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Thread: Cultural Appropriation

  1. #1

    Cultural Appropriation


  2. #2

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    What's your view on this?

  3. #3

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Would UB40 be a thing now, given that most of them were white.
    It's nonsense

  4. #4

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    There are posters of colour/black posters on here so perhaps they should be given the space to speak first.

    My initial impression is that there's going to be a range of responses to this and some I find myself agreeing with (Sheryl Nwosu's) and some which I definitely don't (London Hughes).

  5. #5

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    There are posters of colour/black posters on here so perhaps they should be given the space to speak first.

    My initial impression is that there's going to be a range of responses to this and some I find myself agreeing with (Sheryl Nwosu's) and some which I definitely don't (London Hughes).
    Why can't anyone comment first, or have I been whooshed?

  6. #6

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Flip this around and say there was a disagreement that a black man or woman couldn't present a show on say classical music. Would that be wrong?

    I think positions like this should be filled by those most qualified and talented to do so, regardless of skin colour or background.
    Not sure Cheryl Cole meets the qualified and talented label but still...

  7. #7

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    It's a nonsense.

    Get the feeling some would also be unhappy if they said only a black person can host this rnb show.

  8. #8

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Quote Originally Posted by surge View Post
    There are posters of colour/black posters on here so perhaps they should be given the space to speak first.

    My initial impression is that there's going to be a range of responses to this and some I find myself agreeing with (Sheryl Nwosu's) and some which I definitely don't (London Hughes).
    As a person of non colour ,I feel the world has gone mad

  9. #9

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger View Post
    It's a nonsense.

    Get the feeling some would also be unhappy if they said only a black person can host this rnb show.
    Exactly this.

    You can't please everybody.
    This example with Cheryl Cole you have most people who want equality while others want to be able to celebrate our differences so there is a cross over there for starters. I'm not sure how the two can coexist without some friction.
    You then get all of the other arguments thrown into the mix.

    People seem to want to be offended in this day and age and seek out reasons to feel that way. Cheryl Cole got the gig, so what.

  10. #10

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Quote Originally Posted by blue lewj View Post
    Exactly this.

    You can't please everybody.
    This example with Cheryl Cole then you have most people who want equality while others want to be able to celebrate our differences so there is a cross over there for starters.
    You then get all of the other arguments thrown into the mix.

    People seem to want to be offended in this day and age and seek out reasons to feel that way. Cheryl Cole got the gig, so what.
    The argument against positive discrimination is that it should always be the best person for the job.

    She isnít even the best person for the job

  11. #11

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    The argument against positive discrimination is that it should always be the best person for the job.

    She isnít even the best person for the job
    I'm entitled to agree but many are simply saying she should be excluded because she is white.

    It is wrong whether it is black people saying a white person can't do a certain job or vice versa.

  12. #12

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Argue that she's crap, fair enough.

    But that is a separate argument in my eyes.

  13. #13

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    I know the BBC have not brought up the race issue here (many that have commented on it within the article have) but if this was simply a 'Cheryl Cole is not the right person because she isn't talented enough' article does it get as many clicks?

    It seems we have to shoehorn race into almost every argument that we can these days. Should the position be exclusively for black people? No. It should have been given to the most deserving though definitely.

  14. #14

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Quote Originally Posted by blue lewj View Post
    Exactly this.

    You can't please everybody.
    This example with Cheryl Cole you have most people who want equality while others want to be able to celebrate our differences so there is a cross over there for starters. I'm not sure how the two can coexist without some friction.
    You then get all of the other arguments thrown into the mix.

    People seem to want to be offended in this day and age and seek out reasons to feel that way. Cheryl Cole got the gig, so what.
    You could argue this is an attack on Cheryl Cole's colour and being .

  15. #15

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Quote Originally Posted by life on mars View Post
    You could argue this is an attack on Cheryl Cole's colour and being .
    You could.

    I'm not sure if they're saying she isn't good enough it couldn't just stay at that though.
    Why does her being white have to be a factor?
    White people can like R'n'B and have opinions on it too.

  16. #16

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Quote Originally Posted by blue lewj View Post

    I think positions like this should be filled by those most qualified and talented to do so, regardless of skin colour or background.
    But they're often not filled by those most qualified and talented to do so, historically with a strong bias towards white people. Which is kinda the point people are making regarding this case.

