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Why is it with the Tories we have
Cost of living crisis.
Austerity.
Constant ways of reducing public spending to the point where essential services are under threat.
Why is life, for those at the bottom of the ladder, always harder for those under a Tory government.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Cost of living crisis.
Austerity.
Constant ways of reducing public spending to the point where essential services are under threat.
Why is life, for those at the bottom of the ladder, always harder for those under a Tory government.
Because those at the bottom of the ladder in general don't vote in the numbers those higher up do so they are not punished as much for being horrible by those that are affected
It's noticeable that the conservatives gave the go ahead for the furlough scheme during covid because although it went totally against their philosophy of being tight gits .....
The còvid affected everybody , especially their core voters and ....if they hadn't done it their would have been rioting in the streets
Again those on
Universal credit ......lower
Down the ladder .....had a few extra quid for a year or so but as soon as they could the Tories snatched it off them ......again they could get away with it .....but mess about with the core voters and they suddenly find the cash .....eg furlough
What makes me laugh is that the Tories tell their voters oh we will cut taxes for you , vote for us
Then the services these tories get from local councils are cut because money from central government is reduced
And these same people then moan about crap services from councils .....
I hope to christ the penny drops one day
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Cost of living crisis.
Austerity.
Constant ways of reducing public spending to the point where essential services are under threat.
Why is life, for those at the bottom of the ladder, always harder for those under a Tory government.
Be fair Eric, looks like we’re going to get a pre election tax cut tomorrow because of how they’ve managed to “halve inflation”.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Be fair Eric, looks like we’re going to get a pre election tax cut tomorrow because of how they’ve managed to “halve inflation”.
It's O. K TOBW, you don't have to pretend, early retirement and your top up state pension is safe, life's good isn't it?. On my way to work to pay in some more contributions towards your early retirement I'm not bitter, happy to help 👍
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heathblue
It's O. K TOBW, you don't have to pretend, early retirement and your top up state pension is safe, life's good isn't it?. On my way to work to pay in some more contributions towards your early retirement I'm not bitter, happy to help
And that ladies and gentleman is what is known as playing the man, rather than the ball.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Why is life, for those at the bottom of the ladder, always harder for those under a Tory government.
Because Tories and the people that vote for them only care about themselves.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stevo
Because Tories and the people that vote for them only care about themselves.
Blair - did he only care about himself ? , what about Lord Kinnock, MP pension, MEP pension, EU commissioner pension (whilst employing his son and his wife) before they also both became MEPs - a real man of the people there.
How about Geoff Hoon with his private consultancy work whilst defence secretary, Mandelson and the cash for passports - the list is endless on both sides.
Rachel Reeves and her own book - copy and pasted from wikipedia, or perhaps the leadership skills or Angie Raynor - cant wait for that sh1t show to happen.
Gordon announces he has ended boom and bust - just before he bust's the economy with his light hand on the finance regs. Once you have been around the block a few times your start to see the pattern. 12 years in power for Blair / Brown - 13 years for the tories - too much for any party. Yet in Wales we have 26 years of Labour....
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Cost of living crisis.
Austerity.
Constant ways of reducing public spending to the point where essential services are under threat.
Why is life, for those at the bottom of the ladder, always harder for those under a Tory government.
Is this true though?
I'm sure there's an interesting debate to be had, but it's unlikely when the starting point is the scenario outlined.
Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain?
Is Tory Britain worse than Social Democrat Germany or Socialist Party Spain or Portugal, or centrist France?
Do we actually have austerity now?
Did Labour oppose austerity a decade ago?
Is life at the bottom really harder now than 12, 15 years ago?
If so, are these all the result of the UK govt or are other factors at play?
Where we remove the Tories from many policies such as in Wales, do there problems get much better?
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
I'm sure there's an interesting debate to be had, but it's unlikely when the starting point is the scenario outlined.
To answer
Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain? - no
Is Tory Britain worse than Social Democrat Germany or Socialist Party Spain or Portugal, or centrist France? no - possibly worst in Germany
Do we actually have austerity now? - no I dont belileve so - see below though.
