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Project fear was right all along.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Indeed. Curious that James "Philomena Cunk" Wales is notably absent.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Project fear wasn't right at all 😆 Osborne said the fall out of a leave vote would be so catastrophic they'd need an emergency budget. Ofcourse that WAS project fear. Like the American president saying Britain would be at the back the queue for a trade deal. People are conflating global economic problems just because they can't accept that Brexit hasn't been a catastrophe
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperboreanCCFC
Like the American president saying Britain would be at the back the queue for a trade deal.
So we have a trade deal with the Americans?
Brexit and the current tories are the last tantrum of a generation that can't handle a world that wants more equality and improvement in life quality for all. Those who ingested lead paint as kids have done their best to make the lives of generations that come after them more difficult.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
So we have a trade deal with the Americans?
Brexit and the current tories are the last tantrum of a generation that can't handle a world that wants more equality and improvement in life quality for all. Those who ingested lead paint as kids have done their best to make the lives of generations that come after them more difficult.
Bro, the other countries are doing just as bad or even worse than us, so how do you explain that?
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
We told them so but they wouldn't listen
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperboreanCCFC
Project fear wasn't right at all 😆 Osborne said the fall out of a leave vote would be so catastrophic they'd need an emergency budget. Ofcourse that WAS project fear. Like the American president saying Britain would be at the back the queue for a trade deal. People are conflating global economic problems just because they can't accept that Brexit hasn't been a catastrophe
Is that the view from Litherland?
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Bro, the other countries are doing just as bad or even worse than us, so how do you explain that?
They aren't though really are they.
What's your proof of this?
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperboreanCCFC
Project fear wasn't right at all 😆 Osborne said the fall out of a leave vote would be so catastrophic they'd need an emergency budget. Ofcourse that WAS project fear. Like the American president saying Britain would be at the back the queue for a trade deal. People are conflating global economic problems just because they can't accept that Brexit hasn't been a catastrophe
It's a crapstorm
You idiots
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
az city
Indeed. Curious that James "Philomena Cunk" Wales is notably absent.
He's moved to Brussels
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperboreanCCFC
Project fear wasn't right at all 😆 Osborne said the fall out of a leave vote would be so catastrophic they'd need an emergency budget. Ofcourse that WAS project fear. Like the American president saying Britain would be at the back the queue for a trade deal. People are conflating global economic problems just because they can't accept that Brexit hasn't been a catastrophe
Sterling losing nearly 20% of it's value against the euro since brexit is catastrophic, living standards for middle and lower income families falling to lower levels than any other Northern European economy is catastrophic, a government debt trajectory that could unless there are swingeing public sector cuts lead to an imf bailout is catastrophic, the only country forced to restart QE to buy its own debt, business supply chains totally ducked due to to red tape, customs and border delays. The list goes on and on. What happened to substance FDI into Wales? It used to be a thing once you know, unsurprisingly this seems to have all but vanished as we can no longer compete with our neighbours due our inability to provide a frictionless trading environment with Europe.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
They wanted the power to rip up workers’ rights. They are still planning this. It won’t happen now of course. They are finished.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
They wanted the power to rip up workers’ rights. They are still planning this. It won’t happen now of course. They are finished.
If they fail to rip up worker's rights it could prove a brake on project Brexit. Other willful acts of sabotage on environmental, planning, consumer and welfare issues could also prove unattainable because the political climate seems to have shifted from the heady days of 2016.
Now that the public have seen just how destructive right wing, libertarian, free market politics really are then such ideology will hopefully never have a chance to rear it's ugly head here ever again.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Project fear was right all along.
Attachment 5256
Enjoy the show :biggrin:
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Now let's take a look at the same graph but up to August this year instead of May.
https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/stat...p4WXb75zA&s=19
I've said this repeatedly on this board that you have a bunch of right wingers who don't understand data. You cherry pick information and apply your own narrative to it in the face of overwhelming evidence and act as if its fact.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
Now let's take a look at the same graph but up to August this year instead of May.
https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/stat...p4WXb75zA&s=19
I've said this repeatedly on this board that you have a bunch of right wingers who don't understand data. You cherry pick information and apply your own narrative to it in the face of overwhelming evidence and act as if its fact.
Why are you getting worked up over a graph, it's all nonsense designed to keep you distracted. The real power players operate in the shadows, and they are the ones who you should be concerned about.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
Now let's take a look at the same graph but up to August this year instead of May.
https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/stat...p4WXb75zA&s=19
I've said this repeatedly on this board that you have a bunch of right wingers who don't understand data. You cherry pick information and apply your own narrative to it in the face of overwhelming evidence and act as if its fact.
