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Thread: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

  1. #1

    Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    I would expect to be searched at a venue, event like that. Any decent person wouldn't have objected. Guess we'll never know what might have been, but I find this very sad.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-54695580
    Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'
    Manchester security.jpg
    A security guard had a "bad feeling" about suicide bomber Salman Abedi but did not approach him for fear of being branded a racist, an inquiry has heard.

    Kyle Lawler, who was 18 at the time of the Manchester Arena attack, was standing 10 or 15ft away from Abedi.

    He later told police he was conflicted because he thought something was wrong but could not put his finger on it.

    About five minutes later, at 22:31 BST on 22 May 2017, Abedi detonated a bomb packed with 3,000 nuts and bolts.

    Abedi, 22, dressed all in black and carrying a large rucksack, had been reported to security by a member of the public at 22:15.

    Around eight minutes before the bombing, Showsec steward Mohammed Ali Agha alerted Mr Lawler to the report and both began observing Abedi.

    In his statement prepared for the inquiry, Mr Lawler said: "I just had a bad feeling about him but did not have anything to justify that."

    The witness added that Abedi was "fidgety and sweating".

  2. #2

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    This guy will probably be in for criticism from some quarters, but I feel bad for him. He must have tremendous and unimaginable guilt. Very few of us will ever be in a position where our one decision or hesitation results in this. The blame can still only be with one person.

  3. #3

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    This guy will probably be in for criticism from some quarters, but I feel bad for him. He must have tremendous and unimaginable guilt. Very few of us will ever be in a position where our one decision or hesitation results in this. The blame can still only be with one person.
    Indeed.

    He was 18, so inexperienced at this. I wonder what training he had, if any? He must have had grounds for doubt about Abedi's behaviour otherwise he surely wouldn't have thought the way he did. Did anyone else in security see Abedi? Did they have similar doubts? I'd also find it slightly alarming if this relatively inexperienced youngster was on his own monitoring an area.

    There are undoubtedly other questions to come out of this. Sadly, that utter wankstain Farage has come out and wrongly said it was an example of political correctness. What an opportunist dickhead he really is.

  4. #4

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    This guy will probably be in for criticism from some quarters, but I feel bad for him. He must have tremendous and unimaginable guilt. Very few of us will ever be in a position where our one decision or hesitation results in this. The blame can still only be with one person.
    Feel for the guy. His training probably involved being told to make sure people dont block doorways and to know where to direct people to the toilets.
    Whilst he was on the ground there have been so many cctv clips of Abedi, so who was monitoring that?

  5. #5

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    Indeed.

    He was 18, so inexperienced at this. I wonder what training he had, if any? He must have had grounds for doubt about Abedi's behaviour otherwise he surely wouldn't have thought the way he did. Did anyone else in security see Abedi? Did they have similar doubts? I'd also find it slightly alarming if this relatively inexperienced youngster was on his own monitoring an area.

    There are undoubtedly other questions to come out of this. Sadly, that utter wankstain Farage has come out and wrongly said it was an example of political correctness. What an opportunist dickhead he really is.
    I feel for the guy, and canít imagine the guilt he will be feeling, but what better example of political correctness do you need,, when he was wary of acting on his Gut feeling and suspicion, in fear of being labelled racist?

  6. #6

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    I feel for the guy, and canít imagine the guilt he will be feeling, but what better example of political correctness do you need,, when he was wary of acting on his Gut feeling and suspicion, in fear of being labelled racist?
    Was he? Is this a fact?

  7. #7

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    I feel for the guy, and canít imagine the guilt he will be feeling, but what better example of political correctness do you need,, when he was wary of acting on his Gut feeling and suspicion, in fear of being labelled racist?
    Almost too perfect? Was there any interview of him at the time? Who knows how he was feeling but over the past ten years, in the wider Manchester area, there have been dozens of news stories about not taking action for fear of being labeled racist so people will be sympathetic to that idea, especially this year where things have been polarised further, but also that sort of behaviour (the dangers of not acting, how you can take action in a safe way) will have been discussed thoroughly.

    What better example of poor training practice do you need than an 18 year old being presented with an issue, not knowing what to do and not taking it to someone more senior?

  8. #8

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    I wonder what security is there for if it's not to question suspicious characters? The security officer might be young but that is no excuse for not questioning an individual who is sweating, fidgety and carrying a heavy rucksack. I don't think poor training, or inexperience is an excuse for not questioning any individual who is behaving suspiciously. Surely common sense should have at the very least led the 18 year old security officer to ask his supervisor for advice.

  9. #9

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Same stuff that effected the Rotherham ,Rochdale, child sexual exploitation ,must be tough for police as you tread that line of racism for case and investigation and unwarranted force and prostituting the guilty ,like all societies the real criminal will hide behind that barrier .

  10. #10

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    The poor lad is being hung out to dry.
    At eighteen still shitting yellow ffs.
    I wonder what kind of training, if any, he had.
    He was on little more than £4 an hour!

    Security at any pop venue needs the same vigilance as a football match.
    No doubt it all comes down to finance.

    The lad himself will be suing in a few years on mental health grounds.

  11. #11

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    I wonder what security is there for if it's not to question suspicious characters? The security officer might be young but that is no excuse for not questioning an individual who is sweating, fidgety and carrying a heavy rucksack. I don't think poor training, or inexperience is an excuse for not questioning any individual who is behaving suspiciously. Surely common sense should have at the very least led the 18 year old security officer to ask his supervisor for advice.
    If poor training is no excuse, then what's the point in training at all. Management can save money.