Did Labour oppose austerity a decade ago? - yes
Is life at the bottom really harder now than 12, 15 years ago? - inflation caused by various external factors didnt help but coming bacj down to within range now.
If so, are these all the result of the UK govt or are other factors at play? - other factors as we know, Covid, Ukraine, Brexit uncertainty - now mostly gone.
Where we remove the Tories from many policies such as in Wales, do there problems get much better? - worse. Labour over spent the budget by 900,000,000 (20% of the budget I think) and has now cut every one of the Senedd's dept spending - apart from climate change. Drakeford doing his own austerity now.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
I'm sure there's an interesting debate to be had, but it's unlikely when the starting point is the scenario outlined.
To answer
Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain? - no
Is Tory Britain worse than Social Democrat Germany or Socialist Party Spain or Portugal, or centrist France? no - possibly worst in Germany
Do we actually have austerity now? - no I dont belileve so - see below though.
Did Labour oppose austerity a decade ago? - yes
Is life at the bottom really harder now than 12, 15 years ago? - inflation caused by various external factors didnt help but coming bacj down to within range now.
If so, are these all the result of the UK govt or are other factors at play? - other factors as we know, Covid, Ukraine, Brexit uncertainty - now mostly gone.
Where we remove the Tories from many policies such as in Wales, do there problems get much better? - worse. Labour over spent the budget by 900,000,000 (20% of the budget I think) and has now cut every one of the Senedd's dept spending - apart from climate change. Drakeford doing his own austerity now.
That's more or less my assessment. Although Labour did support austerity, although perhaps it wouldn't have continued as long under them.
I don't think we are remotely better off living in Wales. Not one bit, perhaps aside from the generally cheaper housing.
There's a lot of societal changes too that have happened in the last decade or more. Now the govt could (and in my opinion should) have mitigated these more, but things like mobile phones, the internet, technological changes, WFH, even social media, Instagram etc..it changes how we interact and is making us unhappier IMO.
None of it means the govt come off scot-free. Not at all. I just don't think its much better elsewhere and I don't think it would be much different under another govt.
This idea of a "tory cost of living crisis". That basically ignores the millions and millions of people essentially experiencing the same issues across the whole of the west
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
As sure as Tuesday follows Monday the ccmb young conservatives appear with the yeah but no but yeah what about bollocks
It's nauseating
Tax cuts ......oh blimey an election is on its way , the tories are cutting tax when the public finances are in a fecking load of pig swill
Absolute snake oil salesmen and complete chancers
I can't wait till they get leathered at the election , poor old penny mordant with her pathetic stand up and fight clown show
Bunch of liars
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
As sure as Tuesday follows Monday the ccmb young conservatives appear with the yeah but no but yeah what about bollocks
It's nauseating
Tax cuts ......oh blimey an election is on its way , the tories are cutting tax when the public finances are in a fecking load of pig swill
Absolute snake oil salesmen and complete chancers
I can't wait till they get leathered at the election , poor old penny mordant with her pathetic stand up and fight clown show
Bunch of liars
Why not answer some of the points ?
As well as compare to how we are doing in terms of cancer wait times, education results, 'road building', infrastructure, Senedd budget cuts - that sort of thing..
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Why not answer some of the points ?
As well as compare to how we are doing in terms of cancer wait times, education results, 'road building', infrastructure, Senedd budget cuts - that sort of thing..
Answer the questions without insulting the posters asking them. Now that would be a fine thing!
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Answer the questions without insulting the posters asking them. Now that would be a fine thing!
It’s difficult not to insult Tories. Evil is evil.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
It’s difficult not to insult Tories. Evil is evil.
Good one.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Because they aren't very good at adapting to different situations, conservatism is basically the application of low risk policies that have always just about worked. They don't take into account extraordinary circumstances so for example, when debt was super cheap, they weren't borrowing to build, they were cutting and celebrating those cuts as if they were winning.
The main problem is however that the UK is in terminal decline, hastened by brexit and we all have very little to look forward to.