Even if it was accurate matching Germany GDP when there's a war on their doorstep and being so heavily reliant on imported energy from Russia is hardly a reason to gloat.
If you track accurate up to date output from before the UK voted Brexit to the latest release and factor sterling devaluation then UK output is 70% the size of Germany, it was 90% before Brexit. Thats a £700 billion spread on output. For Wales particularly there is no economic upside leaving the EU, none whatsoever, only downside, it's just made us even more heavily reliant on block grant trickle down from a central source that is struggling to retain fiscal solvency.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pilkers
Even if it was accurate matching Germany GDP when there's a war on their doorstep and being so heavily reliant on imported energy from Russia is hardly a reason to gloat.
If you track accurate up to date output from before the UK voted Brexit to the latest release and factor sterling devaluation then UK output is 70% the size of Germany, it was 90% before Brexit. Thats a £700 billion spread on output. For Wales particularly there is no economic upside leaving the EU, none whatsoever, only downside, it's just made us even more heavily reliant on block grant trickle down from a central source that is struggling to retain fiscal solvency.
I think we'll have another EU referendum within 5 years and it'll be a decidedly huge vote in favour of rejoining. These scary last few weeks might well have sealed Brexit's fate for good.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
I think we'll have another EU referendum within 5 years and it'll be a decidedly huge vote in favour of rejoining. These scary last few weeks might well have sealed Brexit's fate for good.
The EU probably won't even exist in 5 years, so good luck with that.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The EU probably won't even exist in 5 years, so good luck with that.
Neither will most brexiters.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
I think we'll have another EU referendum within 5 years and it'll be a decidedly huge vote in favour of rejoining. These scary last few weeks might well have sealed Brexit's fate for good.
Will there be a UK in 5 years? Maybe, doubt it will still exist in 10 years time thou. Surely the time the Scots will leave if they are allowed another referendum, reunification of Ireland also looking inevitable in the next decade.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The EU probably won't even exist in 5 years, so good luck with that.
After the complete monumental clusterfuk the UK has made of leaving the EU I'm calling that it most certainly will.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
Neither will most brexiters.
True, we lost 5 people from my street during the past week, I'm not sure if they were evil brexiteers or good remainers though.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pilkers
After the complete monumental clusterfuk the UK has made of leaving the EU I'm calling that it most certainly will.
Unless you are pulling the strings behind the scenes, then you have no say in the future direction of the world.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pilkers
Will there be a UK in 5 years? Maybe, doubt it will still exist in 10 years time thou. Surely the time the Scots will leave if they are allowed another referendum, reunification of Ireland also looking inevitable in the next decade.
Yes you're right and I'm taking the reunification of Ireland as a given. Scotland might prove different however with the removal of this rotten government. Also a more progressive outlook with the prospect of EU re-engagement could quell the urge for Scottish Independence.
There's little doubt that although being fiercely patriotic to Scotland many Scots have a deep rooted hatred of the Tories and the "little England" mentality. A new progressive, internationalist Westminster administration may well turn the tide up North.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
az city
Indeed. Curious that James "Philomena Cunk" Wales is notably absent.
:hehe:
Sorry, it was Sunday afternoon, I was out walking instead of stalking the posts of CCMB and you expected me to post within 90 minutes!?
I’m not changing an opinion due to one Daily Telegraph opinion piece.
'Project fear’ which of course consisted of a myriad of different themes, but is perhaps most solidly demonstrated in the statements made by the chancellor in the weeks before the referendum, which included a huge rise in unemployment, a recession, a house price collapse, stock market collapse etc, just for voting to leave. None of that happened.
Now it can be strongly argued that Brexit hasn't helped matters, that may be true, but two months after leaving a global pandemic hit. As that was winding down, a war between Europes two largest countries erupted. That impacts upon things.
Notwithstanding the chaos of the last few weeks, which are of course nothing to do with a referendum from 2016, can you name a comparable European country that isn't experiencing more-or-less the exact same problems we are?
Name a country.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
:hehe:
Sorry, it was Sunday afternoon, I was out walking instead of stalking the posts of CCMB and you expected me to post within 90 minutes!?
I’m not changing an opinion due to one Daily Telegraph opinion piece.
'Project fear’ which of course consisted of a myriad of different themes, but is perhaps most solidly demonstrated in the statements made by the chancellor in the weeks before the referendum, which included a huge rise in unemployment, a recession, a house price collapse, stock market collapse etc, just for voting to leave. None of that happened.
