Sky TV is killing the game for the majority of clubs.

The option of watching mid-week and early Saturday fixtures being televised live on Sky has clearly led to a drop in attendances for most EFL clubs.

With the exception of Leeds and a few others chasing promotion the sad backdrop of so many empty seats in the majority of stadiums is only going to increase.

The revenue lost through non-ST holders opting for an armchair rather than paying for a ticket, travelling to the ground, buying refreshments etc is not going to be matched by TV revenues shared by clubs.

Official attendances are inflated due to many season ticket holders choosing not to turn up, so an analysis of actual attendances is impossible.

Regardless of entertainment 'value' in Cardiff's case, would a few extra thousand supporters have had a more positive effect on results?

The early kick-offs on a weekend will prevent many from choosing to attend due to work or other family commitments such as youth football.

Unsure whether Cardiff or any club in the championship have had the majority of their home fixtures kicking off on a Saturday at 3pm ... although I could be wrong.

What about the cost of living making everybody skint?

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Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird

The option of watching mid-week and early Saturday fixtures being televised live on Sky has clearly led to a drop in attendances for most EFL clubs.

With the exception of Leeds and a few others chasing promotion the sad backdrop of so many empty seats in the majority of stadiums is only going to increase.

The revenue lost through non-ST holders opting for an armchair rather than paying for a ticket, travelling to the ground, buying refreshments etc is not going to be matched by TV revenues shared by clubs.

Official attendances are inflated due to many season ticket holders choosing not to turn up, so an analysis of actual attendances is impossible.

Regardless of entertainment 'value' in Cardiff's case, would a few extra thousand supporters have had a more positive effect on results?

The early kick-offs on a weekend will prevent many from choosing to attend due to work or other family commitments such as youth football.

Unsure whether Cardiff or any club in the championship have had the majority of their home fixtures kicking off on a Saturday at 3pm ... although I could be wrong.

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Strictly Come Dancing has an audience of millions. The couple of hundred in the studio are there just for effect. That's how the TV companies view those who actually watch matches in person..

Next season will probably see attendances affected by this more than this season. There's probably loads of season tickets holders cheesed off at the number of games moved.

The sadest thing Tuesday night was how sparse the family stand was as that represents the future.

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Originally Posted by PontBlue

Next season will probably see attendances affected by this more than this season. There's probably loads of season tickets holders cheesed off at the number of games moved.

The sadest thing Tuesday night was how sparse the family stand was as that represents the future.

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:frown:

There's been four games played at home on a Saturday at 3 o' clock.

Should've been five but the Watford game was postponed.

I've said it before but for me personally, 12:30s don't work and neither do Sunday games.

I personally struggle to afford to go to as many games as I used to.

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Originally Posted by PontBlue

The sadest thing Tuesday night was how sparse the family stand was as that represents the future.

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I did a rough count & reckon there was around 150 in there in total.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

What about the cost of living making everybody skint?

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Yes, this will have its effect. However the excess of Sky coverage and kick-off time change will put off fans from attending regardless of the cost of living crisis.

I don't think clubs have a choice about TV schedules.

2/3rds of last season’s Championship teams have lower attendances this year.

On average attendances are down by over 1000 in the division.

I haven't had a season ticket since covid and now pick and choose a few games a season. Personal circumstances are the main reason, but the lack of regular Saturday 3pm games is also a big reason. There's too much messing about with the weekend fixtures to incentivise me to get another season ticket any time soon. Being able to watch the midweek matches probably affects others more than me, but yes, compared to previous seasons, the sparsely populated family stand should concern the club.

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Originally Posted by Canton Kev

2/3rds of last season’s Championship teams have lower attendances this year.

On average attendances are down by over 1000 in the division.

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This is interesting, I hadn’t heard this before.

Soon, as season ticket sales dwindle, the attendances being announced for matches will get far closer to the actual number of people in the stadiums.

Expect more drops in those figures, and more clubs starting to panic.

I’m a lunatic case, I go to every away game, if my health is ok, yet I can’t remember the last home game I went to !!!!!

It’s mostly because I don’t enjoy the pre-match at home games as much as the camaraderie on the coach at away games !!!

Daft init ?

And I’ve got 2 season tickets, used to be 9 across the family !

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Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird

The revenue lost through non-ST holders opting for an armchair rather than paying for a ticket, travelling to the ground, buying refreshments etc is not going to be matched by TV revenues shared by clubs.

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Are you sure about this? If so, where did you obtain the figures?

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Originally Posted by PontBlue

Next season will probably see attendances affected by this more than this season. There's probably loads of season tickets holders cheesed off at the number of games moved.

The sadest thing Tuesday night was how sparse the family stand was as that represents the future.

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Night games are always going to be less full in the family stand - If I take my kids to a game it's usually gone 11 by the time I get home - too late for a school night.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Are you sure about this? If so, where did you obtain the figures?

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that's definitely the case in the premier league, I think its also true for the championship also from memory - I'll have a look at the accounts later if I remember and that should clear it up.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

that's definitely the case in the premier league, I think its also true for the championship also from memory - I'll have a look at the accounts later if I remember and that should clear it up.

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What's true?

