127 is the answer

[JamesWales]

The only political state that aims for autarky is North Korea. Self sustainment isn't all you wish it to be.

I also wonder if these higher wages were at the forefront of yours and every other pro-Brexit supporters thinking 12 months ago? for me its all about changing the narrative now the impact of Brexit is being felt. No-one gave a **** about the lorry drivers back in 2000 when we last had a strike, but now all of a sudden its only right they have a pay rise. utter bollocks.

Firstly, yes, improving wages and living standards for poorer communities generally was a part of my reasoning for voting leave. Not the biggest reason, but a part. Although I should add, if i had 100 votes, 45 of them would have been for Remain, so it's a balanced argument. But yes, it was. I don't agree in a totally laissez faire, deregulated economic model such as the single market.

Secondly, I don't think arguing for investment in training, apprenticeships, increases in wages or conditions makes someone an advocate for North Korea. No one advocates 'total self sufficiency' it's about 'greater self sufficiency' and that, I would argue is a good thing. It certainly is rarely a bad thing especially when we have a crisis of disaffected youth, communities and training. It makes sense to try and fill some of these gaps closer to home really.

Thirdly, I didn't pay any attention to the 2000 lorry strike as I would have been getting pissed in the student union and chatting up girls but I probably would have had sympathy for their concerns if not all of their actions.

The point is, what is your answer? Rewind history? Open up visas? We've just done that, there is a shortage in the EU too, and a global pandemic on.

The long term sustainable route to this is to make critical jobs like HGV drivers valued, trained and respected properly and make it a viable line of work for people.

Hopefully that happens and I don't see why anyone would oppose that ambition.

[lardy]

Firstly, yes, improving wages and living standards for poorer communities generally was a part of my reasoning for voting leave. Not the biggest reason, but a part. Although I should add, if i had 100 votes, 45 of them would have been for Remain, so it's a balanced argument. But yes, it was. I don't agree in a totally laissez faire, deregulated economic model such as the single market.

Secondly, I don't think arguing for investment in training, apprenticeships, increases in wages or conditions makes someone an advocate for North Korea. No one advocates 'total self sufficiency' it's about 'greater self sufficiency' and that, I would argue is a good thing. It certainly is rarely a bad thing especially when we have a crisis of disaffected youth, communities and training. It makes sense to try and fill some of these gaps closer to home really.

Thirdly, I didn't pay any attention to the 2000 lorry strike as I would have been getting pissed in the student union and chatting up girls but I probably would have had sympathy for their concerns if not all of their actions.

The point is, what is your answer? Rewind history? Open up visas? We've just done that, there is a shortage in the EU too, and a global pandemic on.

The long term sustainable route to this is to make critical jobs like HGV drivers valued, trained and respected properly and make it a viable line of work for people.

Hopefully that happens and I don't see why anyone would oppose that ambition.

A couple of weeks ago, I guessed your age as 40-43. Looks like I was pretty much spot on!

[JamesWales]

A couple of weeks ago, I guessed your age as 40-43. Looks like I was pretty much spot on!

[Feedback]

Firstly, yes, improving wages and living standards for poorer communities generally was a part of my reasoning for voting leave. Not the biggest reason, but a part. Although I should add, if i had 100 votes, 45 of them would have been for Remain, so it's a balanced argument. But yes, it was. I don't agree in a totally laissez faire, deregulated economic model such as the single market.

time will tell but I think leaving the worlds largest free market so we can sell widgets to Micronesia tariff free isn't going to have positive impact you think it will.

Secondly, I don't think arguing for investment in training, apprenticeships, increases in wages or conditions makes someone an advocate for North Korea. No one advocates 'total self sufficiency' it's about 'greater self sufficiency' and that, I would argue is a good thing. It certainly is rarely a bad thing especially when we have a crisis of disaffected youth, communities and training. It makes sense to try and fill some of these gaps closer to home really.