People seem so numb to the fact that real terms incomes for middle earners have reduced so drastically in 10 years that it is pretty much unprecedented. Rising prices, frozen tax bands and below inflation pay rises eventually mean you can't afford a loaf of bread with your monthly take home, at some point this has to reverse otherwise the future is inevitable.
Oh and house prices, it's a perfect storm of shit.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
And that ladies and gentleman is what is known as playing the man, rather than the ball.
Yup acknowledged, been the victim myself on occasions so I thought I'd join the party. Apologies if any offence taken I was being mischievous,
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Is this true though?
I'm sure there's an interesting debate to be had, but it's unlikely when the starting point is the scenario outlined.
Agreed, but I don't think your starting point of 'everything is good' is productive either
Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain?
At a macro level possible not, at an individual level yes. Another decade of below inflation pay rises, frozen tax bands, rampant increase in COL and we have more people who are left vulnerable and unable to withstand even the slightest economic shock.
Is Tory Britain worse than Social Democrat Germany or Socialist Party Spain or Portugal, or centrist France?
Worse for who? For median and low earners, yes it is likely to be.
https://www.ft.com/content/85971473-...3-efcad0829044
Do we actually have austerity now?
We just canned our largest infrastructure project in decades replacing it with hot air, are cutting benefits during the winter of a cost of living crisis and freezing tax bands for the 28 millionth year in a row. I will let you decide.
Did Labour oppose austerity a decade ago?
No, they recognised they were losing that argument and played politics. Austerity is likely to be our biggest mistake, even in the context of Brexit. We had a stagnant economy while other countries were taking advantage of favourable conditions and the tories managed to trick people into thinking they were doing well
Is life at the bottom really harder now than 12, 15 years ago?
Yes definitely
If so, are these all the result of the UK govt or are other factors at play?
Both
Where we remove the Tories from many policies such as in Wales, do there problems get much better?
Wales is an almost unprecedented basket case and it shows how ****ed the UK is that tories use it as a benchmark, the answer above applies to Wales as well.
.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Why not answer some of the points ?
As well as compare to how we are doing in terms of cancer wait times, education results, 'road building', infrastructure, Senedd budget cuts - that sort of thing..
I am not interesting in political debate with tory boys
You lot are weasels with more faces that a town hall clock
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dave Blue
It’s difficult not to insult Tories. Evil is evil.
I can't be having anything to do with these ferrets
Fancy sitting in a cafe having a cuppa with someone who is going to vote for cuts to welfare and social services .....
It's like sleeping with the enemy
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stevo
Because Tories and the people that vote for them only care about themselves.
Tories don't give a toss about the crumbling schools system , welfare , social services
Unless of course it affects their family directly then they are out there with the placards marching up and down the street
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
My question is were such draconian austerity measures required and what would have happened if they weren’t implemented?
It seems as though they were never reversed and as a result there have been catastrophic consequences for law and order in society as well as council services.
The lack of police on the streets as well as the rise in tents on city centre streets tell me things haven’t gone well.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I can't be having anything to do with these ferrets
Fancy sitting in a cafe having a cuppa with someone who is going to vote for cuts to welfare and social services .....
It's like sleeping with the enemy
You realise the UK is spending more on welfare than ever before, right?
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
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Interesting and cheers for answering. I don't disagree with all of that at all.
For clarity, my starting point isn't that 'everything is good' at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I would probably be as critical of our society and economy as anyone. My point is that those with the starting point that it's all the govts fault and a change fixes that are, in my opinion, incorrect. It would likely change nothing.
Elsewhere you said that Britain is in terminal decline. What evidence is there of that, or that it's particularly different to other countries? Because that's another of my broad points - the issues we experience are broadly speaking felt everywhere else. And that suggests the cause and the solutions lie elsewhere too.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Interesting and cheers for answering. I don't disagree with all of that at all.
For clarity, my starting point isn't that 'everything is good' at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I would probably be as critical of our society and economy as anyone. My point is that those with the starting point that it's all the govts fault and a change fixes that are, in my opinion, incorrect. It would likely change nothing.