  17. #17

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    I've got no doubt that there are many instances of cultural appropriation and it has a damaging effect on the livelihoods and culture of minority groups.

    I think part of the issue is with the internet these days people's culture is changing faster than ever.

    I am vaguely aware of numbers of young people in the UK and USA with a genuine interests in Korean pop groups. Not my cup of tea, but each to their own.
    If they grow up listening to k-pop, then some of them start to make their own music - if they do it in the style of a korean artist - or even with some Korean lyrics - is that cultural appropriation ? or is that what their culture now IS? should they instead make a different style of music they have no knowledge of or interest in?

    I think if everyone was forced to "stay in their own lane" so to speak it would be even more damaging than the alternative.

    As for Cheryl Cole - it does seem as though she's perhaps not the ideal choice for this podcast. I can definitely understand the frustration black artists must have when this sort of thing goes on.
    On the other hand she is REALLY famous - she's not got the gig because she knows the most about R&B out of any potential presenter, but because she's a huge name, and more people will probably listen to it with her name on it. If that ends up getting people interested in R&B who wouldn't otherwise have listened then it might not be all bad.

    As a middle aged white guy in the UK it is pretty hard to think of an example that is anything like the same though.

  18. #18

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Quote Originally Posted by delmbox View Post
    But they're often not filled by those most qualified and talented to do so, historically with a strong bias towards white people. Which is kinda the point people are making regarding this case.
    I'm not sure she has got the gig based purely on that though. I think she has it because it will get the most numbers.

    Talent seems to get trumped by 'popular' people in modern culture sadly. Look at reality TV for example. Talent isn't what you'd associate with most of them.

  19. #19

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rjk View Post
    I've got no doubt that there are many instances of cultural appropriation and it has a damaging effect on the livelihoods and culture of minority groups.

    I think part of the issue is with the internet these days people's culture is changing faster than ever.

    I am vaguely aware of numbers of young people in the UK and USA with a genuine interests in Korean pop groups. Not my cup of tea, but each to their own.
    If they grow up listening to k-pop, then some of them start to make their own music - if they do it in the style of a korean artist - or even with some Korean lyrics - is that cultural appropriation ? or is that what their culture now IS? should they instead make a different style of music they have no knowledge of or interest in?

    I think if everyone was forced to "stay in their own lane" so to speak it would be even more damaging than the alternative.

    As for Cheryl Cole - it does seem as though she's perhaps not the ideal choice for this podcast. I can definitely understand the frustration black artists must have when this sort of thing goes on.
    On the other hand she is REALLY famous - she's not got the gig because she knows the most about R&B out of any potential presenter, but because she's a huge name, and more people will probably listen to it with her name on it. If that ends up getting people interested in R&B who wouldn't otherwise have listened then it might not be all bad.

    As a middle aged white guy in the UK it is pretty hard to think of an example that is anything like the same though.
    Nicely put.

  20. #20

    Re: Cultural Appropriation

    I can see how it's an issue sometimes. You wouldnt want a history of Wales to be narrated by Benedict Cumberbatch or something, so I can understand the need to be sensitive.

    That said, I think generally the issue is well overblown, and is pretty divisive. If we want to live in a successful multicultural society, then we accept that these different cultural traditions will (And should!) merge.

    Its absurd, stereotypical and borderline racist to say only black people should comment on certain things, or should like certain music, or should stay away from certain topics. It's ridiculous. It also says it's "denying work to people of colour etc" but every survey i have seen in recent years shows that non white British faces and voices are overrepresented. Thats no bad thing at all, but we cant keep chipping away at things on the basis of skin colour.

    Another issue is the inconsistencies. The very same people saying that Cheryl Cole SHOULDNT voice a programme on RnB music will be the same people saying a black actress SHOULD play Anne Boleyn, as happened recently. Whats the rules here?!

    There is a good organisation called 'dont divide us' which pushes against both this kind of division (broadly from the left) and the more traditional kind of division (broadly from the right).

    Identity politics is pretty poisonous for society in my opinion and we should focus less on it. If we want a cohesive society, we need to focus more on what unites us rather than implying that the very thing we had zero control over should be our defining characteristic

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