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Thread: COVID - Something has to change

  1. #1

    COVID - Something has to change

    We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

    The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

    These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.

  2. #2

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

    The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

    These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.
    What metric would you say proves that 'Sweden had it right all along'?

  3. #3

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    if people were just more accountable for their actions. everyone says they do this and that but the basics are wash your hands and keep two meters apart and people just cant manage it.

  4. #4

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.
    Sweden being held up as the poster child for "Herd Immunity" by the right wing media with it's 'get back to work, plebs!" agenda really isn't all it's cracked up to be.

    Aside from the fact it's geographic and social make-up is radically different to the the UK to the point they're not comparable, you also have factors like lack of testing (they test in a week what the UK does in a day), they have the most deaths of the Scandinavian countries and Swedes are probably more likely to social distance than the "no mask" idiots and pissheads in the pubs over here.

  5. #5

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

    The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

    These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.
    I agree, local lockdowns are neither easy to understand not effective enough. As shown last time unfortunately it's only a national lockdown which will work properly.

  6. #6

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

    The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

    These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.
    Good post. As you say this cycle of lockdown/easing/lockdown is just kicking the can down the road. God help us when furlough ends this month as we could well have millions on the dole. If the vaccine doesn't work herd immumity is the only option to get rid of the virus. I realise this could overwhelm the NHS but if our economy collapses there wouldn't be any NHS anyway.......very very grim times

  7. #7

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    The lockdown / easing / lockdown cycle must be just designed to by us time till a vaccine comes along

  8. #8

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by celticknight View Post
    Sweden being held up as the poster child for "Herd Immunity" by the right wing media with it's 'get back to work, plebs!" agenda really isn't all it's cracked up to be.

    Aside from the fact it's geographic and social make-up is radically different to the the UK to the point they're not comparable, you also have factors like lack of testing (they test in a week what the UK does in a day), they have the most deaths of the Scandinavian countries and Swedes are probably more likely to social distance than the "no mask" idiots and pissheads in the pubs over here.
    Quite. Added to that, Sweden is twice the size of the UK with about 15% of its population. Its three biggest cities combined population is less than that of Manchester. It also has a better standard of living. With those advantages in mind, I'd say the herd immunity experiment has been a failure. To try it in the UK would be disastrous. If the UK goverment is worried about a new spike, the country should go back into full lockdown.

  9. #9

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    Quite. Added to that, Sweden is twice the size of the UK with about 15% of its population. Its three biggest cities combined population is less than that of Manchester. It also has a better standard of living. With those advantages in mind, I'd say the herd immunity experiment has been a failure. To try it in the UK would be disastrous. If the UK goverment is worried about a new spike, the country should go back into full lockdown.
    Absolutely. Sweden has been far from the free-for-all that it seems to have been portrayed over here.

  10. #10

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

    The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

    These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.
    Pip Schofield and now Chris Whitty.

    Who'd have thought we'd have so many famous fans.

  11. #11

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    They keep saying we are 5/6 weeks behind Spain, I see that cases are now going down there after peaking and deaths didn’t go up? They didn’t lock down did they?

  12. #12

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    They keep saying we are 5/6 weeks behind Spain, I see that cases are now going down there after peaking and deaths didn’t go up? They didn’t lock down did they?
    Where have you seen that?

    All news sources say that cases and deaths are still rising in Spain and Madrid is going into lockdown.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54211361

    https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/19/...ease-by-14-000

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...rus-cases.html

  13. #13

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    These local lockdown of areas/counties will never work lets be honest. It just makes people think if they live outside the lockdown restricted area they are ok and can continue as normal. Plus its impossible to stop people travelling outside a particular county when most people don't even no where one county starts or ends, and some streets are divided by counties..........complete madness, everyone must all live with the same rules and restrictions otherwise it is a complete waste of time.

  14. #14

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorcus View Post
    I agree, local lockdowns are neither easy to understand not effective enough. As shown last time unfortunately it's only a national lockdown which will work properly.
    they would be a lot more effective if we had a workable test and trace capability by now

  15. #15

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    What Iím hearing is that thereís not going to be a vaccine anytime soon, but they now have the medication to ease the death rate.