Elsewhere you said that Britain is in terminal decline. What evidence is there of that, or that it's particularly different to other countries? Because that's another of my broad points - the issues we experience are broadly speaking felt everywhere else. And that suggests the cause and the solutions lie elsewhere too.
It's more of a nod to the fact that whilst all our problems aren't caused by 2008, austerity, brexit, COVID, they were petrol on the fire, but the trend was established before then.
We do seem to have made more bad decisions than most countries and the UK is a definite outlier in its hostility towards working people over the past two decades. Disposable income in the middle and lower bands does tend to be higher in other comparable countries but broadly speaking everybody is facing the same issues.
When we have discussed this before I always get the impression you think I'm doom mongering and that the true picture is quite rosey. Triple lock is a great example of why I am so negative about the UK. Both major parties know that triple lock is unsustainable in even the medium term but have no plan for saying 'job done' and phasing it into something that makes more sense now.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I can't be having anything to do with these ferrets
Fancy sitting in a cafe having a cuppa with someone who is going to vote for cuts to welfare and social services .....
It's like sleeping with the enemy
Jesus H Christ - you are such an imbecile 99% of the time
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
'Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain?'
To add to Eric's points above, the state has been so hollowed out between 2010 and 2019 (national government as well as local - see the criminal justice system crisis as one example) that there is little collective resilience to provide a net behind individuals and families who have seen wages fall and costs rise over that period. We have a poorer (for most) and weaker country than pre financial crisis. Some of the causes are beyond the control of any government, but the Cult of Austerity was home grown.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
You realise the UK is spending more on welfare than ever before, right?
That's because of covid and the state of the economy
It's not because you Tories are generous people
This oh yeah we are spending more now than ever doesn't mean anything other than more people are in need , there is more poverty and the cost to the state has increased
It doesn't mean the conservatives are suddenly paying out loads on money to people on the dole
The NHS is costing us more money as the cost of cleaning products , replacement beds , uniforms , computers and everything else is going up
It's not down to the kindness and generosity of the Tories
Jesus wept
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Jesus H Christ - you are such an imbecile 99% of the time
I am sorry but if you think I spend my time having cosy chats with conservative voters then you better think again
As far as I am concerned chummy conversations with people who vote for welfare cuts , screwing the nurses and doctors and privatising everything is best left to people who have the inclination to do it
If I know someone is a tory then I really don't have much time for them and I certainly wouldn't be meeting them for coffee and a chat
I would have very little in common with them and that's the way it is as far as I am concerned
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wash DC Blue
My question is were such draconian austerity measures required and what would have happened if they weren’t implemented?
It seems as though they were never reversed and as a result there have been catastrophic consequences for law and order in society as well as council services.
The lack of police on the streets as well as the rise in tents on city centre streets tell me things haven’t gone well.
The Tories used the aftermath of a financial crisis to push the strangulation of public services
It was ideological
I think they enjoy it
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
That's because of covid and the state of the economy
It's not because you Tories are generous people
This oh yeah we are spending more now than ever doesn't mean anything other than more people are in need , there is more poverty and the cost to the state has increased
It doesn't mean the conservatives are suddenly paying out loads on money to people on the dole
The NHS is costing us more money as the cost of cleaning products , replacement beds , uniforms , computers and everything else is going up
It's not down to the kindness and generosity of the Tories
Jesus wept
Tories spend on welfare - Evil bastards
Tories don't spend on welfare - Evil bastards.
The reasons are disputable, but the fact is that you were wrong.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
'Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain?'
To add to Eric's points above, the state has been so hollowed out between 2010 and 2019 (national government as well as local - see the criminal justice system crisis as one example) that there is little collective resilience to provide a net behind individuals and families who have seen wages fall and costs rise over that period. We have a poorer (for most) and weaker country than pre financial crisis. Some of the causes are beyond the control of any government, but the Cult of Austerity was home grown.
I don't disagree. But remember this was the case in most places. Remember the EUs battle with Greece?