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Originally Posted by Rjk

that's definitely the case in the premier league, I think its also true for the championship also from memory - I'll have a look at the accounts later if I remember and that should clear it up.

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ok my curiosity got the better of me -

in the season 23-24 - gate receipts + match day income came to about £6m

TV deals and other centralised sponsorships - £10.4m

Our own sponsorship deals - £6.5 million.

So if we were filling the ground every week it'd probably be getting close to the same impact as the TV deals (assuming we did so without slashing prices).

An extra £4-5 million in practice would probably mean one more dodgy signing though :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird

The option of watching mid-week and early Saturday fixtures being televised live on Sky has clearly led to a drop in attendances for most EFL clubs.

With the exception of Leeds and a few others chasing promotion the sad backdrop of so many empty seats in the majority of stadiums is only going to increase.

The revenue lost through non-ST holders opting for an armchair rather than paying for a ticket, travelling to the ground, buying refreshments etc is not going to be matched by TV revenues shared by clubs.

Official attendances are inflated due to many season ticket holders choosing not to turn up, so an analysis of actual attendances is impossible.

Regardless of entertainment 'value' in Cardiff's case, would a few extra thousand supporters have had a more positive effect on results?

The early kick-offs on a weekend will prevent many from choosing to attend due to work or other family commitments such as youth football.

Unsure whether Cardiff or any club in the championship have had the majority of their home fixtures kicking off on a Saturday at 3pm ... although I could be wrong.

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so where were all the empty seats for an early kick off against swansea over the seasons ?

I think people are right that next season will be the big test. I really don't think the number of 12.30 games help at all. It's not necessarily a pig of a time if you had to pop to the doctors or whatever, but football takes hours out of the day.

Putting it at 12.30 essentially takes the whole day out. You can't really go for brunch with family, or take the kids to youth football, or go food shopping in the morning etc and still go to the football in the afternoon. Depending on where you live you are perhaps out the house from 11 til 4. And you get a lesser atmosphere, less away fans and generally less entertainment for that too.

Something people need to bear in mind when considering this situation is that the clubs voted in favour of it unanimously:

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...hes-per-season

It's a bit like VAR in that respect. That Premier League clubs (which included City at the time) also voted in favour of that unanimously.

Having a shit team has a far bigger effect than ko times. Sky TV or no Sky TV.

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Originally Posted by Crisp White Lines

This is interesting, I hadn’t heard this before.

Soon, as season ticket sales dwindle, the attendances being announced for matches will get far closer to the actual number of people in the stadiums.

Expect more drops in those figures, and more clubs starting to panic.

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When you exclude teams affected by promotion or relegation the numbers are:

12/18 teams in the Championship, 11/17 teams in League One, 11/18 teams in League Two seeing decreased attendances.

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Originally Posted by Canton Kev

When you exclude teams affected by promotion or relegation the numbers are:

12/18 teams in the Championship, 11/17 teams in League One, 11/18 teams in League Two seeing decreased attendances.

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We've just been through an inflation crisis where most people have felt their personal finances significantly squeezed, so it isn't surprising that leisure events will suffer.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

We've just been through an inflation crisis where most people have felt their personal finances significantly squeezed, so it isn't surprising that leisure events will suffer.

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I notice people have been commenting about the low crowds at the Cheltenham race meetings this week

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Are you sure about this? If so, where did you obtain the figures?

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Trying to work out a figure per televised game is difficult but Sky will pay £935 million to show 1059 EFL matches over 4 seasons.

Doing a swift calculation of £935million divided by 1059 gives close to a £883,000 average per game ... which seems far too high.

Obviously the higher up the pyramid the more a team gets. Cardiff will get more per TV game than Newport for instance.

Many clubs have posted details the Sky TV deal:

https://www.millwallfc.co.uk/news/20...and-efl-deal-/

I thought teams in the Championship were getting in the region of £100,000 per game.

Perhaps this was the figure before the deal with Sky was done.

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Originally Posted by poc

so where were all the empty seats for an early kick off against swansea over the seasons ?

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I think that 'our' Cup finals will always attract a full house.

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Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird

I think that 'our' Cup finals will always attract a full house.

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Our recent games v the Jacks haven't sold out anyway

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Originally Posted by poc

so where were all the empty seats for an early kick off against swansea over the seasons ?

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According to the official attendance there were over 6000 empty seats for the last Jack game.

I'd imagine most the red seats were empty?

I posted about this at the start of the season. It felt like no one realised the impact this was going to have. Put it together with a cost of living crisis and the outcome inevitable, but another slippery slope where fans who slip away may never return. We are in big trouble

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Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub

I posted about this at the start of the season. It felt like no one realised the impact this was going to have. Put it together with a cost of living crisis and the outcome inevitable, but another slippery slope where fans who slip away may never return. We are in big trouble

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This is correct, fans that drift away find other things to do and may even wonder why the f*ck did they dedicate so much of their life to the City. It took an FA Cup Final appearance to hook a load of new fans, quite a lot stuck and attendances were healthy, new stadium, two promotions etc. Sadly can’t see any tempting scenarios on the horizon for the foreseeable.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

This is correct, fans that drift away find other things to do and may even wonder why the f*ck did they dedicate so much of their life to the City. It took an FA Cup Final appearance to hook a load of new fans, quite a lot stuck and attendances were healthy, new stadium, two promotions etc. Sadly can’t see any tempting scenarios on the horizon for the foreseeable.