  16. #16

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

    The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

    These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.
    The govt. panicked, along with the rest. Don't go to work - we'll pay you instead, I mean , when you think of that it's totally and utterly crazy, the sort of thing a tinpot Central American state would do, not the 6th largest economy in the world.
    We all remember seeing little Spanish children going into their local park to play after leaving their houses/flats for the 1st time in 4 months - think late July/early August. Spain enforced a prison-like lockdown, yet it didn't do much good - look at them now.
    I'm approaching my 68th yr. I don't confess to any serious medical qualifications, but I've done business with - and met - hundreds and hundreds of people from all walks of life, and I can tell when people are 'winging it'. And believe me, these scientist are definitely winging it - they haven't go a clue..

  17. #17

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Where have you seen that?

    All news sources say that cases and deaths are still rising in Spain and Madrid is going into lockdown.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54211361

    https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/19/...ease-by-14-000

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...rus-cases.html
    The graph on this one that says we are 6 weeks behind spain......

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...d-science.html

    Donít take anything I read anywhere as gospel but apparently itís written by oxford scientists so no reason not to believe them....

  18. #18

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by Its been emotional View Post
    These local lockdown of areas/counties will never work lets be honest. It just makes people think if they live outside the lockdown restricted area they are ok and can continue as normal. Plus its impossible to stop people travelling outside a particular county when most people don't even no where one county starts or ends, and some streets are divided by counties..........complete madness, everyone must all live with the same rules and restrictions otherwise it is a complete waste of time.

    Yeah, Gladys in ponty works in a shop in Cardiff, so she’s coming in everyday and wandering about in her lunch break. I guess they are just stopping people coming out to drink and eat really....they just can’t face shutting pubs can they?

  19. #19

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    The govt. panicked, along with the rest. Don't go to work - we'll pay you instead, I mean , when you think of that it's totally and utterly crazy, the sort of thing a tinpot Central American state would do, not the 6th largest economy in the world.
    We all remember seeing little Spanish children going into their local park to play after leaving their houses/flats for the 1st time in 4 months - think late July/early August. Spain enforced a prison-like lockdown, yet it didn't do much good - look at them now.
    I'm approaching my 68th yr. I don't confess to any serious medical qualifications, but I've done business with - and met - hundreds and hundreds of people from all walks of life, and I can tell when people are 'winging it'. And believe me, these scientist are definitely winging it - they haven't go a clue..

    Italy had a more severe lockdown, anyone know what’s going on there? Lots of co living between families too

  20. #20

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

    The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

    These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.
    It's hard to not distance in Sweden, it's almost twice as big as the UK, with a population of 10Million, and Stockholm has a population of 976,000. The Uk has a population 66Million and London has a population of 9Million, it's daft to try and compare.

  21. #21

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo View Post
    if people were just more accountable for their actions. everyone says they do this and that but the basics are wash your hands and keep two meters apart and people just cant manage it.
    We have a lot of thicko's mate, I don't know whats happened over the last twenty years but the number of really thick people seems to have multiplied quicker than covid 19?

  22. #22

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    The graph on this one that says we are 6 weeks behind spain......

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...d-science.html

    Don’t take anything I read anywhere as gospel but apparently it’s written by oxford scientists so no reason not to believe them....
    No, mate... Where did you read that the "cases are going down there [Spain] and deaths didn't go up"? I'm not arguing that we may be "6 weeks behind" them, just that the cases are going down in Spain as all evidence points to the contrary.

  23. #23

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBlue View Post
    Quite. Added to that, Sweden is twice the size of the UK with about 15% of its population. Its three biggest cities combined population is less than that of Manchester. It also has a better standard of living. With those advantages in mind, I'd say the herd immunity experiment has been a failure. To try it in the UK would be disastrous. If the UK goverment is worried about a new spike, the country should go back into full lockdown.
    I didn't read this post before replying, but spot on!

