Not just thinking we don't have to give them money any more, as life is not that simple.
No i can't give an exact figure....but i think if we looked after our own and invested in our institutions like the NHS then we would be richer for it.....you can't put a price on the wellbeing of the nation.
Cameron just said on QT that we contribute £8.5 Billion per annum and we don't get that amount Back.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
No i can't give an exact figure....but i think if we looked after our own and invested in our institutions like the NHS then we would be richer for it.....you can't put a price on the wellbeing of the nation.
Cameron just said on QT that we contribute £8.5 Billion per annum and we don't get that amount Back.
Yes we do via the single market. Lose the single market and we will be worse off.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
No i can't give an exact figure....but i think if we looked after our own and invested in our institutions like the NHS then we would be richer for it.....you can't put a price on the wellbeing of the nation.
Cameron just said on QT that we contribute £8.5 Billion per annum and we don't get that amount Back.
If it was so simple, we'd all be voting out.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pearcey3
I would add another question. Which specific law emanating from Brussels has adversely affected people on here?
State aid rules? Effectively stops WG directly helping Tata Steel
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Gwapo
State aid rules? Effectively stops WG directly helping Tata Steel
You are the first person to give me what appears to be a legitimate response. It's been a long time coming but it's a good answer.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TH63
All afternoon and this is arguably the closest anyone has come to answering my question.
Two problems though:
1. Yes we pay in "millions and millions of £££££", but in return we also receive "millions and millions" in direct funding and also indirectly as a product of commercial overseas investment and trade. That said, I accept that nobody can put an exact £ figure on it.
2. The Barnett formula is not an EU mechanism and is completely under the control of the U.K. Government.
TH63.....I believe that we would have a few tough years if we vote out, but i have the faith that we can compete with the rest of the world we are at the Fore front of new technology, always have been we invented the Train up in ole Merthyr Town.
We have a really old and rich culture that the rest of the world desires...we gave the world David Bowie and the Beatles ffs.
On the Barnet Formula what i mean was yes i don't trust Westminster dishing out the welsh funds....so that needs to be sorted out.
When these new little country's like Albainia or Montenegro and more to come into the zone start getting funding you never know the welsh funding could dry up in Europe.
So like I said my gut feeling is Out and my faith tells me we'll be alright.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goslow
The world hasn't changed,the third world shitholes are still third world shitholes no matter how much help the first world gives it.
Not true.
www.toilettwinning.org/
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Whisperer
TH63.....I believe that we would have a few tough years if we vote out, but i have the faith that we can compete with the rest of the world we are at the Fore front of new technology, always have been we invented the Train up in ole Merthyr Town.
We have a really old and rich culture that the rest of the world desires...we gave the world David Bowie and the Beatles ffs.
On the Barnet Formula what i mean was yes i don't trust Westminster dishing out the welsh funds....so that needs to be sorted out.
When these new little country's like Albainia or Montenegro and more to come into the zone start getting funding you never know the welsh funding could dry up in Europe.
So like I said my gut feeling is Out and my faith tells me we'll be alright.
Unfortunately we're in the 'fall of empire' stage in Britain right now and not falling straight down the leagues is going to be a colossal ask. We do still have a great Higher Education system that brings in Billions, but not making foreign students welcome (immigrants see) is crippling us and giving away one of the last areas in which we are still 'Great' as the rest of the world is trying hard to get some of this action. This will also greatly hamper our capability to innovate competitively against the rest of the world, not helped by the Govt now wanting to tell us what to research rather than letting those with the expertise decide what the next challenges are.
So I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I really don't get where the 'right' for us to be at the forefront of anything comes from. In a globally connected world we're being blown away by the US, Russia, China and India.
I think your gut and faith may have led you astray here, but that's just my view, though I do think it's based on a bit more than 'we used to be great at things' viewpoint. Give me something we've invented recently that we're leading the world at and will make Billions from, because nothing comes immediately to mind.