Now it can be strongly argued that Brexit hasn't helped matters, that may be true, but two months after leaving a global pandemic hit. As that was winding down, a war between Europes two largest countries erupted. That impacts upon things.
Notwithstanding the chaos of the last few weeks, which are of course nothing to do with a referendum from 2016, can you name a comparable European country that isn't experiencing more-or-less the exact same problems we are?
Name a country.
iI'll start trying to name some when you start listing other countries that have had their knuckles rapped in the past month by the IMF for their fiscal policies - making out that we're no different from anyone else simply isn't true.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
iI'll start trying to name some when you start listing other countries that have had their knuckles rapped in the past month by the IMF for their fiscal policies - making out that we're no different from anyone else simply isn't true.
I've quite clearly stated there.. "notwithstanding the chaos of the last few weeks". The mini budget (or at least it's delivery and some of its content) was clearly a grave error, but nothing to do with Brexit. Thats what this thread is about, no?
Again, can anyone name a comparable European country not undergoing more or less the same problems as the UK at the moment?
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
So we have a trade deal with the Americans?
Brexit and the current tories are the last tantrum of a generation that can't handle a world that wants more equality and improvement in life quality for all. Those who ingested lead paint as kids have done their best to make the lives of generations that come after them more difficult.
We're in talks with the Americans. Are you genuinely saying with a straight face that we are "at the back of the queue"? 😆
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperboreanCCFC
We're in talks with the Americans. Are you genuinely saying with a straight face that we are "at the back of the queue"?
Liz Truss on 20 September:
"There aren't currently any negotiations taking place with the US and I don't have an expectation that those are going to start in the short to medium term."
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pilkers
Sterling losing nearly 20% of it's value against the euro since brexit is catastrophic, living standards for middle and lower income families falling to lower levels than any other Northern European economy is catastrophic, a government debt trajectory that could unless there are swingeing public sector cuts lead to an imf bailout is catastrophic, the only country forced to restart QE to buy its own debt, business supply chains totally ducked due to to red tape, customs and border delays. The list goes on and on. What happened to substance FDI into Wales? It used to be a thing once you know, unsurprisingly this seems to have all but vanished as we can no longer compete with our neighbours due our inability to provide a frictionless trading environment with Europe.
😆
How much of the 20% loss occured after Lizz Truss plan? Which has nothing to do with Brexit.
Do you have evidence that the middle class now have the lowest standard of living in Northern Europe?
If an IMF bailout occurs it will down to Lizz Truss audacious attempt to stimulate growth with uncosted tax cuts. Nothing to do with Brexit yer numpty 😆
QE resuming was again a response to Lizz Truss economic policy. Supply chains are not "totally ducked" at all. Why are you lying to yourself like this?
What is the FDI into Wales?
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
Liz Truss on 20 September:
"There aren't currently any negotiations taking place with the US and I don't have an expectation that those are going to start in the short to medium term."
That doesn't mean we're "at the back of the queue" we could still be at the front of the queue. Where is your evidence we are at the back of the queue behind countries in Africa...?
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HyperboreanCCFC
That doesn't mean we're "at the back of the queue" we could still be at the front of the queue. Where is your evidence we are at the back of the queue behind countries in Africa...?
I haven't said we are at the back of the queue. You need to look on the left of your screen to see who has responded to you.
You said "We're in talks with the Americans." The PM says we're not and won't be starting any time soon.
So where is your evidence that "We're in talks with the Americans"?
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I've quite clearly stated there.. "notwithstanding the chaos of the last few weeks". The mini budget (or at least it's delivery and some of its content) was clearly a grave error, but nothing to do with Brexit. Thats what this thread is about, no?
Again, can anyone name a comparable European country not undergoing more or less the same problems as the UK at the moment?
Well, I thought you’d done your normal taking charge thing and made it into another thread where you lecture us about how we’re no worse off than France, Germany etc. I merely pointed out that the IMF, and the US President it seems, believes that we are a stand out example of woeful financial management and you cannot just dismiss what you call “grave errors” as if they don’t count somehow.like you’re trying to do with your use of the word “notwithstanding”.