  24. #24

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Funny how the commentators in the media who are holding up Sweden a bastion of freedom were calling it a muslim infested shithole a year ago.

    While continuous lockdowns are not the way to go imo, using Sweden as evidence while cherry picking data is as disingenuous as it comes.

    By the same metric we could be saying New Zealand has been using harsh lockdowns and are virtully covid free so why don't we do that?

  25. #25

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Where's Total_ITK? I'm pretty sure he was posting about how he was witnessing Swedes not socially distancing during our lockdown. All we are getting in the UK is the media's spin on what's happening there (from both sides of the argument)- at least get an opinion from the horses mouth on this.

  26. #26

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by goats View Post
    They keep saying we are 5/6 weeks behind Spain, I see that cases are now going down there after peaking and deaths didnít go up? They didnít lock down did they?
    They had full lockdown again didn't they?

  27. #27

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Where's Total_ITK? I'm pretty sure he was posting about how he was witnessing Swedes not socially distancing during our lockdown. All we are getting in the UK is the media's spin on what's happening there (from both sides of the argument)- at least get an opinion from the horses mouth on this.
    It will be illuminating to see whether the approach in Sweden reaps a longer benefit but as things stand in Scandanavia for every Dane, Finn and Norwegian that has died of or with coronavirus, 5, 9 and 12 Swedes died respectively.

  28. #28

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    No, mate... Where did you read that the "cases are going down there [Spain] and deaths didn't go up"? I'm not arguing that we may be "6 weeks behind" them, just that the cases are going down in Spain as all evidence points to the contrary.
    Here's a link which shows that, although I would have thought scientists might well say they needed more evidence before declaring Spain was over the worst of this late summer/autumn outbreak, the number of daily new cases has dropped markedly in the last week to ten days.

    It also shows that while new cases did climb dramatically for a while, they did not do so to anywhere near the extent talked about at the briefing yesterday - they plateaued at around 10,000 for three weeks before the dip started. As for deaths, they rose well above what had been the norm for a few months, but they.ve not reached anything like spring levels yet.

    https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/spain/

  29. #29

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by tforturton View Post
    We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

    The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

    These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.
    Putting aside everything that the Government should be doing.

    Every individual, irrespective of age, demographic and ethnicity needs to treat this more seriously and accept that they carry a responsibility to fight it.
    Nobody is immune, everybody could be a spreader.
    With the right attitude wearing a mask, maintaining a distance are not difficult to do. Observing and implementing rules on gatherings, travel may be upsetting for some but not as much as burying somebody.
    I’m not advocating a total lockdown, but individual responsibility and therein lies the problem. There are just too many people who do not think it applies to them or feel that they can interpret it differently.
    It’s not just the “young” who can be and have acted irresponsibly.

    We all want to get back to attending City matches. It’s not going to happen soon nor should it or any other crowd event. It’s time to stop bleating about loss of privilege and to work to rebuild it. “We are in this together”

  30. #30

    Re: COVID - Something has to change

    Quote Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish View Post
    The govt. panicked, along with the rest. Don't go to work - we'll pay you instead, I mean , when you think of that it's totally and utterly crazy, the sort of thing a tinpot Central American state would do, not the 6th largest economy in the world.
    We all remember seeing little Spanish children going into their local park to play after leaving their houses/flats for the 1st time in 4 months - think late July/early August. Spain enforced a prison-like lockdown, yet it didn't do much good - look at them now.
    I'm approaching my 68th yr. I don't confess to any serious medical qualifications, but I've done business with - and met - hundreds and hundreds of people from all walks of life, and I can tell when people are 'winging it'. And believe me, these scientist are definitely winging it - they haven't go a clue..
    I remember you taking a shot at Pearcey on reliance on scientific opinion

    There's as much space as you need below to list your qualifications and expertise in these matters, and then give us your detailed explanation why you disagree with the most qualified people in this Country.

    Then again you could just f*ck off and let the grown ups get on with it..
    What happened to change your mind?

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