Why is it with the Tories we have

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

Because they aren't very good at adapting to different situations, conservatism is basically the application of low risk policies that have always just about worked. They don't take into account extraordinary circumstances so for example, when debt was super cheap, they weren't borrowing to build, they were cutting and celebrating those cuts as if they were winning.

The main problem is however that the UK is in terminal decline, hastened by brexit and we all have very little to look forward to.

People seem so numb to the fact that real terms incomes for middle earners have reduced so drastically in 10 years that it is pretty much unprecedented. Rising prices, frozen tax bands and below inflation pay rises eventually mean you can't afford a loaf of bread with your monthly take home, at some point this has to reverse otherwise the future is inevitable.

Oh and house prices, it's a perfect storm of shit.

[Heathblue]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

And that ladies and gentleman is what is known as playing the man, rather than the ball.

Yup acknowledged, been the victim myself on occasions so I thought I'd join the party. Apologies if any offence taken I was being mischievous,

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

Is this true though?

I'm sure there's an interesting debate to be had, but it's unlikely when the starting point is the scenario outlined.

Agreed, but I don't think your starting point of 'everything is good' is productive either

Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain?

At a macro level possible not, at an individual level yes. Another decade of below inflation pay rises, frozen tax bands, rampant increase in COL and we have more people who are left vulnerable and unable to withstand even the slightest economic shock.

Is Tory Britain worse than Social Democrat Germany or Socialist Party Spain or Portugal, or centrist France?

Worse for who? For median and low earners, yes it is likely to be.

https://www.ft.com/content/85971473-...3-efcad0829044

Do we actually have austerity now?

We just canned our largest infrastructure project in decades replacing it with hot air, are cutting benefits during the winter of a cost of living crisis and freezing tax bands for the 28 millionth year in a row. I will let you decide.

Did Labour oppose austerity a decade ago?

No, they recognised they were losing that argument and played politics. Austerity is likely to be our biggest mistake, even in the context of Brexit. We had a stagnant economy while other countries were taking advantage of favourable conditions and the tories managed to trick people into thinking they were doing well

Is life at the bottom really harder now than 12, 15 years ago?

Yes definitely

If so, are these all the result of the UK govt or are other factors at play?

Both

Where we remove the Tories from many policies such as in Wales, do there problems get much better?

Wales is an almost unprecedented basket case and it shows how ****ed the UK is that tories use it as a benchmark, the answer above applies to Wales as well.

.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

Why not answer some of the points ?
As well as compare to how we are doing in terms of cancer wait times, education results, 'road building', infrastructure, Senedd budget cuts - that sort of thing..

I am not interesting in political debate with tory boys

You lot are weasels with more faces that a town hall clock

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

It’s difficult not to insult Tories. Evil is evil.

I can't be having anything to do with these ferrets

Fancy sitting in a cafe having a cuppa with someone who is going to vote for cuts to welfare and social services .....

It's like sleeping with the enemy

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

Because Tories and the people that vote for them only care about themselves.

Tories don't give a toss about the crumbling schools system , welfare , social services

Unless of course it affects their family directly then they are out there with the placards marching up and down the street

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

My question is were such draconian austerity measures required and what would have happened if they weren’t implemented?

It seems as though they were never reversed and as a result there have been catastrophic consequences for law and order in society as well as council services.

The lack of police on the streets as well as the rise in tents on city centre streets tell me things haven’t gone well.

[JamesWales]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

I can't be having anything to do with these ferrets

Fancy sitting in a cafe having a cuppa with someone who is going to vote for cuts to welfare and social services .....

It's like sleeping with the enemy

You realise the UK is spending more on welfare than ever before, right?

[JamesWales]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

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Interesting and cheers for answering. I don't disagree with all of that at all.

For clarity, my starting point isn't that 'everything is good' at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I would probably be as critical of our society and economy as anyone. My point is that those with the starting point that it's all the govts fault and a change fixes that are, in my opinion, incorrect. It would likely change nothing.

Elsewhere you said that Britain is in terminal decline. What evidence is there of that, or that it's particularly different to other countries? Because that's another of my broad points - the issues we experience are broadly speaking felt everywhere else. And that suggests the cause and the solutions lie elsewhere too.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

Interesting and cheers for answering. I don't disagree with all of that at all.

For clarity, my starting point isn't that 'everything is good' at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I would probably be as critical of our society and economy as anyone. My point is that those with the starting point that it's all the govts fault and a change fixes that are, in my opinion, incorrect. It would likely change nothing.

Elsewhere you said that Britain is in terminal decline. What evidence is there of that, or that it's particularly different to other countries? Because that's another of my broad points - the issues we experience are broadly speaking felt everywhere else. And that suggests the cause and the solutions lie elsewhere too.

It's more of a nod to the fact that whilst all our problems aren't caused by 2008, austerity, brexit, COVID, they were petrol on the fire, but the trend was established before then.

We do seem to have made more bad decisions than most countries and the UK is a definite outlier in its hostility towards working people over the past two decades. Disposable income in the middle and lower bands does tend to be higher in other comparable countries but broadly speaking everybody is facing the same issues.

When we have discussed this before I always get the impression you think I'm doom mongering and that the true picture is quite rosey. Triple lock is a great example of why I am so negative about the UK. Both major parties know that triple lock is unsustainable in even the medium term but have no plan for saying 'job done' and phasing it into something that makes more sense now.

[pipster]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

I can't be having anything to do with these ferrets

Fancy sitting in a cafe having a cuppa with someone who is going to vote for cuts to welfare and social services .....

It's like sleeping with the enemy

Jesus H Christ - you are such an imbecile 99% of the time

[jon1959]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

'Is post covid Tory Britain worse than post financial crisis Labour Britain?'

To add to Eric's points above, the state has been so hollowed out between 2010 and 2019 (national government as well as local - see the criminal justice system crisis as one example) that there is little collective resilience to provide a net behind individuals and families who have seen wages fall and costs rise over that period. We have a poorer (for most) and weaker country than pre financial crisis. Some of the causes are beyond the control of any government, but the Cult of Austerity was home grown.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

You realise the UK is spending more on welfare than ever before, right?

That's because of covid and the state of the economy

It's not because you Tories are generous people

This oh yeah we are spending more now than ever doesn't mean anything other than more people are in need , there is more poverty and the cost to the state has increased

It doesn't mean the conservatives are suddenly paying out loads on money to people on the dole

The NHS is costing us more money as the cost of cleaning products , replacement beds , uniforms , computers and everything else is going up

It's not down to the kindness and generosity of the Tories

Jesus wept

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

Jesus H Christ - you are such an imbecile 99% of the time

I am sorry but if you think I spend my time having cosy chats with conservative voters then you better think again

As far as I am concerned chummy conversations with people who vote for welfare cuts , screwing the nurses and doctors and privatising everything is best left to people who have the inclination to do it

If I know someone is a tory then I really don't have much time for them and I certainly wouldn't be meeting them for coffee and a chat

I would have very little in common with them and that's the way it is as far as I am concerned

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Why is it with the Tories we have

My question is were such draconian austerity measures required and what would have happened if they weren’t implemented?

It seems as though they were never reversed and as a result there have been catastrophic consequences for law and order in society as well as council services.

The lack of police on the streets as well as the rise in tents on city centre streets tell me things haven’t gone well.

The Tories used the aftermath of a financial crisis to push the strangulation of public services

It was ideological

I think they enjoy it