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Nor do I.
This maybe the first step in us leaving the football league.
In fairness to Tan he did say (according to dalman so fair size pinch of salt needed) he still wants to take us to the premier league - maybe he doesn't realise the difference between the English and Welsh premier leagues 🤔Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
From a Welsh fan's perspective, I think it's a good idea and I understand it completely. I agree with Mooney's argument that Welsh football is in a unique position, and fair play to the FAW for thinking outside the box in trying to proactively generate new revenue streams.
From a Cardiff fan's perspective, I'm not 100%. But that's more because of the fixture congestion issues it would create more than anything. If we got to the group stages, we'd be looking at an additional 15-20 games per season, with a lot of those played during July/August. Combined with our existing league and cup commitments, that's potentially a minimum of 66 games in a season. Dalman's justification of "oh, well Millwall and Wigan did it" is a little flimsy and without a big squad I could see that significantly impacting our league performance.
That said, I don't think it's an existential threat to our EFL position. The four clubs have obviously looked at it from a legal perspective, and Dalman mentioned in his statement the other day that there is no legal mechanism to remove us. I also think the point about us foregoing profit derived from playing in Europe will appease the other English clubs, as that would likely be their biggest contention.
That does though raise the question what exactly is in it for us, and I think that's the crux of it. It would be great to have European football and the trips/memories that would entail (especially for "younger" fans like me that have never experienced it). It would also be nice to have yearly competitive fixtures against other Welsh clubs. It might also be a great opportunity for our younger players to get more minutes and develop.
But I simply don't see how we'd be able to balance everything.
My thoughts exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks
This paragraph is confusing:
"Cardiff City, Newport County, Swansea City and Wrexham have agreed to exclude any profit derived by representing Wales in UEFA competitions for financial regulations in the English Football League or the English Premier League."
So are we seriously saying that the four league clubs are prepared to give up the possibility of qualifying for Europe via the Premier League, the FA Cup or the League Cup, and the obvious financial rewards that would come with such a qualification, in order to play in some tinpot Welsh competition that they cannot profit from?
This idea sounds worse every time I read about it.
Its a bit of a curates egg this one. While Im just about old enough to have gone to a city European game and would love to see us back there, do we really want to forgoe the possibility of ever playing in the Champions League or Europa League (as ridiculous as that sounds now)?
Also as some have pointed out above, the fixture congestion if we did get into the group stage would be horrific in a 46 game Championship season. If we then resorted to playing the reserves in Europe then we'd have effectively given up the top two European competitions for nothing.
I dont really buy into the idea that its the thin end of the wedge as far as joining the Cymru Premier is concerned. No one in their right mind is going to be up for that and Im sure all the legalities have been explored. If we wouldnt do it when the Welsh clubs were on their collective arses in 1992, why would we now? Also T=there are undeniable benefits for Welsh football, as Noel Mooney has eloquently expressed, but I think on balance for me its a no.
We have a big squad, full of youth that would jump at the chance to play a competitive fixtureQuote:
Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead
That paragraph could definitely do with a full article on how that works. We talking competition profits or everything down to gate receipts.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
My thoughts exactly. We're doing this just for the good of Welsh football? I doubt it. Something doesn't add up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
I really hope this gets blocked by the FA as the other EFL clubs have asked them to.
To put things in perspective, I copied a paragraph from Wikipedia. It is regarding the first qualifying round of the Nathaniel Cup…
Twenty-eight clubs will enter in Round 1, which will be made up of any club without floodlights; the two wildcard entries…
I maybe wrong, but I believe both the City and Swansea Town are the wildcard entries, that go into the first round of qualifying, alongside the teams without floodlights.
Hats off to the people charged with running our football Club… into the ground!
I don't feel comfortable with it either. Something about it feels very off.
I object to all this on several grounds.
