A challenge to the brexiters

[adz-a32]

We want more not less




Just wait untill turkey joins you won't be able to sleep at night

Turkeys not gonna join. And immigration has benefits, if only we could have less xenophobes tho

[Wales-Bales]

The idea of an EU is not a bad thing on paper. The trouble is the people behind it won't stop at a European Union, they want a Global Union. That is one set of laws and one set of living standards for everybody on the planet, and you can be sure it won't be the rest of the world who will be rising up up to ours. It won't happen overnight, so just keep in mind what you decide now will affect future generations. Just remember that in politics nothing happens by accident, it's all mapped out way ahead of time.

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

The idea of an EU is not a bad thing on paper. The trouble is the people behind it won't stop at a European Union, they want a Global Union. That is one set of laws and one set of living standards for everybody on the planet, and you can be sure it won't be the rest of the world who will be rising up up to ours. It won't happen overnight, so just keep in mind what you decide now will affect future generations. Just remember that in politics nothing happens by accident, it's all mapped out way ahead of time.

What evidence is there that a global union will happen? I only ask because the UK has been in the EU since before I was born in 1976. It hasn't happened yet - so this is an exceptionally slow process. Will it happen ahead of HS2?

[Whisperer]

Not at all - we're a net contributor to Europe, one of the few. However, for you to suggest that we'll continue to be as successful financially as GB if we leave would be to fly in the face of every economic analysis of people who know better than I (and I suspect you as well). This could mean we lose far more out of the overall economy than the money we currently provide to the EU as part of the EU.

At the level of Wales we do well out of the EU gaining significant additional funds to supplement what Westminster deigns to give us. We are of as much interest to Westminster as the North of England and can't expect any favouritism from an even more right wing Tory party should we leave.

So, I'll ask my question again. Can you link me to the articles you have read showing that leaving the EU will be a net positive benefit to either the UK or Wales? Not just thinking we don't have to give them money any more, as life is not that simple.

No i can't give an exact figure....but i think if we looked after our own and invested in our institutions like the NHS then we would be richer for it.....you can't put a price on the wellbeing of the nation.
Cameron just said on QT that we contribute £8.5 Billion per annum and we don't get that amount Back.

[Pearcey3]

No i can't give an exact figure....but i think if we looked after our own and invested in our institutions like the NHS then we would be richer for it.....you can't put a price on the wellbeing of the nation.
Cameron just said on QT that we contribute £8.5 Billion per annum and we don't get that amount Back.

Yes we do via the single market. Lose the single market and we will be worse off.

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

No i can't give an exact figure....but i think if we looked after our own and invested in our institutions like the NHS then we would be richer for it.....you can't put a price on the wellbeing of the nation.
Cameron just said on QT that we contribute £8.5 Billion per annum and we don't get that amount Back.

If it was so simple, we'd all be voting out.

[El Gwapo]

I would add another question. Which specific law emanating from Brussels has adversely affected people on here?

State aid rules? Effectively stops WG directly helping Tata Steel

[Pearcey3]

State aid rules? Effectively stops WG directly helping Tata Steel

You are the first person to give me what appears to be a legitimate response. It's been a long time coming but it's a good answer.

[Whisperer]

All afternoon and this is arguably the closest anyone has come to answering my question.
Two problems though:
1. Yes we pay in "millions and millions of £££££", but in return we also receive "millions and millions" in direct funding and also indirectly as a product of commercial overseas investment and trade. That said, I accept that nobody can put an exact £ figure on it.
2. The Barnett formula is not an EU mechanism and is completely under the control of the U.K. Government.

TH63.....I believe that we would have a few tough years if we vote out, but i have the faith that we can compete with the rest of the world we are at the Fore front of new technology, always have been we invented the Train up in ole Merthyr Town.
We have a really old and rich culture that the rest of the world desires...we gave the world David Bowie and the Beatles ffs.

On the Barnet Formula what i mean was yes i don't trust Westminster dishing out the welsh funds....so that needs to be sorted out.
When these new little country's like Albainia or Montenegro and more to come into the zone start getting funding you never know the welsh funding could dry up in Europe.

So like I said my gut feeling is Out and my faith tells me we'll be alright.

[Gofer Blue]

The world hasn't changed,the third world shitholes are still third world shitholes no matter how much help the first world gives it.

Not true.

www.toilettwinning.org/

[Penarth Blues]

TH63.....I believe that we would have a few tough years if we vote out, but i have the faith that we can compete with the rest of the world we are at the Fore front of new technology, always have been we invented the Train up in ole Merthyr Town.
We have a really old and rich culture that the rest of the world desires...we gave the world David Bowie and the Beatles ffs.