I was making a point that we live in a global economy and looking to ensure that we can provide all of what we need from within these shores is very American in thinking. We import most of our food, fuel, energy, and building materials. If we try and become any more self-sufficient then we'll fail. The reason we left the EU is so we could forge our own trade deals. Great, we can buy kraft cheese to put on our burgers duty free. but the big purchases like German and French cars, lets whack 10% on to the cost. do you understand why we are seeing inflation at 4% ?

Thirdly, I didn't pay any attention to the 2000 lorry strike as I would have been getting pissed in the student union and chatting up girls but I probably would have had sympathy for their concerns if not all of their actions.

you would have been the only one, as most people back then were pissed off with the inconvenience.

The point is, what is your answer? Rewind history? Open up visas? We've just done that, there is a shortage in the EU too, and a global pandemic on.

my answer would be to re-join the worlds largest free trade economy and accept that Britannia no longer rules the waves.

The long term sustainable route to this is to make critical jobs like HGV drivers valued, trained and respected properly and make it a viable line of work for people.

Hopefully that happens and I don't see why anyone would oppose that ambition.

[JamesWales]

time will tell but I think leaving the worlds largest free market so we can sell widgets to Micronesia tariff free isn't going to have positive impact you think it will.


I was making a point that we live in a global economy and looking to ensure that we can provide all of what we need from within these shores is very American in thinking. We import most of our food, fuel, energy, and building materials. If we try and become any more self-sufficient then we'll fail. The reason we left the EU is so we could forge our own trade deals. Great, we can buy kraft cheese to put on our burgers duty free. but the big purchases like German and French cars, lets whack 10% on to the cost. do you understand why we are seeing inflation at 4% ?


you would have been the only one, as most people back then were pissed off with the inconvenience.


my answer would be to re-join the worlds largest free trade economy and accept that Britannia no longer rules the waves.

I'm not sure why you mention Micronesia, but free trade deals are generally a good thing, I agree. But you don't need strings attached to them.

Yes, we live in a global economy, but the economy is subservient to societies needs. It's no use advocating any impact by saying "well, it's the global economy!" If we can make it work better, we should. I see no reason to fear countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA, South Korea et al.

No one says 'Britannia Rules the Waves' Why do people always litter their arguments with such absurdities. It's like me saying that anyone who is pro-EU believes in the EUSSR or wants a single european state etc. It's just nonsense.

We could have re-joined the single market. Teresa May's deal pretty much advocated that, but people were too busy calling everyone racist and demanding a new referendum to accept it, so we are where we are.

There's loads of reasons why inflation is rising, but German inflation is at 29 year high and the UK's inflation rate is below the eurozone as a whole, so good luck arguing that it's because we left the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/e1a5ce6e-...1-d15a094a4755
https://tradingeconomics.com/country...ntinent=europe

[az city]

I'm not sure why you mention Micronesia, but free trade deals are generally a good thing, I agree. But you don't need strings attached to them.

Yes, we live in a global economy, but the economy is subservient to societies needs. It's no use advocating any impact by saying "well, it's the global economy!" If we can make it work better, we should. I see no reason to fear countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA, South Korea et al.

No one says 'Britannia Rules the Waves' Why do people always litter their arguments with such absurdities. It's like me saying that anyone who is pro-EU believes in the EUSSR or wants a single european state etc. It's just nonsense.

We could have re-joined the single market. Teresa May's deal pretty much advocated that, but people were too busy calling everyone racist and demanding a new referendum to accept it, so we are where we are.

There's loads of reasons why inflation is rising, but German inflation is at 29 year high and the UK's inflation rate is below the eurozone as a whole, so good luck arguing that it's because we left the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/e1a5ce6e-...1-d15a094a4755
https://tradingeconomics.com/country...ntinent=europe

Have a word with yourself. Feedy’s owned you here for your lack of consistency. You can’t argue for self sufficiency and for more free trade. As I thought, you don’t understand the principle of comparative advantage.