    I still think there's only one person to blame, but I notice that the finger is being pointed at the bottom of the food chain. Responsibility also lies with the security firm if we must apportion blame elsewhere.

  12. #12

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Seems a convenient excuse and heís had a fair time to think it up. On the other hand, I donít blame him for not wanting hassle on his wages.

  13. #13

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    Was he? Is this a fact?
    Itís what he said in the article the OP posted.
    Do you know that it isnít fact?

  14. #14

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Itís what he said in the article the OP posted.
    Do you know that it isnít fact?
    He could be making it up ?

    He might actually be a racist

  15. #15

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by William Treseder View Post
    Do you know that it isnít fact?
    No and I have claimed to. But you seemed to strongly suggest it was a fact when it was merely a claim from the individual concerned. Having seen several news reports which featured clips of him give his evidence, having watched CCTV footage of him on the night and having considered the inconsistencies in his story, I don't believe him for a second.

  16. #16

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Ive seen a fair bit of this inquiry; it's streamed daily on youtube. Ive no doubt this kid has some significant guilt and wrongly so in my opinion. If he had approached Abedi the likelihood is he would be dead now as he wouldve detonated there and then. He was never going to allow himself to be arrested and at this point was already in a crowded foyer.

    However this whole didnt want to be deemed a racist is a little convenient IMO and is naturally a dream of a headline for a newspaper.

    The security guard mentioned made multiple vivid statements in the aftermath where he significantly reduced the time between being alerted to Abedi's presence and detonation of the bomb. He indicated that he had seen the bomb go off but hadn't. He suggested that there was mere seconds between him being informed of Abedi's position and detonation. The truth was that after not being able to originally get through on the radio he left the area and went some 200 yards away and remained there until his detonation which was
    5/6 minutes later. He's on CCTV being relatively in his words "care-free / in a good mood" and 'pretending to be an aeroplane' as he approached his mate/colleague.

    Without doubt there are some significant failings and the fact Abedi was allowed to hang around in an at times deserted area without questioning; despite being unable to walk properly due to the weight of his bomb. But these can't be placed on a kid alone who clearly didnt have sufficient training. That doesnt mean his claim that the reason he didnt do anything because he didnt want to be seen as a racist is true though.

  17. #17

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    I wonder what security is there for if it's not to question suspicious characters? The security officer might be young but that is no excuse for not questioning an individual who is sweating, fidgety and carrying a heavy rucksack. I don't think poor training, or inexperience is an excuse for not questioning any individual who is behaving suspiciously. Surely common sense should have at the very least led the 18 year old security officer to ask his supervisor for advice.
    Within security guard 4 day training there is a section on CT and it relates to suspicious behaviour etc.

    I was under the impression he was a steward not a guard and had done some e-learning the night before.

    Within the other guards testimony I think they've alluded to not sitting the training and only paying and sitting the exams. The training company's should be the ones feeling guilty along with those who shorted the system.

  18. #18

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by Vindec View Post
    I wonder what security is there for if it's not to question suspicious characters? The security officer might be young but that is no excuse for not questioning an individual who is sweating, fidgety and carrying a heavy rucksack. I don't think poor training, or inexperience is an excuse for not questioning any individual who is behaving suspiciously. Surely common sense should have at the very least led the 18 year old security officer to ask his supervisor for advice.
    Sorry I don't agree at all. I would never expect "security" at one of these events to be dealing with a potential terrorist plot. They're there to keep the exits clear, eject anyone being unruly and that sort of thing, not question anyone they find suspicious.

    Most people would have acted in exactly the same way, especially at the age of 18, I don't blame that guy at all.

  19. #19

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    Sorry I don't agree at all. I would never expect "security" at one of these events to be dealing with a potential terrorist plot. They're there to keep the exits clear, eject anyone being unruly and that sort of thing, not question anyone they find suspicious.
    .
    Who's role is it then?

  20. #20

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman View Post
    Who's role is it then?
    The police, MI5, not some 18 year old kid doing some temporary work.

    Even if he had been suspicious to approach the guy, what could he have done anyway?

  21. #21

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman View Post
    Who's role is it then?
    Mi5, Mi6? Any other government intellignece agency?

    Are poeple really expecting people on minimum wage and no training to identify terrorists? And then are they expected to tackle the terrorist themselves?

    And what difference would it have really made? How do you stop a suicide bomber? Unless these sorts of incidents are getting tracked by anti terrorist police prior to the incident (which they usually are) how do you stop them?

  22. #22

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Mi5, Mi6? Any other government intellignece agency?

    Are poeple really expecting people on minimum wage and no training to identify terrorists? And then are they expected to tackle the terrorist themselves?

    And what difference would it have really made? How do you stop a suicide bomber? Unless these sorts of incidents are getting tracked by anti terrorist police prior to the incident (which they usually are) how do you stop them?
    I suppose this a reply to RJK too.

    Policing levels have been cut drastically over the last decade, there is no way you'll see large police presence at events anymore as they can't afford it. Large public gatherings are a terrorist target but many events are now police free.

    It would have made no difference the terrorist was letting the bomb off anyway.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't but the reality is police and agencies don't have the resource.

  23. #23

    Re: Manchester Arena Inquiry: Security 'did not approach bomber over racism fears'

    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    No and I have claimed to. But you seemed to strongly suggest it was a fact when it was merely a claim from the individual concerned. Having seen several news reports which featured clips of him give his evidence, having watched CCTV footage of him on the night and having considered the inconsistencies in his story, I don't believe him for a second.
    I didnít ďstronglyĒ suggest anything. Iím going on what the guy said. If heís lying, then thats another matter. Put your wig back on.

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