First and foremost I think it's really unambitious. Twice in the 15 years or so we have been one game off Europe. We are a large city and being in the premier league and qualifying that way has to be the ambition. What's the point if we can't do that? If we sacrifice that for the Conference League then frankly we may as well be in the Welsh league.
There's practicalities too. How many games is the league cup? 5? How many in the conference league? Including qualifying then it's at least 8. Plus the FA Cup and League cup. Club could be ****ed, and for what? A weekend on the piss in Liege and Sofia?
We would also become the most disliked teams in the league and understandably so. Mooney will be happy, I don't think we should be. Cardiff City >Welsh football every day of the week for me.
We should be careful what we wish for here. I think I would genuinely favour joining the Welsh leagues over these muddied waters.
I'm not sure how you have reached that conclusion from that paragraph. It is effectively saying we won't profit from the prize money as all prize money will be split between the Welsh clubs isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
If anything I would suspect we would run at a loss from this if we said for arguments sake that we reached the group stage once every 5 years
That's basically what I was saying - the paragraph suggests there would be no profit for any of the EFL clubs if they were to play in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub
What did you think I said?
Would anyone be against joining the Welsh League by the way?
The way football is going, the shambles that is the disparity between the PL and Championship at the moment, never mind the Top 6 and the rest of the PL. We were one game from Europe twice but football has come a very long way since then.
Only 2 teams outside of the top 6 have won the FA Cup since 2008. The League Cup has been dominated by the big 6 in recent seasons. I look at Scotland's league and am often quite jealous, but ironically ours would be more competitive.
Wrexham, Newport, Swansea, Cardiff going for the title each season, teams towards the bottom gradually becoming competetive over a number of years. The first few years would obviously be poor but it would be great once those 4 teams were going for the title each season.
Won't ever happen of course but I think if a phoenix Cardiff City ever happened and joined the Welsh League I'd make the switch
Yes. It's a woeful idea in every respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub
My apologies I misreadQuote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
I wouldn't as I'm not from Cardiff. If Caerphilly were in the Welsh league I would support them. Or even PenyBontQuote:
Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub
I guess it's how you view football as you get older. When I was 20 years younger I'd have hated the idea but as I've got older I quite like the idea. What is our aim in the English system? We have been in the Championship for all but 2 of the last 22 seasons. The gap is getting even bigger now so for me I just view it as more of the same over the next 10-15 years as football eats itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Appreciate this is an unpopular opinion and will never happen, just curious if anyone feels the same way and would love a fresh start in a league not yet corrupted by greedy billionaires (with blood on their hands in a lot of cases)
That would be good for the league :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks
I would have no interest in Cardiff city in the Welsh league.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub
This idea doesn’t make a lot of sense. Have UEFA actually changed their stance on this then? The Europeanconference league isn’t the most attractive of competitions either, would prefer if we took the FA cup and league cup more seriously.
I Sumer for most games we would still play our under 21s which is what we were doing anyway
I'm the polar opposite. The older I get, the more I'd like to see Cardiff City compete properly in the Premier League. And I'm not talking about going up and coming straight back down again. I'm talking about going up, staying up and competing, as the likes of Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton and Fulham have managed to do. If they can do it, why can't we?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub
Those clubs currently sit above Manchester United, Spurs and Everton in the top flight. To me, that's a rather more attractive proposition than playing in a league with Haverfordwest, Bala Town and Briton Ferry.
The gap is getting bigger than ever though.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
The 3 promoted teams the season before last went straight back down with a whimper last season, and 2 of the 3 are now top 3 again. The same will happen to them if they go up. The 3 promoted teams last season are currently in the bottom 3. They are well run clubs as well.
The likes of Brighton, Bournemouth etc have very wealthy owners and got lucky with the timing. They can outbid teams in Serie A and La Liga these days, their financial footing means we have no chance if we did ever get promoted. To me we are a million miles away from being a club run well enough to get promoted never mind bridging that financial gap and establishing ourselves.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
It may be, but we are talking extremely small sample sizes. Things change over the longer term. Still a lot of questions over how finances will play out.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub
Even if the gap was a few divisions that's surely more interesting than watching us play mostly village teams.