[JamesWales]

Have a word with yourself. Feedy’s owned you here for your lack of consistency. You can’t argue for self sufficiency and for more free trade. As I thought, you don’t understand the principle of comparative advantage.

No he hasn't. And yes, you can. You can argue for a more balanced economy and trade deals that do not come with strings attached in terms of non economic matters. Very few free trade deals require the almost total absence of cross-border deregulation that the single market does.

[Rjk]

No he hasn't. And yes, you can. You can argue for a more balanced economy and trade deals that do not come with strings attached in terms of non economic matters. Very few free trade deals require the almost total absence of cross-border deregulation that the single market does.

how about food and animal welfare standards?

[Feedback]

how about food and animal welfare standards?

#coughs in american#

[JamesWales]

how about food and animal welfare standards?

I don't anticipate any lowering of food standards. Animal welfare is anything will be enhanced if things like live animal exports are outlawed.

Not direcltly related, but in terms of land management, I think the proposed replacement to CAP is much better.

[Feedback]

No he hasn't. And yes, you can. You can argue for a more balanced economy and trade deals that do not come with strings attached in terms of non economic matters. Very few free trade deals require the almost total absence of cross-border deregulation that the single market does.

what strings did access to the EU come with?

as for deregulation, you need to make your mind up. Once of the principle reasons given by the pro-Brexit movement was removing purported unaccountable bureaucrats from our decision making process, thus freeing us from the red-tape mad Brussels bureaucracy. Bendy bananas etc etc....

so if you don't mind, please confirm if the EU was no regulation, or just red tape?

NB the EU Commission was akin to the UK civil service, and is appointed by the EU Parliament much in the way the UK civil service is. Hardly unaccountable as its appointed is made by those we directly elect to represent us.

[JamesWales]

what strings did access to the EU come with?

as for deregulation, you need to make your mind up. Once of the principle reasons given by the pro-Brexit movement was removing purported unaccountable bureaucrats from our decision making process, thus freeing us from the red-tape mad Brussels bureaucracy. Bendy bananas etc etc....

so if you don't mind, please confirm if the EU was no regulation, or just red tape?

NB the EU Commission was akin to the UK civil service, and is appointed by the EU Parliament much in the way the UK civil service is. Hardly unaccountable as its appointed is made by those we directly elect to represent us.

Strings attached include rules on things such as procurement, immigration, state subsidies, primacy of national law, EU contributions of circa £10bn a year etc.

I don't argue that the EU burdened business with red tape, nor should there be a bonfire of regulations, but it required us to view our economy as one; from Bridgend to Bucharest, with zero protections within that - that was deregulation element.

In terms of the regulation element, it actively prevents access to the fastest growing global economies. So it's laissez-faire internallly and protectionist externally.

I think countries should be free to make their own decisions better, and I think that is what will happen going forward. In short, we sacrifice a slightly less good deal with the EU, for greater deals globally, whilst regaining controls over levers of our economy.

[az city]

No he hasn't. And yes, you can. You can argue for a more balanced economy and trade deals that do not come with strings attached in terms of non economic matters. Very few free trade deals require the almost total absence of cross-border deregulation that the single market does.

A “free trade deal” would entail no barriers whether tariff or non-tariff. You’re arguing for implicit or explicit non-tariff barriers which means it wouldn’t be free trade. It’s inconsistent to simultaneously argue for self-sufficiency and (real) free trade.

Here`s a conjecture for you. GB (not NI) will be worse off forever as a result of leaving the EU.

[JamesWales]

A “free trade deal” would entail no barriers whether tariff or non-tariff. You’re arguing for implicit or explicit non-tariff barriers which means it wouldn’t be free trade. It’s inconsistent to simultaneously argue for self-sufficiency and (real) free trade.

Here`s a conjecture for you. GB (not NI) will be worse off forever as a result of leaving the EU.

