Doesn't matter how many temporary visas the government make available for EU nationals if only a fraction of them are taken up.
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Doesn't matter how many temporary visas the government make available for EU nationals if only a fraction of them are taken up.
I think Mick is more likely to go with 721 as his next bit of tactical genius.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bloop
Isn’t it only 27 btw?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bloop
127 HGV driversQuote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
Who in their right mind thought the scheme would work?
Ah. The Times is reporting ‘Visas attract just 27 fuel drivers from the EU’Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Labour leader
Thank goodness for Brexit, heh? :-/
Boris said it was 127 on TV this morning. Surely he didn't get that incorrect?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff
Looks like we will have to raise pay, conditions, increase training, maybe create some apprenticeships and create a sustainable economy around the delivery of vital produce that doesn't rely on labour coming in from abroad. No bad thing in the long run, as long as the immigration system is flexible enough to deal with these issues when things have settled down more.
Probably never been a better time in 50 years for people in Britain looking to move into traditional working class jobs.
Yay! Everything's brilliant!Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
It's not a case of everything being brilliant, but it's a case of recognising reality, seeing where the economy is going and extracting positives.Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
It's a sad reality that income inequality has massively grown in this country in the last 40-50 years, and traditional working class jobs in many (not all) cases have born the brunt of that, even though they are often the jobs that the country relies upon to keep going.
We have seen this month how important lorry drivers are. It's time that was recognised and the rates of pay and conditions were increased.
Personally, I view that as a long term positive and greater self sufficiency is more economically and environmentally sustainable in the long run.
The only political state that aims for autarky is North Korea. Self sustainment isn't all you wish it to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I also wonder if these higher wages were at the forefront of yours and every other pro-Brexit supporters thinking 12 months ago? for me its all about changing the narrative now the impact of Brexit is being felt. No-one gave a **** about the lorry drivers back in 2000 when we last had a strike, but now all of a sudden its only right they have a pay rise. utter bollocks.
Firstly, yes, improving wages and living standards for poorer communities generally was a part of my reasoning for voting leave. Not the biggest reason, but a part. Although I should add, if i had 100 votes, 45 of them would have been for Remain, so it's a balanced argument. But yes, it was. I don't agree in a totally laissez faire, deregulated economic model such as the single market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback
Secondly, I don't think arguing for investment in training, apprenticeships, increases in wages or conditions makes someone an advocate for North Korea. No one advocates 'total self sufficiency' it's about 'greater self sufficiency' and that, I would argue is a good thing. It certainly is rarely a bad thing especially when we have a crisis of disaffected youth, communities and training. It makes sense to try and fill some of these gaps closer to home really.
Thirdly, I didn't pay any attention to the 2000 lorry strike as I would have been getting pissed in the student union and chatting up girls but I probably would have had sympathy for their concerns if not all of their actions.
The point is, what is your answer? Rewind history? Open up visas? We've just done that, there is a shortage in the EU too, and a global pandemic on.
The long term sustainable route to this is to make critical jobs like HGV drivers valued, trained and respected properly and make it a viable line of work for people.
Hopefully that happens and I don't see why anyone would oppose that ambition.
A couple of weeks ago, I guessed your age as 40-43. Looks like I was pretty much spot on!Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
:ayatollah:Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
time will tell but I think leaving the worlds largest free market so we can sell widgets to Micronesia tariff free isn't going to have positive impact you think it will.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I was making a point that we live in a global economy and looking to ensure that we can provide all of what we need from within these shores is very American in thinking. We import most of our food, fuel, energy, and building materials. If we try and become any more self-sufficient then we'll fail. The reason we left the EU is so we could forge our own trade deals. Great, we can buy kraft cheese to put on our burgers duty free. but the big purchases like German and French cars, lets whack 10% on to the cost. do you understand why we are seeing inflation at 4% ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
you would have been the only one, as most people back then were pissed off with the inconvenience.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
my answer would be to re-join the worlds largest free trade economy and accept that Britannia no longer rules the waves.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
When you were studying your “Economics-related” course, did you not understand the basic principle of comparative advantage?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I'm not sure why you mention Micronesia, but free trade deals are generally a good thing, I agree. But you don't need strings attached to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback
Yes, we live in a global economy, but the economy is subservient to societies needs. It's no use advocating any impact by saying "well, it's the global economy!" If we can make it work better, we should. I see no reason to fear countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA, South Korea et al.
No one says 'Britannia Rules the Waves' Why do people always litter their arguments with such absurdities. It's like me saying that anyone who is pro-EU believes in the EUSSR or wants a single european state etc. It's just nonsense.
We could have re-joined the single market. Teresa May's deal pretty much advocated that, but people were too busy calling everyone racist and demanding a new referendum to accept it, so we are where we are.
There's loads of reasons why inflation is rising, but German inflation is at 29 year high and the UK's inflation rate is below the eurozone as a whole, so good luck arguing that it's because we left the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/e1a5ce6e-...1-d15a094a4755
https://tradingeconomics.com/country...ntinent=europe
Hello again! I'm still waiting for you to make some long term predictions on the future of the UK economy, so that your angry dismissals can be judged.Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
Attachment 4595
did Johnson just add 100 to the figure to make it seem not quite as tragic
I think a positive will finally , sadly it will hurt for a while .Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
With regards to HGV drivers their jobs and skills and conditions have been poorly eroded over the years partly to do with cheap labour and driving costs down to ensure consumer has the benefits , both in the UK and Europe ,these shortage have been around well before Brexit due to the poor standards of pay and conditions , particularly poor for attracting willing females to the industry .
A white paper was published in 2016 highlighting these issue to Road Haulage Association of these very issues ??