It’s not critics on here that the you need to convince that you are still right about Brexit, it’s a writer at that Brexit cheerleader the Dailty telegraph. However, seeing as you ask, wouldn’t you have thought that getting towards six and a half years after the vote, here would be some stand out event, policy or agreement that Brexiteers could point to and say this has brought lasting, unarguable benefit to everyone in the UK? I can’t think of anything which fits that bill.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
The pound is back to where it was, so obviously nothing to do with project fear, more like project hate.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Well, I thought you’d done your normal taking charge thing and made it into another thread where you lecture us about how we’re no worse off than France, Germany etc. I merely pointed out that the IMF, and the US President it seems, believes that we are a stand out example of woeful financial management and you cannot just dismiss what you call “grave errors” as if they don’t count somehow.like you’re trying to do with your use of the word “notwithstanding”.
It’s not critics on here that the you need to convince that you are still right about Brexit, it’s a writer at that Brexit cheerleader the Dailty telegraph. However, seeing as you ask, wouldn’t you have thought that getting towards six and a half years after the vote, here would be some stand out event, policy or agreement that Brexiteers could point to and say this has brought lasting, unarguable benefit to everyone in the UK? I can’t think of anything which fits that bill.
You often do this - A thread deviates from your desired direction and you claim there's some kind of mischief at play. I don't lecture anyone Bob, I merely respond to your posts and try and back up my arguments with evidence. Maybe read some of your posts from my position, and see how they sound? It's not lecturing, it's how forums are supposed to work, no? I think it's more fun than just coming on and agreeing with everything you say. We are all grown ups. You say xyz is because of Brexit, I'm saying, if so, show me why this is also happening to countries that havent left the EU. It's not a hard question.
In terms of Brexit, as I said, two months after leaving we had a global pandemic followed by a war in Europe. No countries outlook looks better now than it did three years ago. The potential global trade benefits of Brexit were clearly curtailed by the global economy almost shutting down, and any benefits in terms of wage growth (which is up) is taken out by inflation impacting us all.
The big story since we left of course was the pandemic. Ursula Von Der Leyen herself, did say the UK is like a speedboat compared to the EU tanker, when it came to vaccines. So you can start your list with that?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...boat-eu-tanker
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
You often do this - A thread deviates from your desired direction and you claim there's some kind of mischief at play. I don't lecture anyone Bob, I merely respond to your posts and try and back up my arguments with evidence. Maybe read some of your posts from my position, and see how they sound? It's not lecturing, it's how forums are supposed to work, no? I think it's more fun than just coming on and agreeing with everything you say. We are all grown ups. You say xyz is because of Brexit, I'm saying, if so, show me why this is also happening to countries that havent left the EU. It's not a hard question.
In terms of Brexit, as I said, two months after leaving we had a global pandemic followed by a war in Europe. No countries outlook looks better now than it did three years ago. The potential global trade benefits of Brexit were clearly curtailed by the global economy almost shutting down, and any benefits in terms of wage growth (which is up) is taken out by inflation impacting us all.
The big story since we left of course was the pandemic. Ursula Von Der Leyen herself, did say the UK is like a speedboat compared to the EU tanker, when it came to vaccines. So you can start your list with that?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...boat-eu-tanker
I think after your exile from here the last few days ......gosh knows why .....your input is no longer relevant .
You have clearly been preparing your speech but it's the words of a beaten man supporting a hopeless government .
You have been nailed .
The verbosity King is dead .
Onwards !
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I think after your exile from here the last few days ......gosh knows why .....your input is no longer relevant .
You have clearly been preparing your speech but it's the words of a beaten man supporting a hopeless government .
You have been nailed .
The verbosity King is dead .
Onwards !
Verbosity, moi!? :hehe:
Talking of writing too much, only one word is needed to answer my question..just one word. Any comparable European country. There's several to choose from. If they are all experiencing severe economic issues at the moment and they have not left the EU, that would rather suggest that the cause of the issue is not as this thread implies.
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Verbosity, moi!? :hehe:
Talking of writing too much, only one word is needed to answer my question..just one word. Any comparable European country. There's several to choose from. If they are all experiencing severe economic issues at the moment and they have not left the EU, that would rather suggest that the cause of the issue is not as this thread implies.
I have no idea what the question was Jim
I was just waiting for you to come in from the
shed of broken dreams
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Re: Project fear was right all along.
I’ll always give the UK Government credit for their vaccine roll out, but, surely, you should look at the pandemic as a whole and the UK was weak on things like track and trace, PPEs and cronyism. France and Germany have both had in the region of 10 million more cases than us, but our total deaths and deaths per million figures are higher than them.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Therefore, if you are wanting to take the pandemic as a whole, it seems to me that the EU countries you seem eager to compare us with outperformed Brexit Britain.