I disagree with you. Now quantify your prediction, so we can assess it. I'm happy to.

[Feedback]

I'm not sure why you mention Micronesia, but free trade deals are generally a good thing, I agree. But you don't need strings attached to them.

quite simple really, why bother selling on your doorstep in the worlds largest economy when you can sell to someone else on the other side of the planet.

Yes, we live in a global economy, but the economy is subservient to societies needs. It's no use advocating any impact by saying "well, it's the global economy!" If we can make it work better, we should. I see no reason to fear countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA, South Korea et al.

No one fears these countries, it just makes no sense to look for trade deals with South Korea at the expense of a trade deal with Germany.

No one says 'Britannia Rules the Waves' Why do people always litter their arguments with such absurdities. It's like me saying that anyone who is pro-EU believes in the EUSSR or wants a single european state etc. It's just nonsense.

the only only absurdity is Brexit and the £350m per week for the NHS. The point being made was that some people think the UK requires world power and prestige, and we do not.

We could have re-joined the single market. Teresa May's deal pretty much advocated that, but people were too busy calling everyone racist and demanding a new referendum to accept it, so we are where we are.

There's loads of reasons why inflation is rising, but German inflation is at 29 year high and the UK's inflation rate is below the eurozone as a whole, so good luck arguing that it's because we left the EU.

non sequitur. Even if we remained in the EU we were outside the Eurozone so we would not have been impacted by eurozone based inflation. where we are being impacted is the additional costs incurred on importing the vast majority of what we consume, given its all made in the EU.

I for one am not looking forward to buying American pony cars instead of the German and Italian Gts that are so much more sexier.

[JamesWales]

quite simple really, why bother selling on your doorstep in the worlds largest economy when you can sell to someone else on the other side of the planet.

No one fears these countries, it just makes no sense to look for trade deals with South Korea at the expense of a trade deal with Germany.

the only only absurdity is Brexit and the £350m per week for the NHS. The point being made was that some people think the UK requires world power and prestige, and we do not.

non sequitur. Even if we remained in the EU we were outside the Eurozone so we would not have been impacted by eurozone based inflation. where we are being impacted is the additional costs incurred on importing the vast majority of what we consume, given its all made in the EU.

I for one am not looking forward to buying American pony cars instead of the German and Italian Gts that are so much more sexier.

1 - No one advocates less trade with Germany.
2- No one advocates trade with South Korea for trade with Germany. Quite the opposite; the EU trade deal actively prevents a bilateral deal with, for example, South Korea.
3 - The NHS is actually receiving far more than £350m a week even accounting for inflation. It wasn't a direct transfer of EU contributions to the NHS, but the commitment was met. I agree, the UK doesn't need more prestige.
4 - Currect me if I'm weong, but you are claiming inflation is caused by Brexit, when our inflation rate is lower than the eurozone, so your argument is somewhat weak.

[Feedback]

1 - No one advocates less trade with Germany.

but that is the unintended consequence of leaving the EU, as we have to follow WHO rules, adding more costs to trade with the Germans.

2- No one advocates trade with South Korea for trade with Germany. Quite the opposite; the EU trade deal actively prevents a bilateral deal with, for example, South Korea.

no it does not. The EU has a trade deal with South Korea. The EU negotiates on behalf of all member states. do you advocate Wales, N Ireland, Scotland and England all negotiate their own deals, or do you think we should negotiate as one political block getting a better deal overall?

3 - The NHS is actually receiving far more than £350m a week even accounting for inflation. It wasn't a direct transfer of EU contributions to the NHS, but the commitment was met. I agree, the UK doesn't need more prestige.

why the straight face when you say this?

4 - Currect me if I'm weong, but you are claiming inflation is caused by Brexit, when our inflation rate is lower than the eurozone, so your argument is somewhat weak.

I am saying that inflation was always going to happen because we import a large part of what we consume, which primarily came from the EU. Goods which previously did not have VAT or duty now do so.