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Don’t forget that attendances at the CCS occasionally dipped to lower levels than they are now in 2015, 2016 and 2017, particularly for some midweek games.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

This is correct, fans that drift away find other things to do and may even wonder why the f*ck did they dedicate so much of their life to the City. It took an FA Cup Final appearance to hook a load of new fans, quite a lot stuck and attendances were healthy, new stadium, two promotions etc. Sadly can’t see any tempting scenarios on the horizon for the foreseeable.

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Fans? You do mean customers ?

Fans were in days gone by when the football clubs had to keep the fans on board because they needed their ticket money.

Nowadays the money comes from Sky , Advertising , corporate customers . The fans are of course needed , without them making a racket the game would be a lot more boring . Covid games brought that home to the owners.

As a lot of Cardiff fans found out in the red days , those that left in protest, their seats were soon with filled with new customers when Cardiff made it to the premier league , most of whom left when Man U et al were no longer visiting .

When we are struggling , we are much loved important fans by the club .. That will change if the club once again joins the elite.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

According to the official attendance there were over 6000 empty seats for the last Jack game.

I'd imagine most the red seats were empty?

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All of the top tier was empty. Really bad look imo. The club should have opened them up

the club's complete lack of initiative when it comes to drumming up better attendances is piss poor, there are so many incentives that could be put in place to fill a half empty stadium week in week out, selling a seat at 50%, or even 30% of it's match day value is still more profitable than leaving it empty, plus a body in a seat could help toward the atmosphere thus incentivising the team to put some effort in.

everything about the club is sloppy, half-arsed and dare I say it a little arrogant in the way it views its customers.

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Originally Posted by Splott-light...

the club's complete lack of initiative when it comes to drumming up better attendances is piss poor, there are so many incentives that could be put in place to fill a half empty stadium week in week out, selling a seat at 50%, or even 30% of it's match day value is still more profitable than leaving it empty, plus a body in a seat could help toward the atmosphere thus incentivising the team to put some effort in.

everything about the club is sloppy, half-arsed and dare I say it a little arrogant in the way it views its customers.

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Wasn’t the quote along the lines of we may lose 20% of them, but they will be replaced
With the Red debacle?

I think we’ve always been customers, just misguided that we counted for something?

That notion was soon dispelled

The club is so far removed from reality imho or they just don’t care

Good luck selling ST’s for next season, because they’ll need good luck, or a major shake up in how they approach this

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Originally Posted by Splott-light...

the club's complete lack of initiative when it comes to drumming up better attendances is piss poor, there are so many incentives that could be put in place to fill a half empty stadium week in week out, selling a seat at 50%, or even 30% of it's match day value is still more profitable than leaving it empty, plus a body in a seat could help toward the atmosphere thus incentivising the team to put some effort in.

everything about the club is sloppy, half-arsed and dare I say it a little arrogant in the way it views its customers.

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yeah there are lots of things the club could be doing - it's always tricky offering cheap tickets though, as you might end up pissing off the season ticket holders who are so important.

I've always thought they should do a lot more with Cardiff's student population - it's massive. but many of them come from other cities and support other teams, even then im sure they could sell it as a thing to do while they're living here, see some championship football etc.
would probably need to run buses from the student areas to the ground etc

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Originally Posted by olderblue

Wasn’t the quote along the lines of we may lose 20% of them, but they will be replaced
With the Red debacle?

I think we’ve always been customers, just misguided that we counted for something?

That notion was soon dispelled

The club is so far removed from reality imho or they just don’t care

Good luck selling ST’s for next season, because they’ll need good luck, or a major shake up in how they approach this

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20% sounds about right Ian, straight from Tan's mouth too, imagine thinking it's 'good business' to tell your patron's that their custom is valued so little that they are replaceable, I mean, we all know business owners have these types of conversations every day behind closed doors but it takes extreme arrogance to put that out there in the media and believe it won't ever bite you in the arse.

now is that time.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

yeah there are lots of things the club could be doing - it's always tricky offering cheap tickets though, as you might end up pissing off the season ticket holders who are so important.

I've always thought they should do a lot more with Cardiff's student population - it's massive. but many of them come from other cities and support other teams, even then im sure they could sell it as a thing to do while they're living here, see some championship football etc.
would probably need to run buses from the student areas to the ground etc

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exactly this, there is also no reason why the family stand should be lacking numbers, offer an incentive (£20 family tickets etc) and they will come, none of the existing fanbase will have a problem with that on the run in to the end of season.

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Originally Posted by Splott-light...

exactly this, there is also no reason why the family stand should be lacking numbers, offer an incentive (£20 family tickets etc) and they will come, none of the existing fanbase will have a problem with that on the run in to the end of season.

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Loads get season tickets and just don't bother coming don't they. I get that to an extent and the prices are good, but the numbers seem to have dwindled to an alarming rate in the last year or two