The championship by international standings is a bloody good league full of historic clubs. Even in the unlikely event that's forever our ceiling, it's a lot higher than effectively demoting the club several levels to be a big fish in a tiny pond.
Perhaps, but that doesn't mean to say we as a club have to abandon all ambition.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub
Besides which, the doomsday 'gap is getting too big, Premier League is becoming a closed shop' predictions have been flying around for decades. Indeed, at the time of the rebrand, two directors told me that if City didn't take Vincent Tan's money and get promoted to the Premier League in either 2013/14 or 2013/14, we never would because rule changes to parachute payments meant the opportunity to compete would be gone.
But even if the Premier League did become a closed shop (and I don't believe it will), I'd much rather see City compete in the EFL than any Welsh league.
I have re-read that paragraph a dozen times and I still don't know what it means. Confusing is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
"Exclude any profit.... for financial regulations...."
Like you and others I can guess what it means, and I don't like it, but as written it does not make sense.
I agree, which is why I asked a question as opposed to make a statement regarding it. The paragraph makes no real sense. And if it really does mean what it seems to suggest, then this whole idea makes absolutely zero sense for the four EFL clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Some of our fan base are moaning that progression in the cup is preventing them watching Hull City on a Saturday. We’ve no chance of getting through to Europe through the cups. No doubt it we got in via the Welsh route, they would be calling for the kids v Real Madrid as we had Barnsley on the weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead
I'd rather stay in championship than play in the Premier league .
The Welsh isn't me.
Read earlier that the English FA's main sticking point was they deemed it unfair that Welsh clubs could be at a financial advantage, but the FAW are pretty satisfied that that will be negated by the fact any prize money would go to the Welsh system, not the clubs. Also linked in with the co-operation between the FAs with Euro 28
I think its a good idea, it would be a maximum of 4 games I think? (Welsh Prem teams + us 4 in the competition) and gives us a great shot at playing European football. Preston or Prague? Tough one...
We do have a chance of qualifying if we win a cup and we've been in two finals since 2008. Bolton, Fulham, Leicester, Ipswich, Norwich and the like have all tasted European football, and deserved it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blue
I just don't see the point in this. It cheapens it massively and it feels a lot like cheating. What's the point in qualifying for Europe in this way?
And if it means we can't qualify via the leagues and cups what are we doing it for? To become a bigger club and get promoted and then be a second class citizen in the top flight?
It's a mess
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks
Trethomas are currently top of the Cymru South. Great chance for a valleys Prem team.
Let's imagine City play in the latest version of the FAW Premier Cup, win it and qualify for the mighty Europa Conference League.Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
How many extra games would that involve? And if the club isn't going to be allowed to profit from such a scenario, what would be the actual point?
Well, playing European football. I see it as a positive, if you don't then we just won't be able to agree and that's fineQuote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
The club would profit, gate receipts, an enhanced profile, become more attractive for players and any money that goes into grassroots football in Wales will have a knock on benefit for us
In terms of games it would be 4 qualifying ties all in pre season and an additional 6 league phase games before any knockouts. I'd quite like to watch us play in those
The paragraph I've quoted earlier in the thread suggests the club would not be able to profit from the gate receipts, but it's not entirely clear, so who knows?Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
I note that TNS's many European games this season included Europa Conference League clashes with Astana, Shamrock Rovers, Djurgaardens and NK Celje. I wonder what sort of crowds City would get for games against teams like those?
You might have a point if the club and fan base had not all but given up on cup competitions. 2008 and 2012 were wonderful times but that now seems like 3 centuries ago as regards our attitude to doing well in them.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Our approach to cup competitions will be the subject of tomorrow's moan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blue
For today I am sticking with the Welsh League Cup idea!