The ONLY thing I can think of that will help us from leaving is that our sense of fair play does hamper us a bit when no-one else plays by the rules like we do. Someone has mentioned the steel industry and that's a good example of where we could be a bit 'dirtier' in the way we play the game.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Penarth Blues
Unfortunately we're in the 'fall of empire' stage in Britain right now and not falling straight down the leagues is going to be a colossal ask. We do still have a great Higher Education system that brings in Billions, but not making foreign students welcome (immigrants see) is crippling us and giving away one of the last areas in which we are still 'Great' as the rest of the world is trying hard to get some of this action. This will also greatly hamper our capability to innovate competitively against the rest of the world, not helped by the Govt now wanting to tell us what to research rather than letting those with the expertise decide what the next challenges are.
So I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I really don't get where the 'right' for us to be at the forefront of anything comes from. In a globally connected world we're being blown away by the US, Russia, China and India.
I think your gut and faith may have led you astray here, but that's just my view, though I do think it's based on a bit more than 'we used to be great at things' viewpoint. Give me something we've invented recently that we're leading the world at and will make Billions from, because nothing comes immediately to mind.
The ONLY thing I can think of that will help us from leaving is that our sense of fair play does hamper us a bit when no-one else plays by the rules like we do. Someone has mentioned the steel industry and that's a good example of where we could be a bit 'dirtier' in the way we play the game.
so we abandon our countries Values and our great heritage and just become part of the European state ? ? ?
or do we attempt to stand up and try to regain our country back to where is once was
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
What values have we abandoned?
Where was it that our country once was?
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
so we abandon our countries Values and our great heritage and just become part of the European state ? ? ?
or do we attempt to stand up and try to regain our country back to where is once was
Love your naivety - what makes you think any of our dickheads of a bunch of self-serving politicians have even a fraction of a % of an interest in that happening? Which particular bit do you want back anyway - the bit where we invade and subjugate countries and steal all their resources? The Victorian Age where young lads were sent up chimneys and just a few people owned everything? That's over and there is no going back - same as the Roman Empire is over despite all the advances they invented.
We benefitted from a golden age of invention and empire building, I think what we have to offer the world from here on in is a sense of fairness (perhaps the world's conscience?) and perhaps medical advances. This from a country that is increasingly not owned by us anyway as we've sold off most of our saleable assets in case you hadn't noticed. We still invent things quite well but other people watch what we do and copy and make them cheaper and quicker than we ever could.
I'm quite optimistic that we do still have things to offer the world but we need to be part of a power bloc in order to help set the rules. I see that as ideally being the EU - who will be desperate for us to continue to be successful so that we can continue to help fund the EU state. They won't be so desperate for that if we leave and will naturally look to ensure the EU MS are successful first instead.
I think the popular press has a lot to answer for in its misplaced jingoism and leading people to believe we're stronger than we are.
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Re: A challenge to the brexiters
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Penarth Blues
Love your naivety - what makes you think any of our dickheads of a bunch of self-serving politicians have even a fraction of a % of an interest in that happening? Which particular bit do you want back anyway - the bit where we invade and subjugate countries and steal all their resources? The Victorian Age where young lads were sent up chimneys and just a few people owned everything? That's over and there is no going back - same as the Roman Empire is over despite all the advances they invented.
We benefitted from a golden age of invention and empire building, I think what we have to offer the world from here on in is a sense of fairness (perhaps the world's conscience?) and perhaps medical advances. This from a country that is increasingly not owned by us anyway as we've sold off most of our saleable assets in case you hadn't noticed. We still invent things quite well but other people watch what we do and copy and make them cheaper and quicker than we ever could.
I'm quite optimistic that we do still have things to offer the world but we need to be part of a power bloc in order to help set the rules. I see that as ideally being the EU - who will be desperate for us to continue to be successful so that we can continue to help fund the EU state. They won't be so desperate for that if we leave and will naturally look to ensure the EU MS are successful first instead.
I think the popular press has a lot to answer for in its misplaced jingoism and leading people to believe we're stronger than we are.
Great answer. Agree with all of it.