On the Barnet Formula what i mean was yes i don't trust Westminster dishing out the welsh funds....so that needs to be sorted out.
When these new little country's like Albainia or Montenegro and more to come into the zone start getting funding you never know the welsh funding could dry up in Europe.

So like I said my gut feeling is Out and my faith tells me we'll be alright.

Unfortunately we're in the 'fall of empire' stage in Britain right now and not falling straight down the leagues is going to be a colossal ask. We do still have a great Higher Education system that brings in Billions, but not making foreign students welcome (immigrants see) is crippling us and giving away one of the last areas in which we are still 'Great' as the rest of the world is trying hard to get some of this action. This will also greatly hamper our capability to innovate competitively against the rest of the world, not helped by the Govt now wanting to tell us what to research rather than letting those with the expertise decide what the next challenges are.

So I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I really don't get where the 'right' for us to be at the forefront of anything comes from. In a globally connected world we're being blown away by the US, Russia, China and India.

I think your gut and faith may have led you astray here, but that's just my view, though I do think it's based on a bit more than 'we used to be great at things' viewpoint. Give me something we've invented recently that we're leading the world at and will make Billions from, because nothing comes immediately to mind.

The ONLY thing I can think of that will help us from leaving is that our sense of fair play does hamper us a bit when no-one else plays by the rules like we do. Someone has mentioned the steel industry and that's a good example of where we could be a bit 'dirtier' in the way we play the game.

[blue matt]

Unfortunately we're in the 'fall of empire' stage in Britain right now and not falling straight down the leagues is going to be a colossal ask. We do still have a great Higher Education system that brings in Billions, but not making foreign students welcome (immigrants see) is crippling us and giving away one of the last areas in which we are still 'Great' as the rest of the world is trying hard to get some of this action. This will also greatly hamper our capability to innovate competitively against the rest of the world, not helped by the Govt now wanting to tell us what to research rather than letting those with the expertise decide what the next challenges are.

So I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I really don't get where the 'right' for us to be at the forefront of anything comes from. In a globally connected world we're being blown away by the US, Russia, China and India.

I think your gut and faith may have led you astray here, but that's just my view, though I do think it's based on a bit more than 'we used to be great at things' viewpoint. Give me something we've invented recently that we're leading the world at and will make Billions from, because nothing comes immediately to mind.

The ONLY thing I can think of that will help us from leaving is that our sense of fair play does hamper us a bit when no-one else plays by the rules like we do. Someone has mentioned the steel industry and that's a good example of where we could be a bit 'dirtier' in the way we play the game.

so we abandon our countries Values and our great heritage and just become part of the European state ? ? ?

or do we attempt to stand up and try to regain our country back to where is once was

[TH63]

What values have we abandoned?
Where was it that our country once was?

[Penarth Blues]

so we abandon our countries Values and our great heritage and just become part of the European state ? ? ?

or do we attempt to stand up and try to regain our country back to where is once was

Love your naivety - what makes you think any of our dickheads of a bunch of self-serving politicians have even a fraction of a % of an interest in that happening? Which particular bit do you want back anyway - the bit where we invade and subjugate countries and steal all their resources? The Victorian Age where young lads were sent up chimneys and just a few people owned everything? That's over and there is no going back - same as the Roman Empire is over despite all the advances they invented.

We benefitted from a golden age of invention and empire building, I think what we have to offer the world from here on in is a sense of fairness (perhaps the world's conscience?) and perhaps medical advances. This from a country that is increasingly not owned by us anyway as we've sold off most of our saleable assets in case you hadn't noticed. We still invent things quite well but other people watch what we do and copy and make them cheaper and quicker than we ever could.

I'm quite optimistic that we do still have things to offer the world but we need to be part of a power bloc in order to help set the rules. I see that as ideally being the EU - who will be desperate for us to continue to be successful so that we can continue to help fund the EU state. They won't be so desperate for that if we leave and will naturally look to ensure the EU MS are successful first instead.

I think the popular press has a lot to answer for in its misplaced jingoism and leading people to believe we're stronger than we are.

[Pearcey3]

Love your naivety - what makes you think any of our dickheads of a bunch of self-serving politicians have even a fraction of a % of an interest in that happening? Which particular bit do you want back anyway - the bit where we invade and subjugate countries and steal all their resources? The Victorian Age where young lads were sent up chimneys and just a few people owned everything? That's over and there is no going back - same as the Roman Empire is over despite all the advances they invented.