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Tories spend on welfare - Evil bastards
Tories don't spend on welfare - Evil bastards.
The reasons are disputable, but the fact is that you were wrong.
No it's the fact that the tories are xxxs
I would hope you would understand the difference between costs going up and increasing spend and the lovely Tories deciding to increase spending on mental health or social services because they know they have stripped everything to the bone and if they don't invest they will be run out of town
One is inevitable , costs increase , the other is down to priority or in the case of the Tories, trying to save their arses ....or in your case , your arse
But I was wrong you are a tory and don't understand such basic societal ideas
I really should stop wasting my time , even if you get slabbed at the next election you will still be on here talking to a few daft souls stupid to put up with your PR work for the local conservative association
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I am sorry but if you think I spend my time having cosy chats with conservative voters then you better think again
As far as I am concerned chummy conversations with people who vote for welfare cuts , screwing the nurses and doctors and privatising everything is best left to people who have the inclination to do it
If I know someone is a tory then I really don't have much time for them and I certainly wouldn't be meeting them for coffee and a chat
I would have very little in common with them and that's the way it is as far as I am concerned
Are you sure you only act like an imbecile when in the presence of Tories. How do you explain the rest of your innate ramblings then ?
I know people who vote for all sorts of political partys , I couldn't care less how they vote. Maybe you should try it some day - you may even start to like yourself.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
No it's the fact that the tories are xxxs
I would hope you would understand the difference between costs going up and increasing spend and the lovely Tories deciding to increase spending on mental health or social services because they know they have stripped everything to the bone and if they don't invest they will be run out of town
One is inevitable , costs increase , the other is down to priority or in the case of the Tories, trying to save their arses ....or in your case , your arse
But I was wrong you are a tory and don't understand such basic societal ideas
I really should stop wasting my time , even if you get slabbed at the next election you will still be on here talking to a few daft souls stupid to put up with your PR work for the local conservative association
Such a bigot! I bet you go into hospitals and demand to know a doctor's voting record before he operates on you!
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Are you sure you only act like an imbecile when in the presence of Tories. How do you explain the rest of your innate ramblings then ?
I know people who vote for all sorts of political partys , I couldn't care less how they vote. Maybe you should try it some day - you may even start to like yourself.
Well you say that you couldn't care less about what party people vote for but that's nonsense and you are clearly lying
Some people are not interested in politics and that's fine, I know people like that
But you and the Tories on here spend plenty of time having a go at people of a left of centre view so you might think you can kid some people but you certainly don't fool me
I can't think of anything worse than sitting in a pub or cafe talking about the shocking state of public services with a tory voter who has helped bring it all about
This may be a difficult concept for you and maybe we could all go and have a jolly good game of rugger and a few beers but I am not interested
Sorry but that's the way it is
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Such a bigot! I bet you go into hospitals and demand to know a doctor's voting record before he operates on you!
I know that the vast vast majority of doctors and nurses don't vote Tory so I am happy to take my chances thanks
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heathblue
It's O. K TOBW, you don't have to pretend, early retirement and your top up state pension is safe, life's good isn't it?. On my way to work to pay in some more contributions towards your early retirement I'm not bitter, happy to help
Perhaps if you’d have got/get yourself a better job, save/saved more and didn't/don’t frit away your money, you could retire early as well.
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Two protesters were “reasonable” in calling Iain Duncan Smith “Tory scum” outside the Conservative party conference, the high court has ruled, in a rejection of an attempt to overturn their acquittal.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...le-court-rules
Now let's all carry on behaving reasonably lads and lasses. :thumbup: :hehe:
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Re: Why is it with the Tories we have
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Two protesters were “reasonable” in calling Iain Duncan Smith “Tory scum” outside the Conservative party conference, the high court has ruled, in a rejection of an attempt to overturn their acquittal.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...le-court-rules
Now let's all carry on behaving reasonably lads and lasses. :thumbup: :hehe:
Oh would be ridiculous if that was illegal. Everyone has a right to behave like a child sometimes!