[az city]

Firstly, yes, improving wages and living standards for poorer communities generally was a part of my reasoning for voting leave. Not the biggest reason, but a part. Although I should add, if i had 100 votes, 45 of them would have been for Remain, so it's a balanced argument. But yes, it was. I don't agree in a totally laissez faire, deregulated economic model such as the single market.

Secondly, I don't think arguing for investment in training, apprenticeships, increases in wages or conditions makes someone an advocate for North Korea. No one advocates 'total self sufficiency' it's about 'greater self sufficiency' and that, I would argue is a good thing. It certainly is rarely a bad thing especially when we have a crisis of disaffected youth, communities and training. It makes sense to try and fill some of these gaps closer to home really.

Thirdly, I didn't pay any attention to the 2000 lorry strike as I would have been getting pissed in the student union and chatting up girls but I probably would have had sympathy for their concerns if not all of their actions.

The point is, what is your answer? Rewind history? Open up visas? We've just done that, there is a shortage in the EU too, and a global pandemic on.

The long term sustainable route to this is to make critical jobs like HGV drivers valued, trained and respected properly and make it a viable line of work for people.

Hopefully that happens and I don't see why anyone would oppose that ambition.

When you were studying your “Economics-related” course, did you not understand the basic principle of comparative advantage?

[JamesWales]

When you were studying your “Economics-related” course, did you not understand the basic principle of comparative advantage?

Hello again! I'm still waiting for you to make some long term predictions on the future of the UK economy, so that your angry dismissals can be judged.

[az city]

Hello again! I'm still waiting for you to make some long term predictions on the future of the UK economy, so that your angry dismissals can be judged.

I’m not angry. I actually pity you.

BTW I have a lot to do so I don’t spend every waking minute making up wild conjectures based on no theory for message boards.

I see you didn’t answer the question, so I’m going with “no” as your response?

Are you in paid employment? What is it? You seem to have a lot of free time to post idle bollocks on here.

[JamesWales]

I’m not angry. I actually pity you.

BTW I have a lot to do so I don’t spend every waking minute making up wild conjectures based on no theory for message boards.

I see you didn’t answer the question, so I’m going with “no” as your response?

Are you in paid employment? What is it? You seem to have a lot of free time to post idle bollocks on here.

If only arrogance could provide power then the global gas price crisis would be over pretty quickly!

I actually made predictions about the future of the UK economy - predictions that can be assessed. You haven't, you've just shouted out a few slogans and not put anything up to be judged against, and when called out on it, you hand pick some other academic theory whilst ignoring the current reality. That speaks for itself.

Have a nice day and enjoy the Arizona sun.

[az city]

If only arrogance could provide power then the global gas price crisis would be over pretty quickly!

I actually made predictions about the future of the UK economy - predictions that can be assessed. You haven't, you've just shouted out a few slogans and not put anything up to be judged against, and when called out on it, you hand pick some other academic theory whilst ignoring the current reality. That speaks for itself.

Have a nice day and enjoy the Arizona sun.

That’s laughable. The benefits of (free) international trade and the principle of comparative are the first things any student of Economics would come across.

Don’t conjecture any more. You’re posting bollocks.

[JamesWales]

That’s laughable. The benefits of (free) international trade and the principle of comparative are the first things any student of Economics would come across.

Don’t conjecture any more. You’re posting bollocks.

Again, more insults, more theory, no facts. Put up some sound predictions so they can be judged. I'm happy to make some clear, quantifiable predictions on inflation, the £, unemployment, wages, GDP etc. I've done that already, you claimed it was bollocks, but didn't put any prediction up.

Academics often get accused of dealing in theory not reality. I have argued that was unfair, but perhaps I was wrong?

[splott parker]

Ah, the poor old lorry drivers who wanted public sympathy in 2000 when 16 years previous they were ploughing through picket lines and counting the dosh.