If this just is Brexit why are the 400k of vacancies in Europe alone and many more around the globe ??
I’m not angry. I actually pity you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
BTW I have a lot to do so I don’t spend every waking minute making up wild conjectures based on no theory for message boards.
I see you didn’t answer the question, so I’m going with “no” as your response?
Are you in paid employment? What is it? You seem to have a lot of free time to post idle bollocks on here.
If only arrogance could provide power then the global gas price crisis would be over pretty quickly!Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
I actually made predictions about the future of the UK economy - predictions that can be assessed. You haven't, you've just shouted out a few slogans and not put anything up to be judged against, and when called out on it, you hand pick some other academic theory whilst ignoring the current reality. That speaks for itself.
Have a nice day and enjoy the Arizona sun.
Have a word with yourself. Feedy’s owned you here for your lack of consistency. You can’t argue for self sufficiency and for more free trade. As I thought, you don’t understand the principle of comparative advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
quite simple really, why bother selling on your doorstep in the worlds largest economy when you can sell to someone else on the other side of the planet.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
No one fears these countries, it just makes no sense to look for trade deals with South Korea at the expense of a trade deal with Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
the only only absurdity is Brexit and the £350m per week for the NHS. The point being made was that some people think the UK requires world power and prestige, and we do not.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
non sequitur. Even if we remained in the EU we were outside the Eurozone so we would not have been impacted by eurozone based inflation. where we are being impacted is the additional costs incurred on importing the vast majority of what we consume, given its all made in the EU.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I for one am not looking forward to buying American pony cars instead of the German and Italian Gts that are so much more sexier.
Can I thank various posters, including Feedback and AZ City for putting the stupid arguers for Brexit in their place far more succinctly than I ever could
I cannot get my head around anyone with 1 brain cell could still think it was a good economic idea. They must be in a state of denial.
The shit is hitting the fan. It will get a lot worse.
That’s laughable. The benefits of (free) international trade and the principle of comparative are the first things any student of Economics would come across.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Don’t conjecture any more. You’re posting bollocks.
Ah, the poor old lorry drivers who wanted public sympathy in 2000 when 16 years previous they were ploughing through picket lines and counting the dosh.
Even Jacob Rees Mogg thinks it could take 50 years to "reap the benefits" of Brexit. Which of course would never actually materialise. Because by then, most of the people who voted for it will be long dead, and if we've had to sit through even 20 years of it being a bad decision, then it will get reversed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Labour leader
No he hasn't. And yes, you can. You can argue for a more balanced economy and trade deals that do not come with strings attached in terms of non economic matters. Very few free trade deals require the almost total absence of cross-border deregulation that the single market does.Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
how about food and animal welfare standards?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
1 - No one advocates less trade with Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback
2- No one advocates trade with South Korea for trade with Germany. Quite the opposite; the EU trade deal actively prevents a bilateral deal with, for example, South Korea.
3 - The NHS is actually receiving far more than £350m a week even accounting for inflation. It wasn't a direct transfer of EU contributions to the NHS, but the commitment was met. I agree, the UK doesn't need more prestige.
4 - Currect me if I'm weong, but you are claiming inflation is caused by Brexit, when our inflation rate is lower than the eurozone, so your argument is somewhat weak.
Again, more insults, more theory, no facts. Put up some sound predictions so they can be judged. I'm happy to make some clear, quantifiable predictions on inflation, the £, unemployment, wages, GDP etc. I've done that already, you claimed it was bollocks, but didn't put any prediction up.Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
Academics often get accused of dealing in theory not reality. I have argued that was unfair, but perhaps I was wrong?
what strings did access to the EU come with?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
as for deregulation, you need to make your mind up. Once of the principle reasons given by the pro-Brexit movement was removing purported unaccountable bureaucrats from our decision making process, thus freeing us from the red-tape mad Brussels bureaucracy. Bendy bananas etc etc....
so if you don't mind, please confirm if the EU was no regulation, or just red tape?
NB the EU Commission was akin to the UK civil service, and is appointed by the EU Parliament much in the way the UK civil service is. Hardly unaccountable as its appointed is made by those we directly elect to represent us.
They haven't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Labour leader
The economic benefits of being in or outside of the EU are a pretty complex debate. If you compare comparative advanced western countries such as France, UK, Germany, Spain, Italy et al with those outside such as Norway, South Korea, Japan, Australia, Canada, USA etc then it doesn't suggest EU membership benefits economies in any identifiable way - GDP growth is generally lower. Unemployment is generally higher etc.
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
#coughs in american#
I don't anticipate any lowering of food standards. Animal welfare is anything will be enhanced if things like live animal exports are outlawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Not direcltly related, but in terms of land management, I think the proposed replacement to CAP is much better.
but that is the unintended consequence of leaving the EU, as we have to follow WHO rules, adding more costs to trade with the Germans.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
no it does not. The EU has a trade deal with South Korea. The EU negotiates on behalf of all member states. do you advocate Wales, N Ireland, Scotland and England all negotiate their own deals, or do you think we should negotiate as one political block getting a better deal overall?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
why the straight face when you say this?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I am saying that inflation was always going to happen because we import a large part of what we consume, which primarily came from the EU. Goods which previously did not have VAT or duty now do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
yet all of those highlighted are joining their own free trade blocs - why is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
do you really believe the US has better animal welfare regulations that the EU?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
A “free trade deal” would entail no barriers whether tariff or non-tariff. You’re arguing for implicit or explicit non-tariff barriers which means it wouldn’t be free trade. It’s inconsistent to simultaneously argue for self-sufficiency and (real) free trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Here`s a conjecture for you. GB (not NI) will be worse off forever as a result of leaving the EU.