We benefitted from a golden age of invention and empire building, I think what we have to offer the world from here on in is a sense of fairness (perhaps the world's conscience?) and perhaps medical advances. This from a country that is increasingly not owned by us anyway as we've sold off most of our saleable assets in case you hadn't noticed. We still invent things quite well but other people watch what we do and copy and make them cheaper and quicker than we ever could.

I'm quite optimistic that we do still have things to offer the world but we need to be part of a power bloc in order to help set the rules. I see that as ideally being the EU - who will be desperate for us to continue to be successful so that we can continue to help fund the EU state. They won't be so desperate for that if we leave and will naturally look to ensure the EU MS are successful first instead.

I think the popular press has a lot to answer for in its misplaced jingoism and leading people to believe we're stronger than we are.

Great answer. Agree with all of it.

[Wales-Bales]

What evidence is there that a global union will happen? I only ask because the UK has been in the EU since before I was born in 1976. It hasn't happened yet - so this is an exceptionally slow process. Will it happen ahead of HS2?

It says a lot that you need to ask this question. As sure as the common market morphed into a political and economic union, it will become part of a global union. The trouble is you are never told about future plans in a timely manner

[EadosEados]

Because Cameron wants us to stay in.

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

It says a lot that you need to ask this question. As sure as the common market morphed into a political and economic union, it will become part of a global union. The trouble is you are never told about future plans in a timely manner

I asked the question in response to your statement!!!!

[Wales-Bales]

Love your naivety - what makes you think any of our dickheads of a bunch of self-serving politicians have even a fraction of a % of an interest in that happening? Which particular bit do you want back anyway - the bit where we invade and subjugate countries and steal all their resources? The Victorian Age where young lads were sent up chimneys and just a few people owned everything? That's over and there is no going back - same as the Roman Empire is over despite all the advances they invented.

We benefitted from a golden age of invention and empire building, I think what we have to offer the world from here on in is a sense of fairness (perhaps the world's conscience?) and perhaps medical advances. This from a country that is increasingly not owned by us anyway as we've sold off most of our saleable assets in case you hadn't noticed. We still invent things quite well but other people watch what we do and copy and make them cheaper and quicker than we ever could.

I'm quite optimistic that we do still have things to offer the world but we need to be part of a power bloc in order to help set the rules. I see that as ideally being the EU - who will be desperate for us to continue to be successful so that we can continue to help fund the EU state. They won't be so desperate for that if we leave and will naturally look to ensure the EU MS are successful first instead.

I think the popular press has a lot to answer for in its misplaced jingoism and leading people to believe we're stronger than we are.

How can you have "the bit where we invade and subjugate countries and steal all their resources?" and "I think what we have to offer the world from here on in is a sense of fairness (perhaps the world's conscience?)" in the same response?

[Wales-Bales]

I asked the question in response to your statement!!!!

Well people were asking similar questions about the common market becoming a political and economic union. Of course we were told at the time it would never happen, but unbeknown to us it was the plan all along!

[Badly Ironed Shirt]

Well people were asking similar questions about the common market becoming a political and economic union. Of course we were told at the time it would never happen, but unbeknown to us it was the plan all along!

Like I said, why has it taken so long if that was the plan all along? It isn't happening is it?

[Wales-Bales]

Like I said, why has it taken so long if that was the plan all along? It isn't happening is it?

These type of plans take generations to implement and they are in no hurry, but it is clear to see that they have made great progress.

[Whisperer]

A machine to lay rail track, the "Trac Rail Transposer", is patented and goes on to be used by Network Rail in the United Kingdom and the New York Subway in the United States.

British Invention 2005.......took me 2 mins to find on the Net.....this is just one of thousands of things that the British invent and others want.
We are certainly up there when it comes to inventing virtual reality games thats for sure, also we have our hands in the space race.

[rudy gestede]

A machine to lay rail track, the "Trac Rail Transposer", is patented and goes on to be used by Network Rail in the United Kingdom and the New York Subway in the United States.

British Invention 2005.......took me 2 mins to find on the Net.....this is just one of thousands of things that the British invent and others want.
We are certainly up there when it comes to inventing virtual reality games thats for sure, also we have our hands in the space race.

That was invented in the early 90s I think

[Mrs Steve R]

Like I said, why has it taken so long if that was the plan all along? It isn't happening is it?

Subversion can be a slow process, if you can't see that everything has been turned on it's head by now I think you might be in for a surprise.